How to address dulled Color when dragging into a new file

[Laura_Lippay2633]

Hello - 

I have an art print in a file with RGB Color, 8 bits per channel, 350 ppi.

When I drag it into a print layout file (for printing multiples on one sheet). The color is flat and the depth disappears. The print layout file is CMYK color, 16 bits per channel and 350 ppi.

I'm not sure how to keep the brilliance and depth of the originals I'm dragging into this print ayout file, or why it makes files I drag into it more dull?

[Laura_Lippay2633]

They're both .tif files by the way

[D Fosse · Accepted solution]

The color is out of gamut and cannot be reproduced in the target CMYK profile.

Generally, this can happen if one of the files lacks an embedded color profile. But in this case, the explanation is simpler, it's just out of gamut.

CMYK is based on actual, physical offset print processes, using physical inks on certain paper stock, on an offset press calibrated to a certain standard. There are limits to how much saturation you get from ink on paper.

Every offset printing process has a corresponding CMYK profile that characterizes that particular process. That's why you have the long list of CMYK profiles. There is no such thing as a generic "standard" CMYK. You need to know which profile to use. The Photoshop default just happens to be US Web Coated (SWOP), but chances are it's not the right one, and it certainly won't be if you're outside North or South America. Always ask the printer.

The gamut of a color space is a hard limit. There is nothing you can do about that, except soft proof and compensate as best you can.

[NB, colourmanagement]

@Laura_Lippay2633 as @D Fosse writes the selection of CMYK profile to use as destination in your conversions (from RGB) is a vital part of getting print work to appear as you expect it to. 

Once the correct CMYK ICC profile to use has been confirmed by your printer, then, rather than a simple blind conversion,  I'd attempt to convert within Photoshop - using the various tools available to you, to perhaps pre- conversion reign in excessive gamut. 

View/ gamut warning will help you 

A note on Photoshop's "GAMUT WARNING" option

Steve Upton, color management guru and owner of Chromix wrote

"It would be wise to clarify one thing.

The "Gamut Warning" function in Photoshop, it turns out, is a delta-E warning (hence my quotes around Gamut Warning).

So, if a profile has a significant color shift that is in gamut, it could show up in the "Gamut Warning" function."

So. Gamut Warning can show you it's warning overlay in areas of colour that aren't actually beyond the destination gamut, that said it’s a pretty useful tool. Colorthink Pro, programmed by Steve Upton has a far more sophisticated out of gamut feature. 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
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[davescm · Accepted solution]

Are you sending your layout file to a printing company or just printing directly to a photo ink jet printer. If the latter, do not convert to CMYK. Many ink jets contain additional inks that can print wider than just CMYK. That said, ink on paper will not print all RGB colours.

Dave

[NB, colourmanagement]

@Laura_Lippay2633 - @davescm makes a very good point there

"Are you sending your layout file to a printing company or just printing directly to a photo ink jet printer. If the latter, do not convert to CMYK"

thanks for pointing that out @davescm 

RGB to CMYK an un-neeeded and inadvisable conversion for work sent to any regular inkjet that runs without a RIP*. The standard inkjet printer driver is designed to accept RGB files, if sent CMYK, will convert it back to RGB, then convert to its own ink mix. 

*A software RIP is sometimes needed for inkjet printing, if single colour work - like black only text, needs to print with only black ink, that can’t be achieved through an RGB driver. 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.
Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts.

[Laura_Lippay2633]

Thank you! I did read elsewhere to use Adobe RGB 1998, so I changed the color profile of my files to that. I am printing directly to a Canon Pro 1000. The Photoshop print settings window that comes up when I go to print had:

Color handling: Printer manages colors

Printer profile: sRGB IEC61966-2.1

I read that sRGB doesnt have nearly as many colors as Adobe RGB.

But when I change it to:

Color handling:Photoshop Manages Colors

Printer profile: Adobe RGB (1998)

I get a warning that "No Color Management is not supported... Please use Adobe Color Printer Utility if you need to print with No Color Management".

I dont think I'm trying to do no color management - I'm trying to use what's in the dropdown.

I've just been canceling out of that and printing anyway.

Is there a correct setup there?

[davescm]

The printer profile should not be set to Adobe RGB.  Adobe RGB is a valid document profile that contains a wider range of colours then sRGB so is perfectly valid as a document profile (which tells Photoshop how to interpret the RGB values in your document). Adobe RGB is not a printer profile.
The Printer Profile should be a profile that describes your particular printer, ink and paper combination. This would be supplied by the printer manufacturer, if you are using their recomended papers, or by the paper manufacturer (you can make printer profiles yourself but that adds another level of complexity here). The key is that the printer profile is used by Photoshop to translate the colour values in the document to those required by that particular printer, ink and paper combination, so that the colours print correctly.

Dave

[D Fosse]

Is there a correct setup there?

By @Laura_Lippay2633

There is indeed, and as Dave points out it's not what your screenshot shows.

Here's how it should look:

In this case the paper is from a third-party manufacturer. They provide an icc profile for the paper, and also a setting to use for Media Type in the printer driver.

For a "native" paper (Canon, Epson etc) Media Type will just be the name of the paper.

Oh, and as you can see, printers usually have more than 4 inks - here there's 10. So 4-color CMYK doesn't make any sense. That's just for commercial offset print.