How to get Organizer to write image tags to image IPTC Keywords in the order of the hierarchy

Report · Dec 02, 2018

Hi all

When Organizer writes metadata (Ctrl+W) to a JPG file, it does not write it in the same order as the Image Tags hierarchy in the catalog. I am running Organizer 15.0 on a PC.

I have tried several methods to write and re-write the metadata to the file; selecting multiple files in the catalog and on the Information tab selecting "Remove IPTC Metadata" then saving. Then writing the metadata again (Ctrl+W) but the order that it is saved to the Keywords property of the file does not match that of the hierarchy.

Does anyone know if it is possible to have the data written in the same order as the hierarchy?

To illustrate why this is important; I have several categories; PEOPLE, PLACE, EVENT, RATING - they are all capitalised to stand out in the Keywords property of the file. In the hierarchy I will have people's names listed so what I see in the hierarchy would be say.....

PEOPLE

Jo Bloggs

Peter Pan

The Flash

Michael Knight

PLACE

Sydney

EVENT

Allan's 50th birthday

RATING

4 Star

This works to know what the data is when you look at the file separately from the catalog; which I do as I will share the file with people that do not have Organizer but they will know that Sydney is a place and not a person (this is just an example).

What I see written is not.....

PEOPLE; Jo Bloggs; Peter Pan; The Flash; Michael Knight; PLACE; Sydney; EVENT; Allan's 50th birthday; RATING; 4 Star

But rather....

PEOPLE; PLACE; Jo Bloggs; Peter Pan; The Flash; Michael Knight; Sydney; RATING; Allan's 50th birthday; EVENT; 4 Star

So, it is fairly random is the order it writes it and ultimately confusing.

Open to thoughts as great way to share the metadata in a more meaningful manner.

Thanks

Ed

Report · Dec 03, 2018

Hi Ed,

It would really help if you could share some snapshots showing your problem.

Thanks

Piyush

Report · Dec 03, 2018

Hi

I have put together a simple, tiny scale, example to illustrate.

In short, the image tags saved to the Keywords property of the picture are not in the same order as the Tags hierarchy. This means that when you share pictures with people who either do not have Organizer or do not have the hierarchy then it can be confusing to understand the tags.

Thanks for your interest.

Ed

Report · Dec 03, 2018

Thank you for the snapshots for our better understanding.

The "Edit IPTC Information" window is a part of Elements Organizer 15, which means other people who do not have Elements Organizer installed won't be able to see this window.

In order for them to check the metadata and other tags, they would need to go to the image file on windows explorer and then right click on it, click properties and then click on Details.

The below screenshots should show how other people will see the tags and ideally it should show in the same hierarchy as was in the Elements Organizer on your computer.

Please check this at your end and see if this works for you.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Piyush

Report · Dec 04, 2018

Hi Piyush

Thank you for your reply,

I think you have missed my point.

The order of the keywords written on the keywords property in the order

that where added by the user and not the order of the hierarchy.

Assume a hierarchy of PLACE; Sydney; PERSON; Ed Prosser; Vanya Wilkinson;

RATING; 4 Star is added to a picture.

This matches the hierarchy of the images tag written do the Keywords

Property; however the order in which they are written to Keywords is

according to the sequence that they were selected and not the order from

the hierarchy.

So if I selected Sydney first then 4 Star, then PERSON, PLACE and RATING

finally only Ed Prosser and Vanya Wilkinson. It would look fine in the

Image Tags which is based on the hierarchy of the image tree but the

keywords property of the image would be Sydney; 4 Star; PERSON; PLACE;

RATING. The order Keywords are written should not be accordingly the order

they were written but rather the order as per defined by Tag Hierarchy.

This helps great to understand the Keywords property of image files that do

not have organizer; rather you can open the file and who who is in the

photo, what event it was taken in who was present, they age group and a

rating for the photos. All being clearly explained because the categories,

sub-categories and keywords are being written in an understandable order.

I hope you better understand the issue - i could make a video to

simulate the result, I system this us standard functionality but at the

least it should be an enhancement request.

Thank you in advance for your feedback.

Ed

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 at 18:58, piyushc76752533 <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

Report · Dec 04, 2018

Well, I am afraid, however as if now we have tags order defined by the Elements Organizer which defaults to Tags, People, Places, Events, and the same Tag order is written to the actual file when you press (CTRL + W).

We appreciate your feedback regarding this issue and You may submit the same here on the wish form.

Thanks,

Piyush

Report · Dec 04, 2018

Hi Piyush

Thank you for your reply. I believe you are missing the point I am trying to make.

I have uploaded a video which I hope explains better. It shows that the order of the Tags written to the Keywords property of the file are not in the order of the hierarchy (note: I am not using Organizer's People, Places or Events tags; rather just the generic Tags).

I look forward to your reply.

Regards,

Ed

Report · Dec 04, 2018

Hi,

I just got a reminder from Adobe to say that I have not replied to this thread and that it will be closed in 5 days. I have responded - see above - with a detailed video to try and explain that the issue is not solved and give a better explanation of what the issue is.

Please do not just close this thread because you cannot answer it. Rather say you cannot answer it.

I AM WAITING for YOUR response.

Regards, Ed

Report · Dec 05, 2018

Ed,

So, it is fairly random is the order it writes it and ultimately confusing.

That's not your problem. In whichever sort order the tags are written in your metadata header, the software reading those tags will apply its own rules in the way it will display or retrieve them. The sort order is generally based on file name, date or other according to the indexing system of the reading software. Just have a look at the way files are displayed in your Explorer or Finder. You can choose more than 20 sort orders, especially for dates. The most common system is sort by filename, which takes into account the capitalisation. There are no indexing system which is able to interpret the full capitalisation to create a hierarchy based on the fact that top level are in full capitals. The index is based on the standard sort order which will sort by the first character, then by the second and so on.

You have devised your own, smart and logical system to recover a hierarchy, but whatever sytem you use must be understood and interpreted by the reader in its own software. You have to find an alphabetical indexing sort order which is able to read your tags in any order and to sort it in your way. Then you have to explain your idea to help the reader to decode the hierarchy.

Even if I am wrong in my explanation, the reason your issue will not get any interest from other users like you is that the hard fact behind it is thinking only in hierachical management. That system is not the only one. The huge advantage of the catalogs in PSE or LR is that they also (and mainly) rely on a relational database allowing multicriteria searches. The reader can search for 'people AND Sydney', just as they do when googling a search.

And the result is that your reader must have the same software as you have to understand your organisation.

Report · Dec 05, 2018

Thank you for the clear description in the form of a video.

I understand that you only want to use tags panel for tagging your pictures and I tried replicating the same keyword structure as yours at my end, it seems that only version 15 has this particular problem, however when I tried the same thing in the latest version which is version 2019, it actually worked keeping the same order.

Here is the screenshot which was taken from Elements Organizer 2019.

Thanks,

Piyush

Report · Dec 05, 2018

Hi Piyush

Your findings are not correct.

I have now used the Mac version (version 17/2019) to illustrate the issue and it is the same problem on both version 15 and version 17.

Accordingly, there is something that you did not do correctly in your test.

Please follow the steps I perform in my video from the Mac's version 17 (i.e. 2019) below and you will see that the issue does indeed exist.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards, Ed

Report · Dec 08, 2018

Hi Piyush

There has been no update to this unresolved issue.

I do not seem to be able to action a reply.

I uploaded a video which shows your screenshot was a false-positive. Note: the video was made using Elements Organizer 2019 on Mac.

Please can Adobe Support address the issue one way or the other.

Regards, Ed