Can I force a REFRESH of the media file information in the ORGANIZER CATALOG

[cj02139]

PSE Organizer gathers certain media file information/data and stores them in its catalog/database when the file is first imported.  Is there a way to force the Organizer to refresh that information for individual, selected, or all files in the catalog

There are reasons, but I'd like not to open a discussion on the use of only PSE to manage media file (meta)data vs the user of individual tools (or file system capabilities) which are specifically designed for such tasks.

If such a thing is possible, what are the rules for what gets refreshed?

As I wrote the above, I realized that it is probably not available.  This is a sync problem with changes possible on both sides.  Which is most recent?  Who wins?  How does PSE know whether I want the time changes that I made in PSE or the (presumably new changed) values in the file EXIF data?  Which ratings?  Which tags?

Anyway, I'd still be interested in what if anything like this is available.

[MichelBParis]

I'll try to be short.

There are reasons, but I'd like not to open a discussion on the use of only PSE to manage media file (meta)data vs the user of individual tools (or file system capabilities) which are specifically designed for such tasks.

By @cj02139

Sorry, but it's necessary to state the reasons.

The organizer was designed nearly 20 years ago to specifically bring the huge advantage of a catalog to non expert computer users. That's why it works mainly in one way: getting info from the downloaded files once and then managing them in the catalog. The ability to 'write metadata to files' is a general requisite to make part of the organization available to external softwares and to the explorer/finder of your OS. That is available in most third party editing/organizing softwares. However, to avoid the complexity of syncing the metadata of files already imported on a catalog, Adobe decided to conceal this task to make things simpler. No real tech docs about the details of what you can sync again after having imported. If you are interested, you are supposed to act like a pro and to use either Lightroom or Bridge (the latter is free with Elements).

So just remember that the 'update thumbnail' command of the organizer also updates captions and dates as well as keywords and some other metadata fields. You'll have to test by yourself what gets synced back in the catalog. The key issues with syncing is that there are contradictions between the fields in th IPTC section, the exif and xmp fields. Missing fields are often copied from similar fields; different file formats (png, video) don't support all fields; proprietary camera manufacturer fields are rarely well covered.

In practice, the organizer and the editor can recover and manage the important IPTC fields added in your metadata. However, if you want more flexibility, my suggestion would be to rely on Bridge.

[cj02139]

Michael,

1. I noted in my post that this is fundamentally a sync, and that is not trivial, so once realized, I understand why it is not there.

2. I know nothing about Bridge but will research; thanks for mentioning.

3. Likewise 'update thumbnail'!  (so much I don't know that I don't know)

4. Yeah, metadata fields seem like a free-for-all sometimes; names vary, usage varies; mapping (to OS and apps) varies.  I'm trying to focus on a small subset of 'dependable' (I hope) fields such as: date-taken, tags, rating, and maybe author, notes/comments, subject/title(?).

5. Finally, as far as external tools are concerned, I'm going to work selected tool use into my processing before I import into PSE.

thanks again,

  -ceej

[cj02139]

So is "Update Thumbnail" a way to force Organizer to re-read file information and update the database?  That is, to perform the same actions that it did when first importing the image?  [I asked that question in another post; I'm not sure how to find it, but if I can I will return here and reference it.]

[Greg_S.]

@cj02139 I have moved your post here which is where I believe you intended it to go.  I shall also notify you by PM of the location of this post so you can keep track of it.

AFAIK, the update thumbnail does exactly what it says, and nothing more.  It updates the thumbnail that appears in the grid.

[cj02139]

Thanks for relocating this - but - the post to which it was attached claimed that the metadata in his catalog was changed/updated from the file on his computer when he did an update thumbnail.  I'll see if I can do an ecperiment.

YES - lo and behold, it does.  I added a keyword tag to an already imported photo.  When I saved it I saw the Information pane update with the new (previously not there) keyword tag.

AND - if I add an Author (from Win10 Explorer), then select the photo in Organizer and click on the ... next to IPTC, the edit IPTC Info panel opens and the newly added Author info is shown!

YUP - added a new keyword, edited the prior Author, entered a copywrite - and all got sucked in when I did an Update Thumbnail !

[Walter_H]

@Greg_S., FYI, I was curious about this "Update Thumbnail" feature. So, I just used GeoSetter to add GPS coordinates to two photos that I know did not have any. After using GeoSetter, I opened my PSE Organizer 2020 and updated thumbnails on those two photos. Wow, those two photos now show the GPS coordinates!

This is great! I'll now be able to add GPS coordinates to the photos from my Canon camera that doesn't have GPS capabilities and they'll show in the Organizer.

[MichelBParis]

@cj02139 I have moved your post here which is where I believe you intended it to go.  I shall also notify you by PM of the location of this post so you can keep track of it.

AFAIK, the update thumbnail does exactly what it says, and nothing more.  It updates the thumbnail that appears in the grid.

By @Greg_S.

Greg;

If I remember well, I advised to experiment personnally for this function which I have never seen mentioned in official docs. I am prudent because it always work well with captions, sometimes with different fields as shown by @cj02139 and @Walter_H (thanks for mentionning geosetter!) but sometimes such 'syncing' will have bugs (geosetting precision for instance).

A number of PSE users don't try to selectively update the IPTC fields: they remove all IPTC as shown in my other post and 'write metadata to files' from their catalog.

[Greg_S.]

@cj02139 I may have misinterpreted your question:  That is, to perform the same actions that it did when first importing the image?   Since you previously were asking about media analysis functions, I was focusing on that aspect of the actions that take place when an image is imported into the catalog.  And just to add to what Michel and Walter have said, metadata is rewritten to a file whenever it is saved.  So, I think you will find that any edit and save of a file will add the new metadata to the file.

And FWIW, I just added a keyword tag to a raw and jpeg file from a Sony camera and updating the thumbnails did not add the tag to the metadata.  It was only after I saved the metadata to file (Ctrl+W) that the new tag was added to the metadata.

[cj02139]

No, Updating Thumbnail appears to *read metadata from the file on disk and load it into Organizer*

Though I have not tested yet, making changes to metadata in Organizer does NOT affect the file-on-disk *until  you explicitly do a Write Metadata to File*.  So I am not surprised by your results!

When I next have time (2 weeks or so), I will again create a new/test catalog and experiment with which metadata get read/stored at import time, what gets written at Write Metadata time, and what gets (re)read at Update Thumbnail time.

As I said in my 2nd post and MIchael re-iterated, there can be unexpected results when changes are made in two different places (i.e. Organizer and File System) and then data are read/written.  Some fields are likely additive, e.g. the Keywords.  Some fields are likely 'last written wins', such as a caption, or author.  But I will try to run the tests and report the answers I get.