Best practice for making changes to folders to be imported into ORGANIZER 2020.

It is easy to understand what 'moving' files means in the Windows Explorer.

We have seen that the Organizer can show the same visual tree structure as the Explorer.

But how are 'moves' recorded in the catalog database?

As a matter of fact, what really takes place has nothing to do with a 'move', which would be removing an item from somewhere and copying it elsewhere.

Simply put, each image file has its 'card' in the catalog. This card holds many 'fields' to describe the exif and tags properties.

Each 'card' has its own 'id'.

The main database table is the 'media_table' as shown above.

The location of the file on your computer is very important: you can see that there are indexes to search by the file name, the hierarchical path, the volume_id (the drive letter and disk serial number stored in another table).

So, what takes place when you 'move' is only that the above table is updated to store the new location, path and drive id.

The visual folder tree is automatically reconstructed from the above information when there is any change.

The advantage of Windows Explorer over Adobe Organizer, in this respect, is that we can open two windows and drag photos to subfolders we have just created in another window.

The advantage of the tree view over the Windows explorer is that the files you want to move don't need to be in the same folder. Normally, you don't work mainly within folders in the browsing space (as described by Greg).

For instance, you have a selection of files situated on different folders. You can move the files from this selection by dragging them from the browsing space to a given folder selected in the left folders panel (in list or tree view).

LemonPeeler said:

As to the VIEW LIST in the navigation pane, I assume this is what you are referring to as the "browsing space" above?

I think you have misinterpreted Michel's comment about the "browsing space."   I believe he is referring to the images which appear in the media grid.  In other words, the thumbnails that allow you to browse through your images.  AFAIK, there is no difference in behavior of the folders that appear in the Tree or List Views.  It is just the way they present the folders to you.  The List view is presented in alpha-numeric order.  The Tree view duplicates the Windows Explorer folder structure.

LemonPeeler said:

we don't see a way to open two TREE view windows in Adobe Organizer in order to move files from one folder to another folder and have the movement recorded in the catalogs, correct?

This is true, but here is a tip you might find useful for moving files between folders

1. Click on the original folder that contains the files you wish to move.
2. Select the files that are displayed in the grid.
3. Scroll in the Folder panel until the new folder is visible.  (Depending on its location, it may already be visible.)  The original folder's photos will remain visible in the grid.
4. Drag the selected files to the new folder.  The files will be moved to the new folder location, and if the original folder is now empty of catalog files it will disappear from the Tree view.  If this is the case, you will have to delete the empty folder using Windows Explorer.

Essentially, dragging selected files from the grid to a folder is the same as dragging files between two Explorer windows.

"How do we delete a watched or imported folder from the catalog using the Tree View in the navigation pane? Back to the question of inadvertently destructive user actions, we are hesitant to perform deletions from the Organizer interface for fear we are deleting actual folders on the hard drive versus entries in the catalog. Have others had this concern also?"

Deleting selected files from the browsing space necessarily asks for your choice to delete only from the catalog or also from the disk. Would you like an additional message like 'are you sure?'

If you are using the tree view, that's another story. You can select a folder, just like in the explorer and right click 'delete folder', you get a warning that all files from that folder will be deleted from the catalog, and a checkbox asks if you also want to delete from disk. Then, the result will be the same as deleting from the explorer. All files in the folder including non media files and not catalogued files will be deleted. You have been warned!

So, deleting folders from the folders tree view is not a natural practice for organizer users: they rather select the files in a folder and delete the selection from catalog and from disk if they want; or they move the selected files to another temporary folder before deleting from catalog; or they 'hide' the selection before deleting it, generally after a full backup.

"My only question, for both of you, is that when we imported (probably a manual import or refresh of an existing folder) we received a warning or option.  If I remember correctly, it warned us there were duplicate files and asked whether we wanted to overwrite them?  Yet, both of you indicated that files are ignored if they were already imported. "

The warning about overwriting files only exists in the restore process of a backup.

The other warnings are only about files that have been skipped.

The process is the same in watched folders and new imports (refreshing). The first one is automatic in the background. You have the option to be asked if you want to import those new files, not to overwrite. When refreshing, you are supposed to want to import everything new. Note that the organizer automatically indexes your import batches. You can review them if you are not sure to keep all files in the batch.

LemonPeeler said:
My only question, for both of you, is that when we imported (probably a manual import or refresh of an existing folder) we received a warning or option.  If I remember correctly, it warned us there were duplicate files and asked whether we wanted to overwrite them?  Yet, both of you indicated that files are ignored if they were already imported. 

I think you are mistaken or are misdescribing what you did.

• If you are importing (into the catalog) from files already stored in your computer, the catalog is not duplicating any new files and will not be overwriting any files. 
• Similarly, if you are refreshing an existing folder, using the Import Media from the Folder Panel context menu, no new files are being created or overwritten.  The command merely adds to the catalog any new files that have been stored in the (unwatched) folder since the last time an import of that folder took place.  If you have copied an image from another folder to the existing folder (using Explorer), it will not be imported into the catalog because it already exists in the catalog and the Organizer abhors duplicates. (I haven't tried this out to confirm, and Michel may correct me if I'm wrong.)

LemonPeeler said:

We have not used a WATCH yet, but is possible that a manual import alerts us to duplicates while a WATCH actually ignores duplicate files?  A minor issue, but would be nice to understand.

Yes, I believe you have stated it correctly.  (Again, I haven't tested this to confirm but I don't recall a watched folder dialog displaying a file to import and then telling me that the file is already in the catalog.)

To add to Greg's recent answer, I'll try to describe how the organizer deals with the folder tree, based on what we can observe for the various actions we can try.

The primary information about where a given file is situated in the folder tree is described in the record associated with that file in the catalog database. We can check that with an sqlite tool. Knowing that information for each file makes it possible to re-construct the tree for all files in a catalog without having to search in your explorer. As far as I know, the resulting folder tree is not stored elsewhere in your catalog, only in memory. Each time you open the organizer, the folder tree is re-created from the database. No duplication... but you'll see a difference with the last editing session if files have been moved, renamed or deleted externally in the meantime: some folders or files may be displayed dimmed, to show the media is not longer at the same location. If an external drive or DVD is not plugged in, you'll get icons showing that they are 'offline'. Files no longer where they were at import or edit time are displayed with a missing file icon.

So, the reconstruction of the tree is followed by a check against the current physical locations on the drive. Checking ten thousands files against several millions is fast if you start by browsing the catalog list, it would be extremely slow to check all files on all your drives compared to the catalog set of files.

But nothing will show you files added on your computer unless you decide to import them, either from the 'import' feature or the 'watched' folders service. The reason is that scanning all your files on all your drives would be much too slow. If you decide to use the 'watched' folders feature, the search will be limited to the folders you want to watch and the search will take place as  background task. Similarly, you get the same result by importing from selected folders, the already present files in the catalog will be ignored and only the new ones will be imported. It's your choice to import selectively or to let a background task run automatically.

I hope this will help to understand the detailed answers from Greg.

The folder tree management was totally rewritten in PSE11 to replace the old, buggy one.

@Lemon Peeler, my responses are in-line to your questions:

FIRST, it appears that the folder tree does not update in the Adobe Elements Organizer, is that true? 

Yes, unless you make the folder a watched folder (discussed below).

When we view a folder in organizer, it does not display the same content as seen in Windows Explorer.  Is the Adobe Elements Organizer tree just a snapshot or copy of the Windows folders and files at the time the media was imported?

Yes, again, unless it is a watched folder.

Is the organizer tree just a so-called CATALOG which needs to be periodically updated?

Yes.  The Organizer contains a catalog or database of files stored on your compuer hard drive.  The catalog of files may be displayed in several ways.  The folder view mirrors the Windows Explorer view.  But, in my opinion, viewing your images using the folder view defeats the whole object of the Organizer which is to create a database of files that can be easily searched.  Using the folder view merely gives you a file browser.  Creating the database obviously takes some work, and with respect to your particular question, each time you add media files to your computer storage, those files need to be added to the catalog.  In the parlance of the Organizer, the files must be Imported to the Catalog.

SECOND, if we do need to manually add the new folders and media added since the Windows folders were originally imported, how do we do that? 

Again, there are many ways to do this.  The Import menu gives you a number of options. 

First, you can import From Files and Folders.  If you add files to a folder that has already been imported, you can use this option to import the added files.  This will not create any duplicates.  Files already in the catalog will be ignored during the import.

Second, you can import From Camera or Card Reader.  In my opinion, this is the preferred way to move photos/videos from your camera or smartphone to your computer.  It takes care of copying all the files to your computer, gives you complete flexibility for storing and naming the files, and automatically imports the files into your catalog. 

Third, if the source of your media files is a scanner, you can import directly From Scanner.  This option also gives you the option of where you want to store the scanned photos on your computer, and it imports the scanned photos directly into the catalog.

Fourth, there is the option to Import in Bulk. This option will essentially search all of your computer (or at least the places you tell it to search) and will allow you to import any newly found files into the catalog.  You may want to use this option until you decide which workflow is best for you for storing new files on your computer and importing them to the Organizer's catalog.

Finally, in the Folder tree view, you can use a folder context menu to Import Media.  This will add any new media that have been added to the folder since the last import.  You may find this option useful if you know you have added files to a folder but they are not showing up in the catalog.

What about media folders and files that were already imported before?  Is this what the WATCHED FOLDER option is for in the organizer tree list context menu for a folder?  Will a watched folder be automatically updated for new subfolders, files, renamed files, or moved files?

If you create a watched folder and later add files to it outside of the Organizer's Import tools, you will be given the option to add those files to the catalog the next time you launch the program.  IIRC, if files have already been added to a folder before you make it a watched folder, those files will not be discovered.  Rather than use a folder context menu to make it Watched, I recommend that you use the File>Watch Folder menu to add the watched folders.  You then have the option to add an entire drive or master folder to be watched and all sub-folders can also be watched.

THIRD, our concern in working with the folder tree in the organizer is that we are not always sure If we are just changing a catalog copy or the actual Windows files and folders tree? 

Because the catalog is only a database, there is no copy of the files and folders stored on your computer.  The Organizer only works with the Windows files and folders displayed in your Explorer Window.

When we move, rename, or delete files and folders in the organizer, we assume the same changes are made to the actual Windows folders and files on the hard disk, is that correct?

Yes, that is correct.

FOURTH, there is a context menu option in the organizer's tree listing for revealing the folder in Windows File Explorer.  When we choose the option to reveal or open the folder in Windows Explorer, does Adobe Organizer maintain a link between the Windows folder view and the catalog?  In other words, can we add or rename folders in the Windows Explorer REVEAL window and have the organizer track the name and location changes for the folders and files?

No.  That will not work.

You may get various opinions about the best way to proceed.  However, here is what I would do.

Import the files into a catalog immediately.  All organization tasks can be accomplished within the Organizer without doing anything to the files stored on disk.  However, if you insist on reorganizing or renaming your folders, etc, you can do so (and should ONLY do so) in the Folders panel of the Organizer.

The Organizer gives you many automatic organizational and search functions, without any input from you.  Other features require some user input.  For example, the Organizer program will automatically analyze all of your photos for their content and will apply "smart tags" to them which can then be searched by you.  Face recognition analyzes your photos for faces.  Once the analysis has been made you can apply names to the faces and then use the Organizer to instantly find photos of a named person.

If you are asking whether the Organizer knows whether you have moved media or renamed a folder outside of the program, the answer is no.  That is why I said earlier that henceforth you should only use the Organizer for file management.