Backup

[Jan9368]

I was working with the online help but yesterday and cannot get anyone to finish my issue today.

I just did a back up to my private cloud (microsoft 365). I see my pictures and they look like they are all there. There are also just a many "ghost" pictures with the same number but have "jason" after the number. I also have xmp files that look like a bullseye with a red circle around it.

The person I chatted with said that I could put all them in a folder (name it elements backup and date) so I have a neater cloud and can find my stuff easily.

My question is: When I do an incremental backup should I open up this file before I do the incremental back up?

Next question is: When I am finished with the incremental back up how will that look. Will it just have the just the new pictures or ALL the pictures again (old and new). If it just has the new pictures I would need to also open this file when I want to do the next back up right?

[Greg_S.]

The .json files contain face recognition information.  The .xmp files are "sidecar" files that contain the edit information for files you have edited.

When you do any backup, you should create a new folder for the backup.

So, no, you should not use your original backup folder for the incremental backup.  If you try to do so, you will get a message that you will overwrite your original backup files.

When you do an incremental backup, it will contain only the files that are not contained in the earlier backup.  The same thing happens with each incremental backup.  As part of the incremental backup, you will be asked where the earlier backup folder is located. So, I would recommend putting a date on the folder name to help you keep track. 

You also need to make sure not to delete any of the incremental backup folders as that will destroy the integrity of the backup.

For more detailed instructions about the Backup and Restore process, look at this article.

[MichelBParis]

My advice is: Don't use incremental backups, especially when storing the catalog folders in the Cloud. 

How big is your photo library in items number and size in GB (the media files folders) and the catalog folder (from the menu help >> System Information)?

To add to what Greg correctly states,

Next question is: When I am finished with the incremental back up how will that look. 

You'll have the original full backup folder, and a new backup folder for each incremental backup. Each incremental backup contains copies of only new or changed  media files, plus all the contents of the catalog itself (the database).

Remember that the backup folder can ONLY be used for a restore, it's not a working copy of your library or catalog. With incremental backups, you have to first run the restore from the full backup, then restore each other incremental one in the order asked by the program.

[Jan9368]

Michael,
Thank you for replying to my question. Hope you are well. Figure this is a good time to work on elements while home bound.

Are you suggesting that I not do incremental back ups? only back ups? Lets say I do a back up March 2020 and then in say 9 months I feel that I should backup again due to a trip I took. Are you suggesting doing another Full back up and then deleting the first back up in March 2020?
If not what are you suggesting to back up additional new photos?

I copied the information from elements for your review

Current Catalog:
Catalog Name: My Catalog 1
Catalog Location: C:\Users\janba\Pictures\Restored Catalog\My Catalog 1\
Catalog Size: 119.4MB
Catalog Cache Size: 1.8GB

System:
Operating System Name: Windows 10
Operating System Version: 10.0
System Architecture: Intel CPU Family:6 Model:14 Stepping:10 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2
Built-in Memory: 15.8GB
Free Memory: 8.3GB


I have a one TB hard drive

I have office 365 with one user and have 1TB of cloud storage

I have a TB external hard drive that I used to use for my elements photo storage as I did not have enough storage on my last computer. I worked directly from that to edit and organize and apply tags.

Do you think I should not store my photos on the cloud?

Should I do another back up on the external hard drive? It has an old version of my catalog about from about 2 years ago. How would one do that? Would I delete the old catalog and do a back up?

Once I do a back up can I place all the pictures files, Jason files and .xmp files in a folder labeled with "elements backup and date" either on the cloud or on the external hard drive. To me the back up storage would look more organized.

Jan

[Jan9368]

This is a repost for clarification on Michael B Paris answer to my question as I haven't gotten an answer

Are you suggesting that I not do incremental back ups? only back ups? Lets say I do a back up March 2020 and then in say 9 months I feel that I should backup again due to a trip I took. Are you suggesting doing another Full back up and then deleting the first back up in March 2020?
If not what are you suggesting to back up additional new photos?

I copied the information from elements for your review

Current Catalog:
Catalog Name: My Catalog 1
Catalog Location: C:\Users\janba\Pictures\Restored Catalog\My Catalog 1\
Catalog Size: 119.4MB
Catalog Cache Size: 1.8GB

System:
Operating System Name: Windows 10
Operating System Version: 10.0
System Architecture: Intel CPU Family:6 Model:14 Stepping:10 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2
Built-in Memory: 15.8GB
Free Memory: 8.3GB


I have a one TB hard drive

I have office 365 with one user and have 1TB of cloud storage

I have a TB external hard drive that I used to use for my elements photo storage as I did not have enough storage on my last computer. I worked directly from that to edit and organize and apply tags.

Do you think I should not store my photos on the cloud?

Should I do another back up on the external hard drive? It has an old version of my catalog about from about 2 years ago. How would one do that? Would I delete the old catalog and do a back up?

Once I do a back up can I place all the pictures files, Jason files and .xmp files in a folder labeled with "elements backup and date" either on the cloud or on the external hard drive. To me the back up storage would look more organized.

[MichelBParis]

Yes, I am suggesting to forget about the incremental backup from the organizer.

Here is what I would do in your situation:

- I would store the backup folder on an external drive.

- I would keep the previous full backup on an external drive, preferably another one. What happens with your incremental or multiple backup folders if the external drive is missing or corrupt? 

- You can look at the contents of the backup folders, but don't try to 'reorganize' them! After a backup session, wait a minute after the end message to be sure it's complete. There should be a 'catalog.buc' and a 'backup.tly' file in the folder.

- Older backup folders can be deleted completely from the Explorer to free up space.

I have a TB external hard drive that I used to use for my elements photo storage as I did not have enough storage on my last computer. I worked directly from that to edit and organize and apply tags.

Very good, that's what I do myself.

Do you think I should not store my photos on the cloud?

I do not store my main photo library on the Cloud, but I store smaller selections of recent or family files via Onedrive or Dropbox: they are in the dedicated folders synced by Microsoft or Dropbox. They can be shared easily and viewed with other computers or devices, but there is no practical ways to sync catalogs. I only have to rely on the hierarchical subfolders structure for organization.

Ideally, if your library is not too big and you have a very good Internet connection, you could consider using an external backup system instead of, or together with the Organizer backup. The advantage of the Organizer backup is that it's the only solution which can restore both the media files structure with the catalog folders while keeping the links in the catalog; that's absolutely necessary when you move to a new computer or drive or if your original drive or computer is no longer available.

Provided you do full backups at regular intervals, you can use alternative backup systems. For instance, I use the Microsoft Synctoy tool to sync my main folders from their original location on the external drive to a similar location on a second external drive. Only a couple of minutes after each editing session. Much faster and safer than incremental backups.

[Jan9368]

My questions are in italics

Yes, I am suggesting to forget about the incremental backup from the organizer.

Here is what I would do in your situation:

- I would store the backup folder on an external drive.

I have completed this and have a previous and new back up

- I would keep the previous full backup on an external drive, preferably another one. What happens with your incremental or multiple backup folders if the external drive is missing or corrupt?

- You can look at the contents of the backup folders, but don't try to 'reorganize' them! After a backup session, wait a minute after the end message to be sure it's complete. There should be a 'catalog.buc' and a 'backup.tly' file in the folder.

- Older backup folders can be deleted completely from the Explorer to free up space.

I have a TB external hard drive that I used to use for my elements photo storage as I did not have enough storage on my last computer. I worked directly from that to edit and organize and apply tags.

Very good, that's what I do myself.

Do you think I should not store my photos on the cloud?
I do not store my main photo library on the Cloud, but I store smaller selections of recent or family files via Onedrive or Dropbox: they are in the dedicated folders synced by Microsoft or Dropbox. They can be shared easily and viewed with other computers or devices, but there is no practical ways to sync catalogs. I only have to rely on the hierarchical subfolders structure for organization.

Do you think that I could leave all my backed up pictures on the cloud and organize the pictures in folders by years/ month/activity, or some other way? This way I can access them on my phone and also they would be in a good format for me to give pictures to my kids so they can enjoy them after I am gone. I could then just drag and drop them in another folder on my external device as a "folder type back up"

Ideally, if your library is not too big and you have a very good Internet connection, you could consider using an external backup (is this the Synctoy back up you mention below) system instead of, or together with the Organizer backup. The advantage of the Organizer backup is that it's the only solution which can restore both the media files structure with the catalog folders while keeping the links in the catalog; that's absolutely necessary when you move to a new computer or drive or if your original drive or computer is no longer available.

Provided you do full backups at regular intervals, you can use alternative backup systems. For instance, I use the Microsoft Synctoy tool to sync my main folders from their original location on the external drive to a similar location on a second external drive. Only a couple of minutes after each editing session. Much faster and safer than incremental backups.

This is interesting concept can you explain further or give me a link. How do you bring all the edits back into elements so that the editing you've done gets transferred? How do you make sure the original location is similar on the second drive? Do you collect a bunch of folders that you have done editing work on and then submit them to elements at some point?

This has been VERY helpful and I am finally understanding some important concepts.

Thanks for your time

[MichelBParis]

This is interesting concept can you explain further or give me a link.

Here is the link, but Microsoft Synctoy is a legacy application which does not install in recent Win 10 versions without fiddling. I am pretty sure there are other syncing solutions available.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=15155

The idea is to 'sync' folder trees between two locations, typically your master folder storing your media and another folder elsewhere, generally on another external drive. Even if you have 100 000 items like me, the softwares checks which files have been modified, added or deleted and syncs them with your preferred options. Just a few minutes instead of several hours with the PSE backup. You can sync backwards to restore.

[Jan9368]

Once you put your edited pictures you've worked on in a folder do these synch programs synch your edits  into elements?

Or just any further edits you've made?

If these synch programs you mention do not synch your edits into elements how is that done as at some point you will want to get the edits into elements.

Also do you see any issues using my cloud to organize my pictures in folders by year? Would be another backup and  a way I can share pictures with the my kids.

[Greg_S.]

FWIW, I use a utility called Folder Match to synchronize my backup folders.  I copy all of my media to a number of different hard drives, internal and external, as my backups.  I separately copy my catalog folders.  I find this simpler and faster than using the Organizer's backup and restore.  Each backup can be synchronized by copying "orphan" files which are those created since the last synchronization, and/or can replace an older unedited file with an edited or more recent file.

[MichelBParis]

Once you put your edited pictures you've worked on in a folder do these synch programs synch your edits  into elements?

Or just any further edits you've made?

If these synch programs you mention do not synch your edits into elements how is that done as at some point you will want to get the edits into elements.

Such syncing softwares just ensures that the folders copy are exactly the same as the original;  new and modified files are updated, deleted file are also deleted depending on your choice. This has nothing to do with your edits which are stored in the catalog. You can also use the 'sync' feature for the catalog folder, but it's not faster than just copying the catalog folder elsewhere.

A catalog folder can be stored in the default (hidden) location or where you want. Its contents don't change.

But if your original drive is no longer available, the catalog still points to that precise drive, and you can't easily change the catalog to point to the 'synced' new drive. That would need 'reconnecting' everything, which is a real chore with a big library. That's the reason why the organizer backup is the solution when you want to move to another drive or computer.

The "sync" solutions do work perfectly to restore (copy back) to the original drive. It's very usefel even if the original drive is not available, since you don't lose any file of your photo library. Let's say you do regular organizer backups every month and you sync after each editing session. What's the risk? The organizer backup lets you restore the media files and the catalog in the state they were on your last backup. Using the last 'sync' folders will update your work (the media files) since the backup. New and edited files will be updated, deleted files will be deleted if you you have set your preferences for that, and your catalog will need manual updating, that is importing new files in the catalog and searching for missing files to delete them from catalog. Much easier and faster than trying to reconnect all files in your library.

Also do you see any issues using my cloud to organize my pictures in folders by year? Would be another backup and  a way I can share pictures with the my kids.

Organizing by year is an excellent way to store your images, that's what I am doing too.