TIF File Size more than doubles with new Photoshop 23.5.0

Report · Aug 25, 2022

I just installed Photoshop 23.5 on my 27in iMac, and have found that when I work on a Tif that has multiple layers and save it, the file size more than doubles from the previous version. To confirm this, I performed a simple test...

I opened a Tif that I worked on yesterday (saved with the previous version of photoshop). It is 1.02 GB in size. I then saved that file with the new version of photoshop (with no changes made to it, nor other changes on my Mac), and the file size is now 2.5 GB. The Tif is 16 bit colour with 18 layers.

Looks like an issue has been introduced in the new release. Would you be able to take a look please Adobe.

Cheers.

Report · Aug 26, 2022

Hi @damienl40933875 sorry to hear this.

Let's make sure we're in a default state and there are no stale settings somewhere:

Restore your preferences using this manual method:

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/preferences.html#Manually 

Does it work correctly?

If that doesn't solve it, you can quit Photoshop and put the Settings folder back.

It may help if we could see your Photoshop System Info. Launch Photoshop, and select Help >System Info...and copy/paste the text in a reply.

Thank you,

Report · Aug 26, 2022

Hi Cory,

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried the preferences reset, but unfortunately no change in behaviour.

I have included the system info below as requested.

Cheers,

Damien

Adobe Photoshop Version: 23.5.0 20220809.r.669 0e07917 x64 Number of Launches: 1982 Operating System: Mac OS 12.5.0 System architecture: Intel CPU Family:6, Model:14, Stepping:12 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AVX, AVX2 Physical processor count: 6 Processor speed: 3700 MHz Built-in memory: 32768 MB Free memory: 16287 MB Memory available to Photoshop: 28998 MB Memory used by Photoshop: 70 % Crash Handler: Adobe DCX Version: 6.7.1 SAM SDK Version: 2.0.0-main.1351 ACP.local Status: - SDK Version: 2.7.1.1 - Core Sync Status: Reachable and compatible - Core Sync Running: 5.16.2.1 - Min Core Sync Required: 4.3.66.28 Live Edit Client SDK Version: 3.90.3 Content Credentials is disabled Content Credential Helper Version: Not Available Manta Canvas: Enabled. Alias Layers: Disabled. Modifier Palette: Disabled. Highbeam: Disabled. Touch Bar Property Feedback: Enabled. Image tile size: 1028K Image cache levels: 5 Font Preview: Medium HarfBuzz Version: 2.8.1 TextEngine: Unified Text Engine ======= GPU
Native API stable: True OpenGL API stable: True OpenCL API stable: True GPUDeny: 0
GPUForce: 0
useGPU: 1
useOpenCL: 1
isGPUCapable: 1
GPUName: AMD Radeon Pro 580X
GPUVendor: AMD
IsNativeGPUCapable: 1
IsOpenGLGPUCapable: 1
IsOpenCLGPUCapable: 1
HasSufficientRAM: 1
GPU accessible RAM: 8,589 MB
Required GPU accessible RAM: 1,500 MB
UseGraphicsProcessorChecked: 1
UseOpenCLChecked: 1
Display: 1 Display Bounds: top=0, left=0, bottom=1440, right=2560 High DPI Monitor Main Display ------- Sniffer output
[0 ms]
Launch GPUSnifferThread

[1 ms]
Start RunAllAPIs

[1 ms]
"/Applications/Adobe Photoshop 2022/Adobe Photoshop 2022.app/Contents/MacOS/sniffer" -baseTimeMS=1332643 -comment=Photoshop Version: Adobe Photoshop 23.5.0 20220809.r.669 0e07917 x64

[192 ms]
Start sniffer 2022-08-27 09:28:06
# Photoshop Version: Adobe Photoshop 23.5.0 20220809.r.669 0e07917 x64
sniffer -baseTimeMS=1332643 -comment=Photoshop Version: Adobe Photoshop 23.5.0 20220809.r.669 0e07917 x64

{12 ms}
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Main: TRUE
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# attached displays: 1
69935604
GPU accessible RAM: 8,589 MB
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# displays: 1
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Attached Device: (DeviceID name=16915464 index=0 preferred=1)

# devices: 1
Device 0
Name: AMD Radeon Pro 580X OpenGL Engine
Preferred: TRUE
Power Envelope: DISCRETE
Attachment: UNKNOWN
# attached displays: 1
69935604
GPU accessible RAM: 8,192 MB
VRAM: 8,192 MB
Dedicated System RAM: 0 MB
Shared System RAM: 0 MB
API version: 2.1 (2.1 ATI-4.8.101)
Device version: 2.1 (2.1 ATI-4.8.101)
Vendor name: AMD
Driver date: UNKNOWN
Driver age: UNKNOWN
Driver version: UNKNOWN
GLSL version: 1.20 (1.20)
CGL ID: 16915464
Display mask: 2047
End platform OpenGL
{161 ms}

{161 ms}
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# displays: 0

# devices: 1
Device 0
Name: AMD Radeon Pro 580X Compute Engine
Preferred: TRUE
Power Envelope: DISCRETE
Attachment: UNKNOWN
# attached displays: 0
GPU accessible RAM: 8,589 MB
VRAM: 8,589 MB
Dedicated System RAM: 0 MB
Shared System RAM: 0 MB
API version: 1.2 (OpenCL 1.2 (Jun 17 2022 18:58:05))
Device version: 1.2 (OpenCL 1.2 )
Vendor name: AMD
Driver date: UNKNOWN
Driver age: UNKNOWN
Driver version: UNKNOWN
Bandwidth: 28 GB / s
Compute score: 2,355.49
Device name string: AMD Radeon Pro 580X Compute Engine
Device vendor string: AMD
Platform name string: Apple
Platform vendor string: Apple
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CmdN: 1.13.2
CDP: 1.149.0
Projects: 1.4.5 Loaded at: 78 ms - launch time impact: 571 ms Content Credentials (Loaded) 0.31.4.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Loaded at: 4062 ms - launch time impact: 0 ms ccx-timeline (Prepared) 3.0.3.0 - from the file "Required Folder" CCX Commenting UXP Webview (Loaded) 23.6.0.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Loaded at: 4063 ms - launch time impact: 0 ms CCX Sharesheet UXP (Prepared) 23.12.0.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Photoshop Cloud Value Dialog (Loaded) 1.0.1.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Loaded at: 79 ms - launch time impact: 0 ms Share Panel (Loaded) 1.0.3.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Loaded at: 80 ms - launch time impact: 0 ms CC Libraries Panel (Prepared) 3.19.237.0 - from the file "/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CEP/extensions/CC_LIBRARIES_PANEL_EXTENSION_3_19_237/" CAPTURE: 2.0.34 STOCK: 4.0.2 Substance 3D (Prepared) 0.1.3.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Photoshop UXP Export-As (Prepared) 5.8.13.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Photoshop In App Messaging (Loaded) 2.7.5.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Loaded at: 4063 ms - launch time impact: 0 ms Photoshop Selection Feedback (Prepared) 0.5.0.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Plugins Panel (Prepared) 1.4.3.0 - from the file "Required Folder" IC popup message (Loaded) 1.0.0.0 Loaded at: 3844 ms - launch time impact: 0 ms Multilayer Protection (Loaded) 1.0.0.0 Loaded at: 3845 ms - launch time impact: 0 ms Discover Panel (Loaded) 2.8.0.29 - from the file "Required Folder" Loaded at: 4063 ms - launch time impact: 10 ms Neural Filters (Registered) 1.13.3.0 - from the file "Required Folder" Extensions: Libraries 1.0.0 - from the file “/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CEP/extensions/CC_LIBRARIES_PANEL_EXTENSION_3_19_237/index.html” com.adobe.capture.extension 1.0.0 - from the file “/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CEP/extensions/CC_LIBRARIES_PANEL_EXTENSION_3_19_237/extensions/capture/capture.html” com.adobe.stock.panel.licensing-embedded 1.0.0 - from the file “/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CEP/extensions/CC_LIBRARIES_PANEL_EXTENSION_3_19_237/extensions/stock-panel-licensing/index.html” Export As 4.8.15 - from the file “/Applications/Adobe Photoshop 2022/Adobe Photoshop 2022.app/Contents/Resources/CEP/extensions/com.adobe.photoshop.crema/index.html” Interactive Luminosity Masks 3.3.0 - from the file “/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CEP/extensions/com.svenstork.photoshop.InteractiveLuminosityMasks/index.html” Export As 4.8.15 - from the file “/Applications/Adobe Photoshop 2022/Adobe Photoshop 2022.app/Contents/Resources/CEP/extensions/com.adobe.photoshop.crema/index.html” com.adobe.cclibraries.manager 1.0.0 - from the file “/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CEP/extensions/CC_LIBRARIES_PANEL_EXTENSION_3_19_237/manager.html” Installed TWAIN devices: NONE

Report · Sep 07, 2022

Hi Cory,

Hmmm, I have replied to you a couple of times, but the my forum message is disappearing. I reply to your post and then the message looks OK and says it has posted. If I come back into the forum in 5 minutes, my message has gone!!

So I am going to use this as a test. 3rd time lucky.

To answer your fist question, no restoring the preferences did not work. I will post system info in next post.

Cheers,

Damien

Report · Sep 07, 2022

Hi Cory,

OK, I can see what is happening. When I paste my system info into a message, that post disappears! It looks as there is some sort of filter running over the forum checking new messages, and then is removing something it does not like?

Anyway, forum strangeness aside, is there perhaps another way I can send my system info to you?

Cheers,

Damien

Report · Sep 08, 2022

Hi @damienl40933875 send info to: shubert@adobe.com

Thank you,

Report · Sep 13, 2022

Hi Cory,

I have mailed my sys info through to you, but suspect that you may not have received it. That may not be a problem now, as the original message I posted on 26 Aug is now showing in this thread above with the info in it.

cheers,

Damien

Report · Sep 19, 2022

Hi @CoryShubert,

Have you had any thoughts on the photoshop size issue?

Regards,

Damien

Report · Sep 19, 2022

Photoshop v 22 had a bug that applied compression to PSD and PSB files, when compression had been disabled in preferences. That bug is now fixed.

I know this is about TIFF, but perhaps it's related. When we pursued this PSD/PSB bug, I can't recall that we ever checked TIFFs to compare.

Still, it seems likely that if there is a difference in file size, it's caused by some sort of compression. Have you noticed any differences in save/open times? That would be the smoking gun, as compression is very CPU-intensive and dramatically increases save times.

Report · Sep 19, 2022

Thanks for the reply. The saving time has increased with the new version as my images are now 2 or 3 gig as opposed 1gig for example. However I dont think it is compression. Firstly, the saving progress when using compression is quite steady as shown by the fuel gauge. Without compression, the fuel gauge increases in jumps as it saves, then usually takes a while on the last few percent. This behaviour has been similar in both versions of Photoshop. I have also run a test to save an image that I have not opened with the new version. If I save that image with compression on, it is still much larger than the file saved with the old version.

If it had to guess, it feels like some layers are taking up more space than they used to. Perhaps each layer is being treated as the same dimensions as the canvas, when some layers are smaller than the canvas size, paticularly when a mask is involved. For example in the old version I might add a new exposure layer then mask what I want to affect on the underlying image, and when I saved that the image, it only slightly increased in size. Now if I do that with the new version there seems to be a much larger increase in file size when I save.

I am not sure I am explaining that very well, and I can't really verify that without the old version. Anyway it is just a thought based on my observations.

Cheers,

Damien

Report · Sep 20, 2022

Well, if one file is smaller than the other, all else being equal, it has to be compression. A pixel with three color components is what it is, it takes up the bytes it takes up. Unless compressed.

And yes, adjustment layers are compressed too, that's part of it.

To confirm this, you have to save the exact same file in both versions, and measure save times as well as file size on disk.

Report · Sep 20, 2022

Yes normally I would agree with you, but it doesnt seem to tally with what I am experiencing. It is pretty wierd. Sadly I dont have the old version, so cant compare times, but I can compare the sizes...

Original file from previous version - Size: 1.34GB

Oriignal file saved with new version and no compression - Size: 2.94GB

Oriignal file saved with new version and compression - Size: 2.83GB

Cheers,

Damien

Report · Sep 20, 2022

I don't have v22 installed any more either, so I can't compare.

But there are lots of variables here, it's not just on/off. There are three algorithms, ZIP, LZW and RLE, and even a fourth if you count jpeg (why anyone would save a TIFF with jpeg compression is beyond me). So are you absolutely sure all compression options are the same?

LZW was developed for 8 bit data, and does not work well with 16 bit files. In fact, it may increase file size.

The presence of adjustment layers (also compressed) will dramatically affect file size and save times.

So, without direct comparison of the exact same source file, saved with the exact same compression options, in different versions, there's no way to know what you're looking at.

For web files, metadata can make a big dent. I don't see how that can make a difference here. Other than that, I really can't see anything other than compression that could cause this.

Report · Sep 20, 2022

Thanks for following up. You are right there are lots of options, however I don't use the compression, and actually never have, and I have used the same workflow for years.

But to see if this could be something relating to compression as you suggest, I have also saved using the zip compression on the same file. That took ages, at 4 times longer to save at 37 seconds, and I have never had to wait that long to save a file previously. In addition the saved image is not the same size as the original image size.

So to clarify, the first two sizes I listed in my previous post is an example of the exact same source file saved with the exact same options. (I only did the third option with LZW compression as a test). All my files are saved the same way, without compression.

The problem became immediately obvious as I indicated in my first post of the thread. I was working on an image one day, then installed the new Photoshop version next morning, and when I saved that same image from the previous day using the new version, it more than doubled in size. Now every single image I work on is doing the same thing.

So this problem is 100% reproducable. I just open an image saved in the old version (all my images) and save it using the new version, and voila!

Something has changed in the release. So with a bit of luck hopefully Adobe can figure it out what is happening.

Cheers,
Damien

Report · Sep 20, 2022

Actually, if this is entirely without compression, that points to the same v22 bug that we got fixed in v23, for PSDs and PSBs.

What happened there was that RLE compression was applied even when you turned off all compression for PSD/PSB in preferences. Files were somewhat smaller, but save times went up, and that's what caused us to raise the red flag (actually it was @davescm who discovered this and mostly followed it up).

So, in fact, there is no longer any problem. It's been fixed. Files were smaller in v22, and that was the bug. They were RLE-compressed, and that was not correct.

I misread this situation at first, because I got the wrong impression that you were in fact using some compression. Knowing that you're not, I think clears this up entirely.

But thanks for reporting 🙂 It sheds new light on what happened.

Report · Sep 20, 2022

Thanks for clarifying the problem you are desribing, and I understand what you are saying. However, I do not think this "clears it up entirely". The behaviour I am seeing does not match what you have described.

Here is a summary of what I see that seems to vary with the issue you noted:

- I am working with TIFs image files not PSD/PSBs

- The TIFs are now are doubling or more in size, not just "somewhat" larger.

- Saving times are not changing radically, it would seem slightly longer to accommodate the larger sizes to write to disk, but not as long as if compression had been turned on.

- I cannot replicate the original image file sizes by saving them using any compression switches. This would indicate that it is not some internal switch that was on when it shouldn't have been.

In conclusion, while the PSD/PSB problem may have been resolved, there appears to be something else or additional happening to the TIFs.

I hope that helps clarify the problem.

Cheers,

Damien

Report · Sep 20, 2022

I'm getting exactly the same file sizes and save times with the same settings in 2021 vs 2022.

Report · Sep 21, 2022

On a similar subject..

I have Ps 23.5.1 and the count of the file size (lower left, see attachment) does not update while i work on the image and create new layers. When it is time to save the file, it still shows the intial dimension - as it was before the editing - while the real size is probably now some giga. As a result, i never know if i can save the file as TIFF in Lr.

Please help, thanks.

Marco.

Report · Sep 21, 2022

This is a known and acknowledged bug (and an entirely different issue than the one discussed here).

We all expected it to be fixed in 23.5.1, but it wasn't. Yes, it's quite irritating.

Report · Sep 21, 2022

Ok. Sorry for the confusion, and thank you for your answer.

I will wait.

Marco

Adobe Support Community

TIF File Size more than doubles with new Photoshop 23.5.0