P: Pro Retouchers need better Liquify

[Katrin Eismann]

Liquify needs an update to support:
1. Smart Objects
2. Command (control) F for redoes
3. Mesh speed-up

All of these issues are critical for high-emd professional retouchers who work with very (2 Gb plus are common) large layered files. Smart Object support would allow them to return to a move and refine. Command F repeat would allow them to apply the same move to multiple layers as needed, and finally the Save & Load mesh is painfully slow - so slow that many retouchers are forced back to CS4.

Liquify is used a LOT to make the beautiful more perfect - but it needs some attention to bring it up to speed with the power of Puppet Warp.

Thank you!

[Reynolds__Mark_]

There are reasons why this is presently impossible Teekay. The graphics card would have to render any layer blending modes, styles, ad*stments opacities of a multiple layered file on the fly while you do your editing.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Potentially true. Adjustments and blending modes are relatively quick calculations, and you can already smoothly paint (GPU accelerated) on layers below adjustment layers, blending modes, etc without much problems. Obviously liquify is more GPU intensive, but I still think this should be possible, without excessive lag.

Even if I'm wrong, I'd still MUCH rather have liquify out of that useless window, even if it ran like it does now and the only layer you see is the current one being modified, as well as the option for a layer below, like currently exists. There would still be great benefits.

At very least, liquify meshes should be allowed to be stored dynamically on Smart Objects and modified/deleted after the fact. The whole mess of having to save/load meshes if you wanted to go back in and change something (non-destructively)... is just a mess.

[Edward Caruso Photography]

having the ability to save/load meshes is vital for many workflows that you yourself might not use. almost all pro retouchers need to be able to load a particular mesh to different layers or layer masks in an image. its not just about being able to readjust a mesh on one layer.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

True, I didn't really word myself properly. Saving and Loading meshes is great and shouldn't be removed or anything, but there should be a way to modify meshes, and applying them dynamically to a Smart Object (like the way Filters are applied) seems like a step in the right direction.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

True, I didn't really word myself properly. Saving and Loading meshes is great and shouldn't be removed or anything, but there should be a way to modify meshes, and applying them dynamically to a Smart Object (like the way Filters are applied) seems like a step in the right direction.

[Edward Caruso Photography]

about the modal dialogue box - i think it is absolutely necessary for liquify to use this - w/o i dont think it could have all of the features it has now. see puppet warp - a severely limited tool w/o a dialogue box (no save/load mesh!) - that i feel was designed for new users who would be put off by a separate dialogue box. if they change liquify to break it out of the dialogue and it loses functionality - all heck would break loose.
adobe finally added load last mesh and the gpu options to liquify so i dont think it will be touched for awhile at least.

[peter_w]

Blending calculations are currently done in real time for all layers. When you adjust layer opacity or blending options on a layer, it currently updates live. There is no reason why this shouldn't work for Liquify renders, too. You would be adding the computation time for the liquify operation of course, but that is currently also real time and GPU accelerated. Besides, both calculations would only have to be done at screen resolution when editing (i.e. only the portion currently displayed or a lower cache level when zoomed out). Being able to have Liquify work in context, especially on Smart Objects, would be a huge benefit.

As far as UI complexity goes, I'm sure the Properties/3D scene graph panel could be reused as it currently is for existing on-canvas filters like the new blurs and Lighting Effects (the CS6 version based on the 3D engine). A tool properties panel that displays all the options for the current tool would also make a lot of sense, it could replace things like the brushes panel, paragraph/character setting panel etc., maybe even the 3D panel, based on tool context. The current situation is basically a workaround that is required because some tools require more settings than fit into the options bar.

I completely agree, however, losing functionality is completely out of the question, of course.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

As long as Photoshop’s Liquify is not applicable as Smart Filter and can save the mesh automatically/internally I use the feature only very reluctantly.
Unfortunately Puppet Warp and Displace Filter lack the full power of Liquify, so I’d like Liquify improved towards applicability as a Smart Filter.

I assume the Mesh being stored in the File would mean some bloat but still ...

[peter_w]

Agreed, duplicating the layer, applying Liquify, saving the map, applying the modification, deleting the liquified layer, duplicating the original again, loading the mesh, editing the mesh, saving the mesh, applying the effect and so on is a quite cumbersome workflow. I often find myself thinking "Do I really need to do this via Liquify or is there a different way to do this?". I don't really use smart filters all that often, but Liquify is the one case where it would make the most sense to me.

Displace has some great uses, but would also benefit from better integration (first step would be to make it accept channels instead of the clunky map file workflow back from the stone ages). Imagine if you could apply Displace live on-canvas and use all of Photoshop's paint tools, filters etc. to edit the displacement map live in context. Warp in Free Transform would have the potential to make a lot of things easier and reduce the number of times I have to launch into Liquify if only it let us adjust the number of subdivisions. Oh well.

[J453]

Liquify can be applied as a Smart Filter in Photoshop 13.1 for Creative Cloud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17-blB...

Mesh and general performance has been greatly enhanced for Photoshop CS6 (13.x) in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV08ER...

[powal1234]

I LOVE THE NEW LIQUIFY :-)
Thank you Adobe.

[FauxtoGuy]

It would be helpful to be able to add guides to the liquify workspace. I have a workaround for this, but guides would still be more efficient.

[Todd Shaner]

You can also double-click (or double tap) inside the transform selection to commit it.

[anne078]

Thank you! That does help.

[rpengale]

It has often anoyed me too, but I think I just realized the purpose. This final commit keeps the history panel from recording every single little adjustment. I might adjust the width, height and rotation of an object multiple times to get it just right, maybe a dozen or more adjustments sometimes, and then I click checkmark to say that's it. Now in the history panel I have added only one step, so it's easy to undo and get back to the object as it was before the transform. If every little adjustment was recorded, the history panel could get cluttered with trivia, and lose important earlier steps prematurely.

Thanks for bringing this up. The usefulness of commit the transform has puzzled me many times.

[JohanElzenga]

It's not the history, it's the transform itself. If there was no confirm, each transformation would be applied immediately (and destructively unless you transform a vector or a smart object). Imagine what this would do for the image quality if you transformed too much, and then corrected this.

[Earth Oliver]

Transformations of non-smart objects are destructive, so it would be a HUGE issue if there wasn't confirmation. 

[rpengale]

Just tested. Open image. Select All. Copy. Paste. Automatic SmartObjects From Paste is Off and neither layer icon has a SmartObject badge. Resize layer smaller. Click commit. Resize layer smaller again. Commit. Resize layer to full width & height. During the embiggening, the preview is blocky, but clicking commit shows the image in expected detail. Looks like the original to me. Setting the top (re-resized) layer to Difference shows mostly black with a few areas indicating a slight color change, so most of the resized image has returned identical to the original layer. I'm surprised it's not perfect, but the original layer was from 14-bit RAW so I forgive some slight differences.

Similar experience using a JPEG copied to the clipboard from a different program. Paste. Resize smaller, larger, smaller, back to as close to normal as I could wiggle it. Commit between each resize. The final version has the detail I expected from the original paste.

Perhaps don't-discard-details was the original purpose of making Transform require a commit, but something clever is preserving the details here today without an explicit SmartObject.

[Earth Oliver]

Your interpolation is probably set to automatic, so you're seeing the new preserve details work its magic. And while that amount of degradation might be acceptable to you, as a professional retoucher, there's no way i could ever live with the behavior described by Anne. 

Having PS resize and re-interpolate a layer ever time a transform handle is moved would be a terrible idea.

[anne078]

I feel that I should clarify that I personally make composites for ads, do simple photo retouching, and make quick comps for paintings and projects, therefor the high level of quality that professional photographers aim for is not of interest to me. There are many professionals that use Photoshop, and not all of us create a finished product that must print with fine art quality (local newspaper ads for example). I have found it most interesting to get a peek into the concerns of some of you high level printer-perfect users though - and that definitely makes the argument to make the transform confirmation optional rather than getting rid of it. I definitely appreciate the difficulty of the job of the developers for a software that serves the wide variety of users that Photoshop does. 🙂

[Todd Shaner]

Anne, there is one other issue. The current Transform process updates only the screen preview and not the full image bit map. When you commit the transform adjustments the full image bit map data is recalculated using an interpolation process. Depending on the size of the image it can take seconds. If this was happening real-time per your request you would have to wait after every single adjustment for the screen preview to update before applying the next adjustment. Even with low-resolution image files this would slow you down much more than just a single double-click.

If you find yourself using the same transforms on multiple images you might try creating an Action and apply it with the Batch processor.