Syncronized colors still don't match?

[Liam Wiebe]

I started this question in the illustrator forums, but couldn't figure out an answer. I was told to relay the info here and on the color management forums.

Original Discussion:

Exported Colors don't match Preview Colors - RGB

My Problem:

Colors don't match in different adobe programs (even though color settings are synced, color modes are the same, and they are being viewed on the same monitor).

This video displays my problem, although it shows older info than the images below (You may need to use the chrome browser if you aren't already):

Color_Problems.mp4 - Google Drive

These images show the details (I shared these after I made the video, so the info is more updated)

Photoshop color settings:

Illustrator color settings:

Any ideas? Why aren't the colors the same?

[Omar.Fathy]

In your video you are comparing between Illustrator view and Windows Picture view and it is normal because Windows Picture doesn't use the same color profile ( it doesn't use a color profile ) so it is the normal to be difference.

[Liam Wiebe]

Yes, I now know that is the case. But in my screenshot, you can still see the difference in color from illustrator to photoshop. Its subtle, but still a different shade of orange. I have no clue why

[D Fosse]

First of all - color mode isn't interesting. What matters is the color profile - sRGB, Adobe RGB, US Web Coated, FOGRA39 and so on. The same numbers will yield different colors according to profile, and vice versa. Always think in terms of icc profiles!

Second - synchronizing color settings doesn't really do anything. It's just defaults and conversion policies. Files can still have different color profiles! Any embedded profile should always override the working space. That's how it's designed to work.

Third - there's a subtle difference in the CMYK policies: Illustrator's default is to preserve numbers. This is common good practice for preserving K-only overprint content on press; otherwise it will be converted into 4-color black. But it may change colors.

Now. With that out of the way, any visual difference between two color managed applications has to be in the display color management chain. Usually it's a defective monitor profile, and so the very first step in all such troubleshooting is to reprofile your display. Do you have a calibrator?

[G_Hoffmann]

Dag, I think, Gillian knows this already.

I've tried to reproduce his workflow, but with CS6 instead of newer versions:

Synchronize Photoshop and Illustrator for sRGB.

Embedded profile overrides working space (actually here nowhere required)

View PhS and Illu on the same monitor, even at he same time.

Make Image in PhS with orange square RGB = 247/147/30

Save as PNG8 or PNG24 or TIFF (PNG doesn't embed the profile, TIFF does)

Prepare a document in Illu:

Document space RGB, Settings as mentioned (sRGB). CMYK is nowhere involved.

Place PhS-Image (one of them).

Move PhS-Window and Illu-Window side by side. The colors look slightly different.

Save Illu doc as PDF.

Open this PDF in PhS.

Measure RGB in PhS: 247/147/30 ...OK!

I still don't know, how to use Eyedropper in Illu for measuring instead of transferring

a picked-up color to another object.

Applying Eyedropper(pick-up) delivers odd numbers e.g. 245/148/42 or 247/147/1

or some other random-like combinations with unknown source.

In the moment I can see only two possibilities left: Illu misinterpretes the common monitor

profile or uses something different. Or Illu is affected by a random error.

PhS is in this test everywhere correct.

So far, the problem could not be solved in the Illu Forum.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

[D Fosse]

Ah, OK. Thanks for clarifying that, Gernot.

[davescm]

Hi

When I carry out those same steps, described by Gernot, the colours look the same (provided I make the UI surrounds the same to discount any visual adaption due to the surround):

The difference with the eyedropper in Photoshop and the same used to measure another part of the screen is that within Photoshop it is measuring the image colours. Whereas measuring the screen over another application is, as far as I can tell,  measuring the colours converted via the monitor profile.

Hence the change from 247/147/30 to 247/147/43.   If I measure the two screenshots above there is a slight difference in that  Illustrator shows 247/147/43 and Photoshop 246/147/43 but I would happily put that slight difference in the Red channel down to rounding errors.

Dave

[G_Hoffmann]

Dave, thanks for joining the discussion.

I had compared the PhS values 247/147/30 as measured in PhS with the somewhat

random Illu values in the Illu program window, I didn`t measure not in screenshots.

Reference ist still the image in Gilligan's post #1, but in my impression the effect isn't

accurately reproducible.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

[davescm]

G.Hoffmann  wrote

I had compared the PhS values 247/147/30 as measured in PhS with the somewhat

random Illu values in the Illu program window, I didn`t measure not in screenshots.

Ah I see that now - and sure enough - Illustrator reports 247/147/43 - which strangely is the value I see in the screenshot!

Also my theory on the monitor profile for those PS eyedropper values on windows outside Photoshop may be wrong - I just switched around the monitor profile which changed the visible colors but not the measured numbers.

Dave

[Liam Wiebe]

Thanks for taking the time to reproduce everything Dave and Gernot!

Do you think there is a problem then? The difference in colors on my end is unlike both of yours, I'm not sure what this could stem from.

[Liam Wiebe]

Thanks for the info!

Yes I do have a calibrator, the Spyder5EXPRESS

[Hepacanww]

Oh my lord! I was trying to figure this out for so long and have done every colour setting check imaginable and it was indeed my screen... For some reason it decided to make Photoshop colours completely fluro one week out of the blue. Now I know why. Thank you so much

[D Fosse]

I finally got around to check this. I can not reproduce it.

Here are actual screenshots from PS and Ai - cropped and put together against a gray background here - from sRGB 247-147-30. My monitor profile is assigned, then converted to sRGB and the profile embedded in the PNG. So you can save this to disk and measure. The original 247-147-30 values should be maintained:

I still haven't seen anyone else suggest a reprofiling of the display, so I'd like to repeat that request. This has to be the monitor profile - there's nothing else it can be

[Liam Wiebe]

Once I get my Calibrator back (borrowed it to a friend), I will re-calibrate again.

So your saying that if there is no difference when I calibrate it again, then my calibrator is defective and I should get a new one?

[davescm]

Hi Dag

Like me you see the same colours on screen - however using the eyedropper in Photoshop and AI do you see different values the way Gunter and I see? That is 247/147/30 in Photoshop and 247/147/43 in AI ?

I agree the OPs problem is most likely the monitor profile but I'd still like to understand that colour value difference in what should both be sRGB docs

Dave

[D Fosse]

They're identical in all respects - numbers, visual appearance. I put in the numbers manually in both apps.

In the OP's original screenshot at the top, the numbers are the same, 247-147-30, and the visual appearance different. That has to be the monitor profile.

[davescm]

Strange. I followed Gunters approach and created a doc in Photoshop as sRGB then saved with profile. Then placed the saved doc into an illustrator doc which I had created also with the sRGB profile. I saw the same number changes as Gunter.

Racking my brains trying to understand why.

Dave

[D Fosse]

Hold on. Now we're on to something. I missed the "Place" bit.

If I save out an sRGB PSD with these numbers and Place that in Illustrator - it reads Monitor RGB values! Down to the last digit, reproducible by converting to the monitor profile in Photoshop.

If I just open the PSD in Illustrator the numbers are consistent.

[D Fosse]

This is the readout from Ai - that's the sRGB Photoshop file Placed in an sRGB Ai doc:

And this is the PSD converted to the monitor profile:

You won't get those exact numbers of course - this is the current 6300K profile for my new Eizo CG2730.

[davescm]

At least we now understand what it is doing - and it explains why I saw that the  AI eyedropper was matching the Photoshop eyedropper used out of the Photoshop window (i.e. reading the screen). Although why Illustrator would read values converted to monitor profile in a placed layer I have no idea

Dave

[D Fosse]

Well, you did hit the right answer up there a few posts ago, don't know why you changed your mind. It was indeed monitor profile values.

In my experience number inconsistencies are never random. They always relate to one profile or another, you just need to figure out which one. Even a corrupt profile will usually have reproducible numbers if you go after them.

[davescm]

What made me doubt my findings was that, with Illustrator open, I switched the monitor profile in Windows and the numbers did not change (although the displayed colours did - as expected) . However I have now repeated the "experiment" and the numbers only change when Illustrator is restarted.

So for placed documents, Illustrator color picker is picking up and converting the numbers using the monitor profile in use on opening (that is opening Illustrator not just a new document).  It's a strange world

Dave

[D Fosse]

Yes, the monitor profile is loaded by the application at startup. You always have to relaunch the app to use a different profile.

And yes, why Illustrator does it this way is an interesting question.

[Vardui5C7D]

You screenshot the illustrator color you want >paste it on photoshop>and change the dropper settings to "actual color."

Select the screenshot with the dropper and copy its color code to the solid color's code

I hope it works for you as well!