Photoshop Elements 15 no longer works with Mac Big Sur?

[defaultwmxlapwb3jw4]

Re Downloaded Photoshop Elements 15 from Adobe site (not Mac Applications) and it says "Install" needs to be updated. The developer of this app needs to update it to work with this version of macOS (Big Sur 11.5.1). Contact the developer for more information.

It was working fine a week ago. So presume even though I have pad for Elements 15 back in 2017 Adobe are forcing me to upgrade to continue using?

[Greg_S. · Accepted solution]

Some would say Apple is forcing you to upgrade by not making older programs compatible with their new OS. 

[Test Screen Name]

Apple went to some trouble to make sure such old apps cannot run. If you upgrade the system, with it already installed, you sometimes get a few weeks or months before Apple have their way. New Mac, new system, New apps!  It's all part of the Joy Of Mac.  

[Giuggio]

It seems as somebody is blaming Apple for that, but I would rather blame Adobe for being greedy. Please note that Apple introduced the 64 bits tecnhology with macOS 10.5 Leopard in 2007. It's the software manufactorer to provide support for both versions, especially in this occasion when the software produced is only 5 years old.

[MichelBParis]

To @Giuggio 

As a matter of fact, it's not 'somebody', but nearly everybody who considers that Apple is to blame because they decided NOT to support old applications. The 'bricks' of code which are used in the operating system for external applications to work are no longer there. That's a fact. The result is that old applications don't work. To get applications to work, you have to create new code, that takes time and money. You are expecting Adobe (and other software companies) to spend this money for free for you?

What does 'support' mean? For an OS manufacturer, support means keeping as much as possible compatibility with older applications when they create new versions. That's difficult as time passes by, but it's their choice. They save a lot of money by not keeping compatibility with old sofware and they get attractive by offering new features incompatible with old apps. They risk losing old users?  They weigh the balance: if they have most users willing to always upgrade to the new solutions, they are winning.

I am a Windows users, but I don't really blame Apple for their choice, which makes them so profitable. They have a majority of users following them blindly anyway. You should rather realize that you should blame other Apple users for expecting Adobe and other software companies to compensate for Apple economical decisions.

(Note that with Windows, I can practically run all the 20 versions of PSE since 20 years).

Fair support for a software company means trying to keep solutions working so long as the hardware and software environment is kept. It does not imply offering new features for free.

You say the software is 'only 5 years old'. I say you are dreaming. The software is already 5 years old, which is also much too old for your hardware.

[Giuggio]

Hello MichaelBParis

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I absolutely don't want to create discussions in any case but I think I have to add only few words in order to avoid misunderstandings.

As mentioned before, Apple has introduced the 64 bits technology in their machines starting from 2007. Adobe has produced a new version of Elements every year. Nevertheless the Elements version 15, which has been packed in 2016 and sold in 2017, only supports 32 bits machines. This means that Adobe had the possibility to support the 64 bits at least during 9 long years - but they have decided not to do it. As the Elements serie is mainly addressed private, home users, like myself, these users don't buy new versions every year - sorry to contraddict you - but only when strictly necessary, for example when the product has absolutely amazing, necessary new features worth of buying again.

[MichelBParis]

Hello MichaelBParis

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I absolutely don't want to create discussions in any case but I think I have to add only few words in order to avoid misunderstandings.

As mentioned before, Apple has introduced the 64 bits technology in their machines starting from 2007. Adobe has produced a new version of Elements every year. Nevertheless the Elements version 15, which has been packed in 2016 and sold in 2017, only supports 32 bits machines. This means that Adobe had the possibility to support the 64 bits at least during 9 long years - but they have decided not to do it. As the Elements serie is mainly addressed private, home users, like myself, these users don't buy new versions every year - sorry to contraddict you - but only when strictly necessary, for example when the product has absolutely amazing, necessary new features worth of buying again.

By @Giuggio

In similar discussions, the focus is clearly on the 64-bits evolution. Contrary to the common belief, that's not the only factor is making old applications no longer valid. There were other changes with the same result at the same time. If you read other technical discussions about the issue, you'll see that even if the most part of PSE15 was already working in 64-bits, some peripheral parts, like installers were not. Some users have been using PSE15 later until they had to reinstal it. Mac users of PSE15 were warned  in advance that they should keep their older OS version: PSE15 works as before for them. It's an oversimplification to reduce the issue with the 64-bits change. To support a new important version of OS, the software industry must work on its real, definitive specifications, not technical trends. Don't believe they were available even one year before the OS version release. That requires a lot of work and very often after the first compatible release,  a couple of years is required before full compatibility is achieved.

To keep it simple, Adobe or any software provider will not upgrade each older versions of the last 5 years, they will create a new version and keep their efforts on that latest version.

So, either you have a subscription to a service offering always the latest updated version (ideal for pros) or you manage your softwares according to your budget and the reality of the changes in software/hardware. Just a personal feeling: I am now seeing that my 4 years old computer is already obsolete. My other older computers can still run with difficulty. I am upgrading PSE each year only to be able to help in this forum. Otherwise, upgrading Elements every 3 to 5 years seems very reasonable. That makes it much more affordable than a subscription. Of course, I understand the frustration of low budget Mac users who needed to change more frequently the last years. I hope for them that next years will be easier.

For people with

[Tom Blackthorne]

1 Had problems with Elements 15

2 Tried to reinstall but the installer can no longer be used

3 Cursed Apple and Adobe

4 Bought the 2022 update

5 It won't work with Monterey

So I now have 2 paid up "perpetual" licences neither of which work. I understand your point Michel (and appreciate your compassion for those on a budget) but Adobe can't have it both ways: they either have to continue to update older versions, or at least make sure that the most recent version keeps up with changes in the OS.

[Giuggio]

As for me, the last month I took the decision to drop the version 15 om Mac - it's simply not supported anymore because it's all written in old 32 bits code. Fine, I then bought the latest Photoshop and Elements version 19, published in 2020.

Just image, Monterey was rolled out one month later and what happened to my newly bought programs? Photoshop doesn't work. I just had the pleasure to use it for only three weeks. The only way to get support was by chat, where a supporter wrote that "I have to wait for an update, which nobody knows when it will be ready".

This is the last time I buy an Adobe product.

[MichelBParis]

1 Had problems with Elements 15

2 Tried to reinstall but the installer can no longer be used

3 Cursed Apple and Adobe

4 Bought the 2022 update

5 It won't work with Monterey

So I now have 2 paid up "perpetual" licences neither of which work. I understand your point Michel (and appreciate your compassion for those on a budget) but Adobe can't have it both ways: they either have to continue to update older versions, or at least make sure that the most recent version keeps up with changes in the OS.

By @Tom Blackthorne

I am interested in facts, not suppostions. When I say that "I understand the frustration", that does not mean in any way that I feel "compassion" for those on a low budget.  I could suggest a number of other solutions than Adobe for free or low cost softwares to satisfy their hobby. If you want to discuss the facts I have described in my answer and that many angry users don't want to read, please do.

Based on those facts, Mac users can make the most economically by understanding that:

- Each new OS version will be incompatible in some way with the older version. Each OS is a piece of code on which external application programmers build their own code. If you change or remove a  number of "code bricks", the old applications won't work on the new OS. So, just keep the old OS version until applications are re-programmed for that new OS. And if you also change your hardware every year? Sorry, I don't feel compassion.

- Facts: Apple has their own way to make (big) money. Adobe and other application providers must make money by providing competitive products for both new OS and hardware versions, but also for the existing user base. Whether you like it or not, they have proven that their software renting solution is the most successful especially for pro users. Regular income and frequent updating of the software to follow OS and hardware innovations.

- Another fact: Do you math. If 5 PSE users quit PSE and one subscribes for the Creative Plan, Adobe does not lose anything. Typical PSE users reasonably upgrade every 4 or 5 years. They can't expect the frequent updates of subscription softwares some are dreaming they are entitled to.

- The support policy of Elements has never changed: only the current version is updated. New OS or hardware are only supported in the next yearly version. Nothing new. Elements, the "consumer" version stays a perpetual license with all its limitations.

[Tom Blackthorne]

Michel maybe you should read the whole of my message. I too am interested in facts. I apologise for accusing you of compassion. The idea seems to be extremely distasteful to you.

The fact is that in an attempt to have a workable version of the software I bought Elements 2022 (so new it's named for next year!) and it is not compatible with the current Mac OS. No matter how you flip that omelette, it's a diservice. Developers receive new OS versions long before the general public and any developer worthy of the name keeps on top of it.

You say that "New OS or hardware are only supported in the next yearly version." If that is true the current MacOS won't work until Elements 2023 so you can't buy Elements to work on your new Mac until then.

That seems like a very poor business model even if it is for the miserably unentitled "hobby" users.

[MichelBParis]

Tom,

I had read and undertood all of your previous post. Re-reading it as well as your current post, I do realize that it will be difficult to help you which is the main reason I am posting in this forum. I think that for the most part my previous post did give the necessary explanations for the present situation. I don't take your word that you don't care for facts, you do;  so, what can you expect realistically now?

- following the first posts about the Monterey issue, the PSE team has acknowledged (privately) the precise stumbling block preventing the compatibility and that they are working on a solution.

- Note that the issue does not seem to appear in any other Adobe software, so it's only an Elements only issue.

- Officially, you should not expect Adobe staff to recognize the issue since the system requirements for PSE2022 don't mention Monterey. They are not allowed in any way to blame Apple or Microsoft in any way, and in this forum, MS users (80% of PSE users worldwide) won't dare to discuss with angry Mac users. And the root of the recurring problem for the last OS versions is that technology is urging to disable old functions and to add new requirements, making new OS incompatible with older apps. That is also true for Microsoft and you can already see similar questions for Windows_11. So what is crucial is to be informed. to avoid a premature hardware or OS change. In that respect Mac users had been warned about 3 years in advance for the PSE15 new requirements.

- I agree with you that the naming of the software based on years is a poor marketing choice, but you see it everywhere now. We are not yet in 2022, so, based on previous history, what do I expect personnally? The PSE team is investigating the issue which had not been discovered with the pre-release OS version. I am confident they will solve it soon and issue a PSE2022 update as soon as they can. When? Perhaps in a few weeks, but that can be a little later if they want to take advantage of the update for fixing other bugs, optimizing compatibility with W11 or updating the ACR version.

[Tom Blackthorne]

Well I'm heartened that you think they are working on an update. I had misunderstood you to say that they don't do OS fixes until yearly updates.

I have no issue with 15 going out of date. It lasted well for me and I realise this is part of the process and I am grateful that Adobe provides a "perpetual" licence alternative to the subscription scheme which you rightly point out makes far more money for them. However I believe that in providing the software they do have a responsibility to their clients to do what they can to keep it compatible with the latest Mac and MS OS's. In part because I think there is a side to the business model that you didn't take into account: I believe that Elements soaks up many users that do not earn enough from their use of the software to buy into the subcription scheme but who use it regularly enough to want to use it anyway. I believe that a large part of the business model is giving those users an alternative to piracy. And while they've got them using their products if their circumstances change they will be easier to convert to the subcription model. I get the "1 person converted to CC is worth 5 Elements users" but I think that for most of Elements' target base the choice happens far earlier: "I am not earning enough to justify the CC subscription so I either go with Affinity et al. or I pirate."

For this reason I think Elements is worth more to Adobe than just the money paid for it and for that reason I think it is important that they invest in making sure that their Elements customers are happy.

[Tom Blackthorne]

and by "Happy" I just mean happily using the products they bought. I'm not naive enough to expect them to care about whether they are actually happy or not!

[JimSliff]

Disagree.  Elements 15 ran fine under Big Sur on my MacBook Pro until I had it repaired and had to re-install some software.   Elements (and Premiere) 15 worked FINE with the same Mac operating system 10 days earlier - and it's ADOBE, not Apple, that will not let me install my working version or Photoshop Elements from the damned disc with the serial number.  Apple isn't blocking it - ADOBE is!  They want me to pay their absurd subscription charges.  I'm on a fixed income, and  can't afford it.  I called and they won't make exceptions.  In othr words, told me to kiss their corporate backside.

So - even though it worked FINE with the same operating system 10 days ago, Adobe will no longer let what I PAID for...and again, what worked fine until I needed to reinstall it - run without upgrading to a new version with a monthly fee.

Well, Adobe - you lost a customer (and all my family members, who agree...plus every other person I discuss it with) permanently.  I/we won't be forced into a subscription by a company that only "rents" software under a single flat fee until they "feel" like  yanking it away from a decades-long company supporter.

I have my original receipt; my serial number; my DVD-roms. and Adobe has decided they are coasters - or toilet paper.

Guess which use I choose!

[JimSliff]

---

@MichelBParis wrote:

Hello MichaelBParis

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I absolutely don't want to create discussions in any case but I think I have to add only few words in order to avoid misunderstandings.

As mentioned before, Apple has introduced the 64 bits technology in their machines starting from 2007. Adobe has produced a new version of Elements every year. Nevertheless the Elements version 15, which has been packed in 2016 and sold in 2017, only supports 32 bits machines. This means that Adobe had the possibility to support the 64 bits at least during 9 long years - but they have decided not to do it. As the Elements serie is mainly addressed private, home users, like myself, these users don't buy new versions every year - sorry to contraddict you - but only when strictly necessary, for example when the product has absolutely amazing, necessary new features worth of buying again.

By @Giuggio

In similar discussions, the focus is clearly on the 64-bits evolution. Contrary to the common belief, that's not the only factor is making old applications no longer valid. There were other changes with the same result at the same time. If you read other technical discussions about the issue, you'll see that even if the most part of PSE15 was already working in 64-bits, some peripheral parts, like installers were not. Some users have been using PSE15 later until they had to reinstal it. Mac users of PSE15 were warned  in advance that they should keep their older OS version: PSE15 works as before for them. It's an oversimplification to reduce the issue with the 64-bits change. To support a new important version of OS, the software industry must work on its real, definitive specifications, not technical trends. Don't believe they were available even one year before the OS version release. That requires a lot of work and very often after the first compatible release,  a couple of years is required before full compatibility is achieved.

To keep it simple, Adobe or any software provider will not upgrade each older versions of the last 5 years, they will create a new version and keep their efforts on that latest version.

So, either you have a subscription to a service offering always the latest updated version (ideal for pros) or you manage your softwares according to your budget and the reality of the changes in software/hardware. Just a personal feeling: I am now seeing that my 4 years old computer is already obsolete. My other older computers can still run with difficulty. I am upgrading PSE each year only to be able to help in this forum. Otherwise, upgrading Elements every 3 to 5 years seems very reasonable. That makes it much more affordable than a subscription. Of course, I understand the frustration of low budget Mac users who needed to change more frequently the last years. I hope for them that next years will be easier.

For people with

---

I swear Adobe is using employees to make this stuff up.  I ran into the problem months ago but just raid the post above - and it is SO absurd it derves a response.

I received NO warning.  Not from Adobe nor from Apple.  The fact that PSE15 worked with 64-bit OSX for some time, but simply refused to update the *installer* - so any user who had to reinstall after a repair, which is not uncommon - absolutely proves to me that it's Adobe that is trying to force PSE 15 users to buy their new version.

This really hits older and disabled users (I'm both) on a fixed income away from Adobe permanently.  If we can't afford their new INSTALLERwe can't use the product we paid for.  A hundred bucks to replace a WORKING program is something I just can't fit in my budget.

NO other common software company has done this.  I have no issues reinstalling anything but Adobe Photoshop and Premier Elements.

I throw this in Adobe's lap because it RAN fine under Big Sur, so they must have upgraded it to a 64 bit application.  It didn't suddenly "stop working".  Adobe is just screwing those of us who need to reinstall it.

And FWIW my issue was a MacBook Pro that had an over-voltage problem (related to the battery) that cooked my backup drive and the internal SSD.  Apple fixed the machine - 2 years past warranty expiration - for FREE and recovered everything on the internal drive (with several virtual cloud drives). There were only a couple of minor pieces of software I needed to reinstall - and Adobe's products.  And they were ON THE NEW SSD but would not run, because ONLY Adobe treated the repair as a new computer.  Adobe support refused to do anything - they wouldn't even offer a discount on the new version. They just kicked me to the curb.

Bye bye Adobe Photoshop Elements - hello Gimp.  And I've used several other video editing programs, so They can stuff that one as well.

The installation issues did not surprise or upset me - it was support''s attitude.  No one would even offer the lower-priced Teacher/Student edition to a disabled senior.  It was just rude and showed a total lack of courtesy.

I was an early PC clone builder, and on Windows machines and then Macs I used no photo editing software...and later, video editing software...except Adobe products - purchased, not hacked versions.  I even have been using their iPad products.  And I recently installed PSE 15 on an older iMac I hadn't used for photo work.  But after reading te post above I'm removing the working version.  I'll just use one OSX program and a couple IOS programs from other companies.

Adobe doesn't want me.  Fine.  I don't NEED them - so as far as I'm concerned they no longer exist.  Anything that needs flash will also be deleted.

[MichelBParis]

@JimSliff 

I just re-read my previous answer and I am sorry to say that I won't change a single word from it.

That also means that I was and still am truly sad from the way Apple deals with its customers.

I am not a Mac user, and seeing how Apple systematically makes its new OS versions incompatible with the just previous one, destroying backward compatibility, is a major reason for avoiding them.

No, Apple did not write specifically to you to say that you'd have to buy a new version of Photoshop Elements if you changed your OS version (and a lot of non Adobe softwares). But that was made public 3 years beforehand, so that even most Windows users were aware of what was coming, and you can verify that in all kind of photo editing forums,

Your technical past with computers shows that you perfectly understand that an application program is built on basic code 'bricks' from the OS. If you remove or change those 'bricks', new programs won't work. You don't believe me (or don't trust me) when I say that there were other factors than the lack of a 64 bits installer program. So, I'll ask another question: do Adobe need to supply an installer of all the 15 previous of Elements before the dreaded Mac OS change?

[sandy639]

I am using photoshop elements 15 on a system upgraded to Big Sur without problem.  (Big Sur requires 64 bit) But when I went to install PS elements 15 on a new computer with Monterey it said the installer needs to be updated.  I assume this means the application is 64 bit but the installer in 32 bit.  In other words it looks like it can't be resinstalled or moved to a new computer.  

Does anyone know of a work around?

[sandy639]

It has been 6 months since my original post. Obviously there is no work around.  It is a black mark on Adobe to not update the installer to 64bit when the main program is 64bit.  The installer is a relatively small bit of code compared to the main program.  If they did this on purpose it rather cruel, your computer breaks and now you can't reload your software.  I agree with Jimsliff this is an Adobe problem not an Apple problem.  Not a way to win over or keep customers.  

[Simsorder]

Is there any new info on an update to Elements 15 installer.  My harddrive crashed and need a new one installed.  Now I'm running on Monteray and installer will not work as mentioned in this thread.  Trying to decided if I continue to wait for an update or find something new.