Photoshop CS6 and 4k Display

[leosantare]

Hello,

I know this topic has been discussed in the past but I'm looking for a bit more information. I've had PS CS6 for for about 8 years now and recently got a 75" display with a native resolution of 3840x2160. As most know, there is an major issue with the UI being too small when running in 3840x2160. My display has 59ppi, and I heard that CS6 was made for 96ppi. I understand that there should not be an issue if the displays ppi is under 96ppi. Which in my case it is.

I just want to confirm a few things. Is running CS6 in 1920x1080 my best option? I know there are a lot of scaling methods out there and maybe that is a better option. Whatever my best option is, does it make sense for me to get a professional camera? I have been of the fence about getting a camera for several years now. I've always wanted one but with the CS6 display issue, it might not make any sense. For example, I was looking at the Canon EOS R5.

PLEASE DO NOT MENTION UPGRAGING TO A SUBSCRIPTION! THIS IS NOT AN OPTION AND NEVER WILL BE! I WOULD NEVER DO THAT EVEN IF I WAS DONG PHOTOGRAPHY AS A BUSINESS, WHICH I'M NOT! 

Thank you,

[leosantare]

So, does it make any sense to buy a professional camera when using CS6 on a 4k display? Is running CS6 in 1920x1080 the best option?

[Conrad_C]

Continuing on from my other reply to your original post…Because the issue with CS6 and HiDPI 4K displays is completely unrelated to the camera sensor resolution, it doesn’t matter what camera you use, and there is no reason to avoid a camera with a lot more pixels. People were using cameras of all types and all available resolutions even with older displays.

Mostly, this is because the difference in displays doesn’t affect photographic images nearly as much as it affects type and vector graphics. When an app isn’t aware of HiDPI, the default size of UI and type can become too small, but it’s always been easier to change the magnification of images than of the UI. Also, for photo editing, color and tone accuracy has always been much more important than the display resolution.

A 1920 x 1080 px display reproduces 2.1 megapixels. A 4K display (3840 x 2160 px) can reproduce about 8.3 megapixels (3840 x 2160 = 8,294,400 pixels). But several years ago pro cameras went way past that and now most pro cameras have sensors capturing well above 20 megapixels. But there are no affordable displays that can show 20 megapixels at once. Does that mean no one can use pro cameras on 4K displays because 4K reproduces only 8.3 megapixels? No, a lot of pros edit on 4K displays. So that’s not an issue. (To show a full 20 megapixel image at 1:1, you need a 6K display…like the 6016 x 3384 px of the expensive Apple Pro Display XDR which few people own.)

Pros edit their 24, 36, or 100 megapixel images on their 4K, 2K, etc. displays by using the Fit command when they want to see the whole image on screen. They can view the image at 1:1 or higher to edit in detail, but of course at 1:1 some of the image will be beyond the edge of the display. This is how it always was, and 4K doesn‘t change that.

[Conrad_C]

Since no one’s answered, here are some of the answers.

I've had PS CS6 for for about 8 years now and recently got a 75" display with a native resolution of 3840x2160. As most know, there is an major issue with the UI being too small when running in 3840x2160. My display has 59ppi, and I heard that CS6 was made for 96ppi.

By @leosantare

That isn’t exactly accurate. The real issue is that Photoshop CS6 was coded in era when all displays were at what we now call 1x scale factor (pixel density): How big something looks on screen (especially UI) is locked to its pixel dimensions and never adjusted for the dpi resolution of the screen. This was not much of a problem as long as screens were around 72 to 120 dpi. Things might be a little bigger at a lower resolution or a little smaller on a higher resolution screen, but you could still read everything.

The problems started when displays started being made with far higher dpi resolutions, getting closer to print resolution. You could start having a 4K display (3840 x 2160 px) on a 15-inch laptop screen, which would result in a nice, print-like 294 dpi. But at traditional 1x pixel density, UI looked much smaller than on traditional displays that were around 100 dpi, and that made UI unreadable. For example, a 600 x 400 px button looks a lot smaller because at higher DPI, each pixel is a lot smaller.

The solution was to use the extra pixels the same way they are used in print: Not to shrink a certain pixel dimensions, but to maintain the same real world size and use the extra pixels for finer detail instead. Windows calls this HiDPI, Apple calls this Retina. For example, when a 600 x 400 px vector graphic is shown on a HiDPI/Retina screen, it’s rendered at 2x, using 1200 x 800 pixels — appearing the same size as on an older 1x display, but using 2x as many pixels per dimension for 4x finer detail.

This is analogous to print where you can print the same size photo at 150 dpi, 300 dpi, and 2400 dpi, and the photo stays the same size (doesn’t shrink to become unreadable), it prints at the same size but with more detail.

However, because Photoshop CS6 was coded before HiDPI/Retina was adopted, it doesn’t know how to adjust. I think I have read about workarounds posted in this community, and that is what you want to search for. I don’t remember exactly what they are because I use a Mac, but that’s what you want to search for. I think maybe somebody came up with some scripts or configuration file changes.

All of this is completely unrelated to, and unaffected by, the camera you use. I’ll cover that in the reply to your other question.

[leosantare]

I appreciate your very in depth response and thanks for your help. I did search for methods to help with the CS6 issue on a 4k display, but I couldn't find a straight answer. That is why I came here. It sounds like you are unsure of what is best, so hopefully someone else can confirm this for me.

Right now I run CS6 in 1920x1080 on my 3840x2160 native display. When doing so, I can see things fine. However, as you confirmed there is a big loss of quality when doing this. That is why I asked if it made sense to spend $4k or more on a camera when I will be processing the images in 1920x1080 on a 3840x2160 native display. I understand the camera is has nothing to do with my display or CS6. It sounds like I shouldn't let this issue keep me from getting a professional camera but I just wanted to make sure. 

[davescm]

I've looked through both your threads on this and something that I did not see asked is this. I understand that you process your images on your 4k screen used in 1920x1080px, but what is your final output? Is it print where, for large prints, you will benefit from the higher pixel count and potentially sharper lens on a pro quality camera, or do you just view the final output on that same screen in which case you will be limited to the pixel size you have set. If the latter, then the advantages of higher pixel count camera would be moot. Of course, a pro camera has several other advantages other than just a higher pixel count e.g. lower noise, higher sensitivity ranges (ISO), ability to use a wide range of modern lenses...etc.

One final comment. When you set CS6 to use 1920 x 1080 you are setting both the user interface (menus , panels etc) and the image preview to that restriction. In later versions of Photoshop, the user interface is scaled separately to the image preview so the image can always be displayed at the full capability of the monitor.

Dave 

[Conrad_C]

Right now I run CS6 in 1920x1080 on my 3840x2160 native display. When doing so, I can see things fine. However, as you confirmed there is a big loss of quality when doing this. That is why I asked if it made sense to spend $4k or more on a camera when I will be processing the images in 1920x1080 on a 3840x2160 native display. I understand the camera is has nothing to do with my display or CS6. It sounds like I shouldn't let this issue keep me from getting a professional camera but I just wanted to make sure. 

By @leosantare

For photo editing, the most important thing is how accurate the display reproduces color and tone. That is independent of resolution. If you set a color to Adobe RGB (45, 109, 214) and the display reproduces that precisely, that color is going to be spot on no matter if the display is 1024 x 768 or 6000 x 4000. So in terms of color correction, if you keep that display color-calibrated, resolution won’t stop you from editing photos at a professional level.

What about viewing image details? No problem, just zoom in.

What about previewing print sharpening? Well, the way details appear on a printer depends on what print screening method (halftone, FM…) it uses to render, and there isn’t a good way to simulate those screening methods on a display’s pixel grid. The best way to preview print sharpening is to make test prints on the printer you specifically use, and compare that to what you see on the display you specifically use so that you know what a good sharpening level looks like on your particular combination of display and printer. That method works with what you have.

Sure, editing in CS6 on a 4K display at 1920 x 1080 might not be ideal, but pro photo editing can be done on it.

[leosantare]

Okay, well this is good to know and thanks for your help. I just wanted to make sure it made sense before buying a professional camera. 

The only thing left is to confirm if running CS6 in 1920x1080 is the best method for the UI issue. I know there are some scaling methods in the .exe properties and something with creating a manifest. I tried changing the scaling in the .exe properties but not sure if things got worse or better. I also heard that hacking the registry with the manifest doesn't really help. Running CS6 in 1920x1080 might be the best option but again that's why I'm here.

[leosantare]

Hi Dave,

My final output? I'm not sure I understand. Are you asking what my intentions are with the photos I edit in CS6? If so, they would be for viewing on the same display in the native 3840x2160 resolution and for sharing. I don't see myself printing much at all.

I'm only interested in CS6 and not concerned about any later versions.

[leosantare]

As I mentioned, the only thing left is to confirm if running CS6 in 1920x1080 is the best method for the UI issue. I know there are some scaling methods in the .exe properties and something with creating a manifest. I tried changing the scaling in the .exe properties but not sure if things got worse or better. I also heard that hacking the registry with the manifest doesn't really help. Running CS6 in 1920x1080 might be the best option but again that's why I'm here.

Thanks again