RESOLUTION BUG

Explorer ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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Files with different resolutions, 300 and 72ppi are saved with the same size.

 

If I create 2 files of 1920x1080, 1 with 300ppi and the other with 72ppi.

 

I open any image, from an image bank, with 300ppi and I drag this image into both files, the image is displayed in both as if it were with 300ppi.

 

It's as if the resolution option on creating and saving files is not working.

 

I already formatted my machine and reinstalled everything, the problem remains.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Community Professional , May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022
Yes, they are the same size because that is just a metadata tag that has nothing to do with size. The image 1920x1080 pixels, that's what determines the size, color space, and bit depth being equal. IOW, 1920x1080 at 72 and 300 and 3000 or any value is identical. Work in pixels.  This is old, but nothing has changed since it was written and you need a primer on resolution:  http://digitaldog.net/files/Resolution.pdf

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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Yes, they are the same size because that is just a metadata tag that has nothing to do with size. The image 1920x1080 pixels, that's what determines the size, color space, and bit depth being equal. IOW, 1920x1080 at 72 and 300 and 3000 or any value is identical. Work in pixels. 

This is old, but nothing has changed since it was written and you need a primer on resolution: 

http://digitaldog.net/files/Resolution.pdf


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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Friend, I appreciate your help but I've been using Photoshop for 15 years.

If you drag the same image into a file with 20 resolution and into another with 300 resolution, that image will be displayed at different scales within each project/file, this is obvious, because each file has a different size, 1080x1920 is just the ratio of both.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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No friend, 1080x1920 pixels are just that, when I do as you suggest, they are identical. 

I don't know what you're really doing, maybe record a video.

I make two virgin documents, 1080x1920 pixels tagged at 300, one at 72, and drag one to the other, they are the same size; as they should be; they are both 1080x1920 pixels. 

Sorry, I've only been using Photoshop since 1990 <G>. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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Here's a video link demonstrating the problem.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJkdrYUcWQ

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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Again, two documents, both the same pixels wxh but differing resolution tags. 

NOW open a third document and drag and drop over each, they produce the same results as expected. 

Sorry, I don't understand the language in the video but what I'm seeing on this end makes perfect sense. The two new documents have the same pixels but different tags. Dragging the 3rd document in either produces the same results; exactly what I'd expect. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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It makes perfect sense bro because that's how Photoshop has worked from day one (and not only PS) and because 1920x1080 at 72 and 300 and 3000 or any value is identical; 1920x1080 pixels. The ONLY difference is a metadata tag. This isn't a bug. 

A virgin file with 20ppi and one at 2000 at the SAME number of pixels HxW is, the same! 

Take a 1920x1080 image in Image Size and set the controls so resample is OFF (you are not adding or deleting pixels), alter the resolution value to anything you wish. It is the same (1920x1080). As the article provided (and there are many more), this is nothing new. It makes total sense if you concentrate on pixels, not metadata.  


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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It doesn't make any sense bro.

 

A virgin file with 20ppi should never display such a high quality image, just as it should never have the same weight as a 300ppi file.

 

Photoshop is crazy.

 

A 1080x1920 file with 20ppi should look like a LEGO, a Minecraft, only squares, it doesn't make sense what's going on bro.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/image-size-resolution.html

Resolution is the number of image pixels assigned to each inch when an image is printed.

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/key-concepts/resolution.html

Digital images are measured by the number of pixels per inch (ppi). For printing, resolution is measured by the number of dots printed in a linear inch (dpi).

You're not printing; you're viewing pixels (at some zoom ratio) in Photoshop.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2022 May 10, 2022

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While it uses InDesign, the following video may help...

 

Image Resolution Explained in InDesign
https://youtu.be/BPUXXKobybQ

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Easy to see in Photoshop.

Make a document that is 100x100 pixels @ 72.

Make another that is 100x100 pixels @ 300**

Set side by side and zoom both to 1600%.

Examine the size of the individual visible pixels: identical!

*set any value: no difference in size of the pixels.

Photoshop has behaved this way from day one, it is not alone. Not a bug.

The times PS “cares” about the resolution tag is when printing is concerned (the print dialog, view>print size, etc). 

All outlined in the PDF referred to in the 1st answer.

 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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I'll translate what this image is telling you to see and this is how Photoshop should behave.

 

Zequim_0-1652276037007.png

 

If you create a 10 by 10 inch document (we'll use this measurement for ease of calculation) with a resolution of 72 PPI and another document that is the same size but 300 PPI in Photoshop, you may notice that they are different sizes on the screen. This is due to the different number of pixels used in each inch. In the 72 PPI file, you can only fit 720 pixels across the document. At 300 PPI, 3000 pixels fit.

 

---

 

You are not understanding friend that the problem is not the proportion of the two files being the same.

The problem is the resolution, image quality being the same in both files.

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Got nothing to do with proportion friend. 

The pixels are the same size in the example I proided. The zoom ratio doesn't change that fact. Add more pixels and that changes the size. 100 x 100 pixels at 72 PPI and 100 x 100 pixels at 1000 PPI are exactly the same size.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Zequim

You are missing the point.

 

A 10 inch wide document at 72ppi will be 720 pixels wide

A 10 inch wide document at 300ppi will be 3000 pixels wide

 

BUT

 

A 3000 pixel wide document at 72 ppi will still be  3000 pixels wide

A 3000 pixel wide document at 300ppi will still be 3000 pixels wide

 

ppi is just metadata stored alongside the image data and is used by the print driver to calculate the physical size, in inches, when printing and the ruler size when shown on screen with a inch or cm ruler. Aside from calculating that ruler, an image on screen ignores ppi data altogether. All that matters is pixels. 100% zoom means 1 image pixel mapped onto 1 screen pixel. ppi is irrelevant to that mapping.

 

Dave

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Good luck Dave; I'm getting nowhere. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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But that's exactly what I'm saying.

It is obvious that 1000x1000px will always be 1000X1000px regardless of resolution.

The problem is not the scale or the aspect ratio, the problem is the resolution, quality and weight of the file, friends.

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Explorer ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Yes, because you're not getting my point.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Within PS no. But we've been over this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=qYe8cGy9TeI


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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"The problem is not the scale or the aspect ratio, the problem is the resolution, quality and weight of the file,"

 

The quality depends on the number of pixels in the image.

The weight of the file - presumably you mean the file size saved on disk. That is a function of the number of pixels and any compression set. ppi does not affect it, it is just a number stored in the metadata.

Resolution - that is pixels per inch (ppi) and only comes into play when converting to a physical print. On screen it is irrelevant and displayed resolution is purely a function of the monitor pixel pitch.

 

Dave

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Explorer ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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All my life I managed to take the same image and save it with different resolutions and file weights.

Keeping the same pixel size.

In other words, the same image of 1000X1000px

But with different resolutions and file weights.

But overnight I went crazy and stopped understanding how images and their properties behave.

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Explorer ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Please friends, understand, you are talking to someone who has been working with Photoshop for 15 years for COUNTLESS PURPOSES.

Printed Graphics

Digital

or any other end product

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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"..understand, you are talking to someone who has been working with Photoshop for 15 years...."

 

As have we, in my case 19 years.

 

You have not clarified what you mean by file weight (it is not a technical computer expression) but I do sometimes see it used to mean file size on disk. That file size on disk depends on the following:

a. Bit depth (each pixel can be represented by 8, 16 or 32 bits per channel. So each pixel in each channel uses 1 byte, 2. bytes or 4 bytes)

b. Image mode - CMYK has four channels RGB three

c. Layers (including smart objects)

d. Additional channels such as alpha channels

d. Pixel dimensions i.e. x pixels wide by y pixels high - this has a huge impact

e. Compression which reduces file size on disk. The amount of compression depends on both quality settings, for those alogorithms that offer variable compression such as jpeg, and image content - some content compresses better than others

f. The amount of non image metadata

 

Image resolution (ppi)  has no impact whatsoever on the image file size on disk. The value 72ppi and the value 300ppi does not increase the file size on disk, it is just a number stored alongside the image data.

 

Dave

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Explorer ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Friends, don't get me wrong, I understand that you have even more experience than mine.

I'm just making it clear that you're not talking to a beginner.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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@Zequim wrote:

Friends, don't get me wrong, I understand that you have even more experience than mine.

I'm just making it clear that you're not talking to a beginner.


Experience is a wonderful thing, it enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.“ -Source Unknown

 

As long as you now understand and recognize how resolution works in Photoshop (and virtually all pixel editors), we're all good. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2022 May 11, 2022

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Please friends, understand, you are talking to someone who has been working with Photoshop for 15 years.

 

A mere 31 years for me friend. I wrote my first article for a magazine on Resolution way back in 1998 and I see it's still a topic of confusion today. 

 

I agree with Dave, file weight is an undefined term. We may have a language issue here but digital images have no weight! Or size per se. They are made up of pixels. The same number of pixels can produce a vastly different (if you must weight), size they take up on disk-based upon the number of color channels, bit depth, and other attributes like layers. This has ZERO to do with the fact that a 1000x1000 pixel document at 1PPI, 10PPI, 100PPI and 10000PPI are the same! Again, the only difference is a tiny bit of text (metadata) that can be used, repeat can be but doesn't have to be used, to define some 'size' outside of Photoshop! 

Facts:
1. Digital images don't have any size other than the space they take up on some storage media. This size varies by many attributes even if the document has the same number of pixels: bit depth, layers, file type and possible compression, color space. It's not worth even considering this size due to so many differences. Digital images therefore should be considered in pixel density. And for this discussion I'm going to limit this to one axis (let's say the long axix) and the image is 1000 pixels. 
2. An analogy is necessary to discuss the resolution tag in digital images. If I'm 6 feet tall and every stride I take is 3 feet, and my friend is 5 feet tall and every stride he takes is 2 feet, when we both walk exactly 1 mile, we walked exactly a mile. That I walked with less strides (resolution) doesn't change that I walked exactly 1 mile (pixels). 
3. The resolution tag places no role in the 1000 pixel document in this respect: 1000 pixels at 100PPI and 1000 pixels at 100PPI are the same: 1000 pixels. In fact you can take a document that has 1000 pixles with a resolution tag of 100PPI, duplicate it and change the resolution to 1000PPI and the two are identical other than for metadata such as this resolution tag. And of course metadata like date/time the document was created and so forth. The two documents are 1000 pixels and the tag has no role and does nothing at this time. Set it for anything you want, as often as you want, it's the same digital image at this point. 
For all intent and purposes, the resolution tag plays no role. The number of pixels does. But wait you say, "I want to output the 1000 pixel image". To a print or on screen. OK, now we have a new size to consider! Let's work with a print. Computers are not too smart, they have no idea what you wish for a print size until you tell it. They do know you have 1000 pixels to use to make the print. What size print do you want? The answer comes about when you divide up the pixels you currently have (more about what you might have later) for this print. Now size can be inches, feet, meters, miles, CM, MM you get the point. Let's stick with inches for this story. You have 1000 pixels and the resolution tag is set to 100PPI. You simply need to understand simple math (division) or have a calculator once you accept you have 1000 pixels. At 100PPI (the tag), a print could (repeat could be), 10 inches. If the tag is 1000PPI, you're going to end up with 1 inch if you allow the computer to provide that division of your pixels. If the resolution tag is 23PPI, the size would be 43.4783 inches (here's where a calculator is useful). It's not if the tag is in MM or CM, or you alter the tag value. But in every case, the data is 1000 pixels. That is the critical number to know about first. The other number can always be changed so software can at this point understand a potential size for output. 

Work in pixels. Have a calculator nearby if necessary. Pretty much ignore the resolution tag until, if, you need to output that data and you require a specific output size. Understand you can allow software to interpolate BASED on the resolution tag. If the tag is 100PPI and you tell LR you want 10 inches, the results are quite different than if the tag is 1000PPI and you tell LR you want 10 inches. You are in control. The software only looks at the tag if and when you tell it to look and use that tag to produce some size with the pixels you have.  

 

Of course, had you read my PDF from the first answer here, I would not have to paste these facts above. Or this fact from Dave which is absolutely spot on, correct:

 

Image resolution (ppi)  has no impact whatsoever on the image file size on disk. The value 72ppi and the value 300ppi does not increase the file size on disk, it is just a number stored alongside the image data.

 

Bottom line, as you've described (as best you have) your 'issue', the facts are, this isn't a bug in Photoshop. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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