Elements 20 Catalogue help please

[Nick_Baelz]

I have been running Elements 14 on my Windows 7 laptop. The Catalogue is contained on an external hard drive rather than the computer and I back it up onto a second hard drive.

I have just loaded Elements 20 onto my newWindow 10 laptop and wish to access the catalogue.

Can I just access the catalogue from the first external hard drive or must I do a restore from the second hard drive.

I tried opening Catalogue manager and selected Custom Lication and pointed it to the folder on my external drive that contains the catalogue but the open button remains greyed out.

I don't want the photo files on my new c drive .

can anyone help and tell me what I need to do?
Thanks

[Guest]

Moving to the Photoshop Elements forum from Community Help

[MichelBParis · Accepted solution]

If your catalog folder is on the external drive, you have to start by converting it to the PSE2020 format from the PSE2020 catalog manager (convert button). From the converted catalog, double click on the catalog.pse18db file. That will open the organizer with the new converted catalog.

I forgot to mention that the external drive should have the same drive letter as before.

[Nick_Baelz]

Hi

Many thanks it's worked 

[josephunit2n]

Michel B, will you provide your usual, excellent help, with a related problem?  Late last night, I upgraded Elements/Premiere 21 to Elements/Premiere Elements 23.  I store catalogues in similar method to the person in this dialogue (Nick Baelz).  Upon opening E23 organizer, my catalogues did not appear, and I used the catalogue manager search to find them, used "convert" on each one (did not realize the step you offered to Nick).  I had odd results.  I can't recall all iterations of this process, however, some catalogues appeared in "all users", some in "custom location".  THEN, I discovered some in "all users" were on my comupter internal "C" drive, a solid state drive where I DO NOT want them.  I began going to the C storage location and deleting catalogues, then using the process I described to bring them again into Catalogue Manager.  Results were constantly variable, then I feared I had inadvetantly deleted 2 catalogues entirely, from the storage drive (P).  In the end, I went to 2 hours sleep with not all catalogues accessible. My plan (I wanted first your insights) was to delete all catalogues from the catalogue manager, then restore all catalogues from backup catalogue storage drive (O), target them all to a new folder on the normal catalogue drive (P), and if all was successful, delete all the original catalogue storage from that drive (redundant, unnecessary, and I never want to risk future corruption, with the same photo files in duplicate locations on the same drive, active drive in Elements).  NOW, tonight, I opened the computer and Elements 23, and now ALL catalogues appear in the catalogue manager;  ALL  are in the "custom location", they open properly, and all files are drawn correctly from the (P) drive, not from computer internal C drive.  A few of these same catalogues appear in the "all users" section, also open correctly, in correct P storage.  It seems, all is well!!  Only, the listed catalogues seem to change location in "catlogue manager".  After I viewed someo of the catalogues, in "all users", when I went back to "custom location", now many did not appear;  after I opened one there, in "custom location" then the others did reappear.  This jumpy, erratic behavior, confuses and worries me, regarding long term stability of the catologue storage/management.  Have you any explanation?  Any advice?  Should I nevertheless implement the other plan, of restoring all catalogues, from backup drive "O". to target in active catalogue drive "P"?  Is this necessary/adviseable, and would it work, would it resolve these issues of "erractic" behavior?  Or, is everything now ok, as is?  HELP !!!!!

[MichelBParis]

@josephunit2n 

What is not clear in your case is that your catalog folders seem to appear randomly either in 'custom location' or on 'catalogs accessible to all users'.

To better understand what is going on, we'll start with the 'normal' behaviour of the organizer, which is to use a default location for the catalog folder. From the beginning, that 'default' folder location has been chosen to be 'hidden' in Windows so that beginners don't have to bother with how to chose it and so that the 'catalog manager' knows where to find it. You can't use the organizer without having a catalog folder open.

You can also choose to create, copy or move a catalog folder elsewhere elsewhere, including in an external drive if you want. The contents of the moved/copied folder are not changed. Both catalogs work exactly the same.

So, you must know where an open catalog is situated:  menu Help > System info of the organizer. Make sure that folder is not 'hidden' in the Windows explorer, then you can look at the contents of the folder. This will show the dates, the catalog.pseXX.db database type disclosing the XX PSE version.

You'll be able to compare two catalogs in default and custom locations. You can use either of them if they are exact copies, and chose to delete one or the other.

Now, about 'custom' locations:

Either you have decided to create one voluntarily by copying/moving the original catalog folder where you want or that is the result of migrating a catalog + library to a new computer or drive via backup and restore. That's my preferred option to keep both the catalog and the media library to an external drive to be able to use them alternatively with two different computers.

The advantage of the default location for the catalog manager is that it can find all the catalogs stored there, either older versions or user specific versions. Recent custom locations may also be remembered by  the catalog manager, but you may have to guide it manually to the actual location if it does not find all custom catalogs. For instance if you have just moved a catalog from the explorer.

Does this help to understand better what happened in your case?

[josephunit2n]

In all, I have about 8 catalogs.  I looked in System Info, as  you suggested, 8 times, each with one catalog open in the organizer (MANAGER:   “custom location).  Good news, ALL were in the external “P” drive, intended for active Elements catalogue management.  Typically, with a given catalog open, System Info would list that catalog and others (not all) in “P” drive.  That list in System Info would vary a bit, depending upon which catalog was open in the organizer.  I wrote down all these instances, see no need to list all this, here.

NEXT, I went into the “P” drive to look at the catalogues and structure.   Again, I wrote this all down if needed.  In general:

• ALL catalogs were listed
• Within each catalog, several variations, instances of the following:  some might be complete, system files and photo files;  within some catalogues, in addition to the usual files, were found the same catalogues also listed outside this catalog file, some system info. only, some photo files only, some complete (system + photos).
• Since at some time in the past, I change the photo filing method, some catalogs have photos in date folders, some had photo files + xmp simply listed.

My thought was to clean up this complex, confusing structure, by “restoring” all, from saved backups, however, I now imagine the backups retain the same structure, therefore, no simplification.

In all this, I looked only at catalogues in Manager’s “custom location”.  I did not look at “available to all users”, and it seems at this point I should ignore that section, never access it.

What do you advise?  Is all in good order, just continue onward?  Should anything be changed, modified?

[MichelBParis]

NEXT, I went into the “P” drive to look at the catalogues and structure.   Again, I wrote this all down if needed.  In general:

• ALL catalogs were listed
• Within each catalog, several variations, instances of the following:  some might be complete, system files and photo files;  within some catalogues, in addition to the usual files, were found the same catalogues also listed outside this catalog file, some system info. only, some photo files only, some complete (system + photos).
• Since at some time in the past, I change the photo filing method, some catalogs have photos in date folders, some had photo files + xmp simply listed.

By @josephunit2n

What strikes me most in your description is that catalog folders should never contain any photo (apart from subfolders storing projects). The photos should be in their own folder structure, different and independent from catalog folders. The catalog folders should have mainly the same components especially the catalog.pseXXdb database and the thumbnail cache (thumb.5.cache) and a lot of tiny xml files if you use face recognition, plus a number of accessory subfolders and files.

It's necessary to understand which wrong workflow has 'mixed' the catalogs and media folders.

- Did you start using PSE on your current computer with an SSD?  Or did you install the SSD after using a conventional one?

- You made a number of backups:  was it to migrate to the 'P' external drive via backup and restore? Did you perform several restores to the 'P' drive? It's possible that the target folder on 'P' was wrongly chosen, which would explain the intrication between catalog folders and media folder tree?

The huge problem with catalog folders including media files is that it will create a number of duplicates of your media files.

How big is your library?

[josephunit2n]

I periodically take complete (not incremental) backups of each catalog (well, active catalogs;  older ones are static, no changes) to an external drive "O", NOT the external drive ("P") active with Elements.  I can't speak to the distant past, however, with the purchase of current computer (custom built with SSD), I made one complete "restore to target" of all catalogs, to a new, clean external hard drive "P" (RAID 1, dual redundant/mirrored drives for data security).  The storage structure I see is so complex, multi layered, difficult to explain, this is one instance I wish actual live support were available, to access the computer/drive and view this.  That said, all seems to be working properly, now.  I only live with a fear, if this ever were to break down, become corrupted, the restoration process would be hellish.  Library size:  4 largest catalogs of perhaps 4,000/5,000 raw file images, each.  Also, I'm not highly technical and we may have an issue with semantics.  When I say "catalog", I mean everything, data files, structure, and photo files/.xmp files.  When you say "catalog", I now see you intend only the structure, not the photo files.  Nevertheless, this structure is as it exists, regardless of verbal description.

[Greg_S.]

@josephunit2n, you have received excellent advice from Michel.  To give you some other possible suggestions moving forward, it would also be helpful to know why you have 8 different catalogs.  Is there any overlap between them?  And do you have a specific reason for separating them? 

[josephunit2n]

I believe you and I have discussed this, previously!  In the past, some "expert" (Scott Kelby? someone similar?) advised to limit catalog size to around 5,000 images, to help avoid data corruption.  I know you said this is not necessary.  I feel at least this is harmless, and at best, might be beneficial.  At least once, I created new catalogs for some other reason (can't recall, clearly), perhaps new cameras adding photo files with new number sequences that seemed to duplicate the numbering of older photo files.  To further explain the number of catalogs, I will now also state:  in all this, there are 2 photographers/cameras, my wife and myself.  She does not operate Elements, only I do.