move catalog to a laptop with existing PSE 2020 prg installed.

[Grace Muskokan]

I am preparing to leave home for my winter place. I use a desktop here but a laptop when I travel. I have the program installed on both. I thought I had moved the Catalog to an EHD last winter but I see now that the catalog is different on the laptop from that on the desktop.

I have completed a Full Backup that includes buc and tly files as well as BOOO files. I reconnected, optimized and repaired before making the Backup.

#1 Can I somehow update the Catalog on the laptop to conform to the newer version  in the saved Backup?

#2 Do I need to reinstall PSE 2020 on the laptop in order to do a Restore using my Backup?

#3 At present my catalog is shown as below but I wanted to have it only on the EHD so that I could switch from desktop to laptop seamlessly. Is this possible?

I hope I have explained the goal I am trying to achieve, to have my catalog on an EHD that can be used by both devices.

Elements Organizer 18.0.0.0
Core Version: 18.0 (20201207.m.154403)
Language Version: 18.0 (20201207.m.154403)

Current Catalog:
Catalog Name: My Catalog
Catalog Location: C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs\My Catalog\
Catalog Size: 75.7MB
Catalog Cache Size: 856.8MB

System:
Operating System Name: Windows 10
Operating System Version: 10.0
System Architecture: Intel CPU Family:6 Model:5 Stepping:3 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2
Built-in Memory: 7.8GB
Free Memory: 530.1MB

[Greg_S.]

It is not sufficient for you to have just the catalog folder on your laptop.  You must also have all of the photos/videos within the catalog database stored on your external hard drive.  So, please confirm that your desktop catalog is pointing to the files stored on your EHD.  And I'm talking about the original files, not the B000 . . . files that are copied as part of the backup. 

And just to be clear:  The Organizer's catalog does not make copies of your files to some hidden location.  It merely points to the files wherever you have saved them on your computer's hard drive(s).  (If you import files from a camera, phone or memory card reader, using the Adobe Photo Downloader, the files will be copied to a location that you choose.)

[Grace Muskokan]

I have really messed up then. I have my photos stored on an EHD that I backup to a second EHD. But my catalog seems to show they are coming from a Catalog Backup. When I noticed the years 2010 and 20011 missing I brought them in directly from the Photo Backup By Year folder on the EHD and there is a second catalog location by that name. Does that mean I need to bring each year that is in the Catalog Backup folder  in again?

[Greg_S.]

I will be back in a few hours to give you full instructions what to do.  Don't worry - it's all fixable.

[Grace Muskokan]

Thank you, what good news!

[Greg_S.]

I still need some further clarification of what you have done, how the backups were made, where the original photos are etc.

The goal will be to put all of your original photos on an EHD which you can plug into your desktop and laptop computers with the same drive letter.  You will also need to put a single catalog folder on the EHD which you will then be able to open from either computer.  Changes made to the catalog will then be available on both computers.

So, here are my questions:

1.  Where were your original photos stored before you imported them into the catalog you are using on your desktop?  Are some or all of the original photos stored on your C drive?  (I notice that the jpg file in your first screenshot is in a deep folder hieararchy on your E drive and that it appears to be an original file.)
2. You say you have photos backed up on two EHDs.  What are the drive letters of the two EHDs?  Or do you only attach one at a time to your computer?
3. If the original files are on one of the EHDs, how do you back them up to the second EHD?  Do you simply copy them from one drive to the other, or do you use the Elements backup (or some third party backup software) to create that second backup?
4. You say you have a full backup that includes the necessary .buc and .tly files.  Do you believe this backup contains all of the files that you want in your Elements catalog?  And where is that backup stored?
5. The 2010 sub-folders are in two different Photo Backup by Year parent folders.  The parent folders are in different hierarchies and contain different months.  Can you explain how these folders were created.  Did you click and drag the folders in the My Folders panel of the Organizer or did you use some other method?  Either way, are all of the folders available in the catalog that you used to take the screenshots?
6. Ultimately, how do you want your photos to be organized on the hard drive?  Is it sufficient for the files to be stored under a simple hiearchy with a main parent folder such as My Pictures and sub-folders containing the date-taken names you have given them?  Or do you want the sub-folders organized under a hierarchy that also is divided into years?
7. You have two different catalogs - one on each computer.  How did you create the second catalog?  Did you restore a catalog backup from the first one?  Or did you import all of the photos from the EHD into the second catalog?

Depending on your answers, I may have some further questions.  In the meantime, here is an article that may be useful, since it is likely that you will be able to do a new Restore of a full backup.

[Grace Muskokan]

1 Where were your original photos stored before you imported them into the catalog you are using on your desktop?  

Original photos are from many sources. Some were from C drive my Photos, some from All Scanned on EHD, sa few from One Drive, but mainly from Photo Backup by Year ( PBBY). The PBBY folder was moved several times from C drive then to 2 different EHDs.

Yes the first image is a recent one . I scanned it and stored it in my All Scanned file which is organized by family name folders. I think I opened the photos as I scanned them and edited them a bit then saved them over the original. so the image in the Organizer should be the version in the All Scanned folder.

I am beginning to understand from your help that I need to keep the source and the catalog in the same location and not move them. I did not understand this before. 

2  What are the drive letters of the two EHDs?  Or do you only attach one at a time to your computer?

The Drive letters are E and F. I see now it would have been better to attach only one at a time and keep the Backup one disconnected until I was making Backups. That is where some of the problem came from, I moved the PBBY folder to a different EHD without knowing that it had to stay on the same drive as the Catalog. At that time I trulu believed my Catalog was on the EHD. Now I find that it is on C Drive.

3 Copying original files. I have just used Explorer and Copy. I see now that was wrong too. I get it now that everything has to be moved within Organizer but I didn't always know that.

4 Do you believe this backup contains all of the files that you want in your Elements catalog?  And where is that backup stored? 

Yes I believe it has all of the files I have imported to Organizer. My full backup is stored on the F Drive and also on E drive. Each includes the BOO files and bucc and tly. On examination though I found an old Backup that has the folders as I used to have them organized by year alone. I expect that was when i began to rebuild my Catalog by bringing in each year"s subfolders and culling so that I could delete unwanted files in the Organizer and on the EHD. It is on E drive in a complicated structure.

5  Did you click and drag the folders in the My Folders panel of the Organizer or did you use some other method?   

I saw that the first 2010 folder did not contain all of the folders for that year so I began to import the missing day folders. I see now that it was after I had moved the PBBY to the second EHD so it made another section on the Catalog Tree. Is that correct? I didn't know I could drag and drop folders from within the Catalog structure on the panel on the left.

6 How do you want them organized

I would prefer to have them the way I used to with just a Year folder and then the original file by date as a subfolder. I think part of this problem arose when I tried to bring photos from My Pictures on the laptop into my new desktop. I hope I can learn to understand this process so I can use the EHD on both devices alternately.

7 I think I did not Restore, I began to rebuild the catalog. Brought each folder in, culled and deleted duds on hard drive thru Organizer. Then when I moved the Photo Backup by Year folder to the second EHD I made it even worse. 

Just working through your questions has taught me a lot. Not sure where to go from here though. Thanks for your time in reading this lengthy reply.

[Greg_S.]

Thanks for your detailed responses and screenshots.  I think the best strategy is going to be to do a restore of the full backup onto one of the EHDs.  It really doesn't matter which one as long as space is not an issue.  Ideally, you would use perhaps a third EHD since you would then have a clean hierarchy structure without the mess that currently exists.  This will avoid confusion in the future and will be much easier to manage going forward.  Since the full backup exists on an EHD, it doesn't really matter whether you use your desktop or laptop to perform the Restore operation.

Here is what I would do in your situation:

• Create a new folder on the root of the EHD that is going to have the shared catalog and folders.  Name it something like My Photos. 
• In the following Restore Catalog dialog, choose the New Location option and Browse to the new folder you have created and select it.  Also select the Restore Original Folder Location option:

• After the Restoration has been completed, you should have all of your original photos located on the EHD.  The folder structure will still be a bit of a mess, but you can clean that up later using the click and drag method mentioned earlier.  Make sure that the My Folders panel is in Tree View.  You may have to right-click on the "My Photos"  folder and select Show All SubFolders from the context menu in order to see the entire hierarchy of folders.
• As I think you now already know, all management of your catalog photos must be conducted within the Organizer.   By this, I mean all file move, delete and rename operations.
• If all has gone as planned, your catalog folder which contains all database information for your files, including their location, tag and face recogntion information will also be under your newly created parent folder.  I recommend that you move this to a different location on the same EHD as the photos.  I'm assuming that the catalog folder is named My Catalog.  You can use Windows File Explorer to cut and paste this folder (and all of its contents including sub-folders) to a different location -  even the root of the EHD.   You will then be able to Browse to the My Catalog folder in the File>Manage Catalogs dialog on both computers.  You will need to select the Custom Location to do this.  Alternatively, once the restoration has taken place, on each computer simply double-click on the file named catalog.pse18db (found in the catalog folder) and the catalog should open in the Organizer.

One final point.  Make sure that whichever EHD you use, it has the same drive letter on both computers.

[Grace Muskokan]

Thank you very much Greg. I will try it in the morning when my brain is fresh . I'm encouraged to think I might be able to sort this out. Will let you know how it goes.

Grace

[Grace Muskokan]

Hi again, I think I am ready to restore now. I have backups on My other EHD and one a smaller one. this is my all cleaned up EHD readyfor the next step I think. Should I have formatted the desk to have it completelu clean or is this OK?

[Greg_S.]

I'm a little puzzled by your screenshot which shows two G drives.  I assume you are going to use the E drive as your shared drive.  As long as you know what is in each folder, it looks clean enough to use.  But are you using the Photo Backup By Year folder as your main folder to use for the restoration.  If so, you may end up with multiple folders with the same name.  I suggest something more basic like My Photos.

[Grace Muskokan]

I guess I still have not understood what I'm doing.

Is this clean drive only going to be used as my catalog location?

Why do I call the folder "My Photos" if it is not going to contain photos? I thought at first the My Photos By Year, my collection of camera photos from 2005 onwards, had to be in this main top folder too. But now I think it can stay on the other drive and I would just make it a Watched Folder. Is that right?

Or do I put the Photo Backup by Year  on the same EHD as the "My Photos" folder.

As to the weird double appearance of whatever drive I'm using, G in the screenshot, I don't know what is going on there. I'll take the desktop in to ask the computer guy about that. But that's a "later" problem.

As I understand it now I could have a small 2 TB EHD that only contains my catalog. It will have one folder on it called "My Photos" (though it could be called "My Catalog Location"). I use this EHD whenever I want to use PSE and plug it into my desktop or laptop. When I want to add photos I point it to the drive that has the stored Photo Backup by Year on it. The catalog will then create a second section on the catalog tree for photos from there.

I don't know what process I used before when each folder came in to the main catalog file by Year with subfolders for each day's shooting. But I can live with the catalog structure however it is as long as I get this set up so that I can use it on two devices with one catalog.

Sorry to add more questions to this file. The first paragraph is really the immediate thing I have to know. Does the top level folder "My Photos" contain photos plus catalog?

[Greg_S.]

Grace, I think you are still not understanding the difference between the catalog and your photo files.  Let me try to explain it this way:

• Think of your hard drive as an art museum containing your artwork.  The museum has different types of art such as Renaisance or Impressionist (folders).  There may be several galleries for each type of art such as Reubens or Picasso (sub-folders).
• Your catalog is like the museum's visitor's guide or catalog.  The guide does not contain the actual artwork.  It contains photo-representations of the art and/or names of the artists and their work.  Most importantly, it points you to where each gallery is to be found, and you can use it to browse through the museum's collections to find what you are interested in.
• If a painting is removed from the museum or moved to a different gallery, the museum's guide is useless to know how to find it unless the guide is updated.  And that is why it is essential to only use the Organizer to move, delete or rename a photo within the catalog.  If you use a different application like File Explorer to manage your photos, it is like they have been stolen and will be treated as missing by the Organizer (museum).
• If you use different catalogs on different hard drives to manage your photos, it is like using last year's museum guide to find the latest exhibit.

So, to answer your original questions:

1.   The most efficient, accurate and easiest way to work on two computers in two different locations is to place both your catalog folder and your photos on the same external hard drive which can be switched between the two computers.  Elements will then be using identical information on both computers.  Changes made to the catalog (such as adding or deleting photos, or tagging or editing them) will be made in one place (the shared EHD).
2.   You need to have the same version of Elements installed on both computers.  Catalogs are not compatible between different versions.  However, as I have said before, it does not matter which computer you use to restore the backup on the EHD.  Each computer will be able to access all of the necessary information on the hard drive.
3. I think it should now be clear that all of the photo/artwork MUST be on the shared external drive in order for the catalog to be in sync on both computers.

@Grace Muskokan said:  Why do I call the folder "My Photos" if it is not going to contain photos? 

That folder will contain photos (in sub-folders).  This is where the restore process will copy your original files to according to your existing hierarchy, if you follow my suggestion.

@Grace Muskokan said:  I thought at first the My Photos By Year, my collection of camera photos from 2005 onwards, had to be in this main top folder too.  . . .   Or do I put the Photo Backup by Year on the same EHD as the "My Photos" folder.

That will be done automatically by the restore process.  All of your original photos will be copied to the EHD in whatever location (folder) you choose.  If you choose one of your existing folder names as the name of the main folder, you will have the same name existing under it.  You can do this if you want to, but in my opinion this will be confusing.

@Grace Muskokan said: But now I think [the My Photos by Year folder] can stay on the other drive and I would just make it a Watched Folder. Is that right?

No!  Hopefully, I have already explained why this is incorrect.

@Grace Muskokan said:  As I understand it now I could have a small 2 TB EHD that only contains my catalog. It will have one folder on it called "My Photos" (though it could be called "My Catalog Location"). I use this EHD whenever I want to use PSE and plug it into my desktop or laptop. When I want to add photos I point it to the drive that has the stored Photo Backup by Year on it. The catalog will then create a second section on the catalog tree for photos from there.

You are suggesting that you use two EHDs - one for the catalog folder only and one for your original photos.  While this would work, there is no reason to set up this way.  The catalog folder takes up very little space.  It does not contain any of your photos.  (At most, it contains very small thumbnails of your photos.)  There is no reason to have it alone on a 2TB drive.  The folder for my catalog which contains more than a quarter million photos and videos takes up about 20GB. 

@Grace Muskokan said:  When I want to add photos I point it to the drive that has the stored Photo Backup by Year on it. The catalog will then create a second section on the catalog tree for photos from there.

If you want to add photos from a camera, card reader or scanner, the Organizer gives you tools to copy the files to any location you choose.  The catalog will then keep track of whatever hard drive and folder/sub-folder you choose.  It doesn't care where you store them.  It is only because you want to use the catalog on two computers, that you must place them on a hard drive that is shared by the two devices.

I hope my explanations have not confused you further.

[Grace Muskokan]

I now have a new 2TB EHD called T7Sheild. I have one folder on it called My Photos. Is that all I put on it and then do the Restore?

Or do I also put  a folder with the  original photos that it points to inside the Organizer?

I get that the Catalog has a thumbnail of each image. But if I want to access the original I will still need to have them on my new portable drive, right?

Here is the setup so far. Am I ready to follow your directions for Restore now?

[Greg_S.]

Yes, you are ready to go.  When the Restore dialog asks you where to put the backup, select the My Photos folder as the new location.

[Grace Muskokan]

thanks so much for staying with me on this. I think I have the first part done. At least it seems to me the catalog is on the T7 drive. Whew, something accomplished today. Is there a way I can mark this thread so I can go back and read it when I want to refer to some of your answers? It has really helped me to think this through.

Here's a screenshot of the catalog folder section. I have already started to drag and drop. I moved  the 2006 folders from where they were nexsted down below to be right under My Catalog. How exciting! I might actually get this back to some recognizable order.

does this look right?

[Greg_S.]

It looks to me like the My Catalog folder is the database folder that should NOT contain any of your photos (or photo folders).  It has been placed there by the Restore operation.  Please give us a screenshot of that folder in Windows File Explorer so that we can see the full folder contents.  If I am right, the folder will contain the catalog.pse18db file.

If it is in fact the catalog database folder, you need to return the photo sub-folders within it to their original location, or at least to under the My Photos folder.  Use the drag-and-drop method to do this. 

Do not touch the Themes folder as that is part of the catalog database folder.

Once you confirm my suspicions, you should move the My Catalog folder to another location on the drive.  You can use Windows File Explorer to perform a cut and paste operation for this folder.  You can create a new parent folder on the root of Drive E and call it something like Elements Catalogs.  It would also be OK to leave it on the root of the E drive.  The net result will then be either E:\Elements Catalogs\My Catalog or just E:\My Catalog.

As for saving this thread for future reading, you can bookmark the URL in your browser.  Or once you are signed into the forum, you can click on your profile picture and click on the View Community Profile link.  You will then be taken to a list of posts that you have made, and they will contain a link to this thread.  If you have email notifications turned on, you should have received a bunch of emails linking to this thread.

[Grace Muskokan]

Here is the windows Explorer shot. It does contain the file you mentioned.

[Greg_S.]

Yes, you have confirmed what I suspected.  So, now, do as I suggested in my last post:

• Move the three folders marked in the following screenshot back to where they were before (under Organizer backup 30 April 2023 folder??)

• In Windows File Explorer cut and paste the My Catalog folder to the root of the E drive (or to another new folder on the root of the E drive).

[Grace Muskokan]

Photos moved for 3 folders inside Organizer.

New Folder on E Drive T7 called Elements Catalogs that contains My Catalog.

Now if I understand you the Folders that contain photos, Family Name All Scanned and Photo Backup By Year need to have the actual photos copied to the Folders that are located in the My Photos folder. That way the catalog has access to the originals and any changes made in Organizer or Editor will be updated there.

Have I got that right?

I don't think  I put Folders for each on the T& drive that are not inside the MY Photos folder.

[Greg_S. · Accepted solution]

@Grace Muskokan said:  Now if I understand you the Folders that contain photos, Family Name All Scanned and Photo Backup By Year need to have the actual photos copied to the Folders that are located in the My Photos folder. 

If you had a proper backup and the restore was successful, you need do nothing further.  All the photos should be there and there is nothing to copy. 

Any new photos should be saved in your desired hierarchy of folders somewhere on the shared EHD.  (It doesn't have to be in any particular folder but to keep things more simple, you should keep everything under the My Photos folder in whatever system of folders you want to maintain. 

You should now open the catalog named My Catalog on both computers, one at a time (with the E drive connected to the active computer),  As mentioned earlier, perhaps the easiest way to do this is to use Windows File Explorer to navigate to the My Catalog folder on the E drive and double-click on the catalog.pse18db file.  The correct catalog should then open within the Organizer.  Alternatively, go to the File>Manage Catalogs dialog, select Custom Location and Browse to the E:\Elements Catalogs folder.  Your catalog named My Catalog should appear in the list.  Select and Open it.

[Grace Muskokan]

Thank you for your time and your patience. I now have the catalog available to use on both devices. I wish I had asked for help years ago, but at least going forward I have a workable system for travel. I will be blessing you every time I add another shot of a "Lifer bird" to my catalog, and now when I return I do not need to struggle to update.

I am very grateful for the help,

Grace

[Greg_S.]

Glad I could help you sort it out, Grace.

[Grace Muskokan]

I saw the catalog work when I moved the E drive to my laptop,  a while ago when you first helped me set up my E drive catalog. but now although I can open the catalog and tags are shown for each photo, the photos do not appear. I hope this is something simple that I can adjust, but I fear that it is something drastic that will be a whole other problem.

Do you have any idea what has happened?

[Grace Muskokan]

I did a restart and the photos returned. Halleluja!

I am confused by the fact that photos I added to the catalog on the desktop do not appear on the laptop catalog. So it seems  I have the same catalog open but it is keeping a different version according to the device I use to import photos?