Highlighted

Location of Catalog structure backup - PSE 2021

Explorer ,
Nov 15, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

1. Where does PSE 2021 store the catalog file that is automatically generated upon closing organizer?

2. Is there a user choice location for this file.

3. Is this same file that is saved when the user backs up the catalog structure and selects his own location through file backup?

TOPICS
Organizer

Views

86

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more

Location of Catalog structure backup - PSE 2021

Explorer ,
Nov 15, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

1. Where does PSE 2021 store the catalog file that is automatically generated upon closing organizer?

2. Is there a user choice location for this file.

3. Is this same file that is saved when the user backs up the catalog structure and selects his own location through file backup?

TOPICS
Organizer

Views

87

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Nov 15, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 15, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

1 - C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs\_Autobackup_\

2 - No, but you can do the same by copying the current catalog folder minus the bulky Thumbnail.5.cache where you want

3 - have a look at the contents of one of those backup folders. As stated above, it's a copy of the catalog folder, not of a part of a regular backup folder with its renamed files and the tly management file.

 

Don't ask me where the backup is saved in the Cloud if you choose that option which is made available by your free automatic sbscription to the Creative Cloud (2 GB only).

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 15, 2020 0
Explorer ,
Nov 15, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

1. OK

2. Understand

3.  Confused

My real concern is that I am searching for the best way to backup the pictures and also backup the catalog elements like tags, captions, etc.  The normal PSE backup backs up the pictures with the catalog structure.  Thus, the pictures are redundantly backed up once with my normal backup programs, and then again with PSE  backup.  The Catalog Structure Backup feature enables this redundancy to be eliminated.

 

The"auto" catalog structure backup sounds great, but if the files are stored in a folder not usually backed by normal backup program like Seagate Tool Kit or Carbonite, then what good is it?

Thanks......Ron

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 15, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 15, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a redundant backup.  😉  Different backup programs have different uses and if they are stored on different storage devices, there is no redundancy.


The "Auto" backup of the catalog is not intended to be a backup for restoration by a user.  It is intended as a recovery from a corrupt catalog.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 15, 2020 0
Explorer ,
Nov 15, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks for clarifying.

 

However, it doesn't seem to make much sense to have 2 different backup programs.  But that is Adobe's business.

 

As a user, I will use the new Catalog Structure Backup and keep my backup file on an external drive so it is not lost when my PC crashes and I have to reinstall windows and PSE.  At least that saves backing up the pictures twice.

Ron

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 15, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 16, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

You are feeling safe with your own backup scheme?

Here is what we are seeing here on this and other forums: too many users think that they are smarter than the Organizer progrmmers and do exactly what you are going to do. They keep a backup of their images files on a separate external drive. The smarter ones also save a copy of their catalog folder in the same location. Altenatively, they may use a Cloud backup solution. Or they may use both.

And what do we see in the discussion? 

They can't restore as they expected if the computer (or its main drive) is stolen, broken,  lost in floods, fire or similar, especially if the external backup drive is stored beside the computer.

At best, they can restore their media files.

They also can restore the catalog folder.

But they are never able to make the catalog work with the newly restored media files. All files in the catalog will be disconnected and they won't be able to reconnect much from a big library.

Also, they won't be able to move their media files and catalog when upgrading their hardware. Same disconnection problem. The real issue with Elements Organizer, which does not exist for Lightroom, is that the reconnection process never works well in that situation, even if it can be smart to reconnect smaller moved, renamed or deleted batches. That's why for such moves, you have to use the organizer backup and restore process, which keeps the connection with the new chosen drive/computer.

 

The new feature is simply a copy of the catalog folder minus the thumbnail cache to save disk space. The cache will be rebuilt automaticaly. What is  extremely useful and critical for your safety is that the process can be automatic. How many users did regularly copy their catalog folders before? That has always been possible.

 

I have difficulties to understand why so many users think they are safe without having tested their backup scheme like this. To simulate the loss of your computer, try to restore on an external drive as a test. Can you reconnect the files in the restored catalog?

 

The 'redundancy' and the lack of disk space may not be the real motive of wanting to backup only the catalog. It's that a full backup is really very slow. Saving time is the primary goal. The risk is to believe that the media files will also be backed up. You get very clear warnings about that, though.

 

Managing files with a catalog (organizer or Lightroom) means backing up both the files trees and the catalog and keeping the links in the catalog updated after restore. It's not two separate backups, it's a bundle. The organizer offers its full backup solution and Lightroom offers  a relinking of the drive.

 

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 16, 2020 2
Explorer ,
Nov 16, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 16, 2020 0
Explorer ,
Nov 17, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Michel, I find your Forum input both enlightening and confusing. I have a related string [Problem opening Catalog in PSE V17 (2019) Organizer] on this forum and find your last comments to be pertinent to my understanding of my problem. I just purchased PSE 2021 and have used it just a little. Still trying to recover something from my crashed computer with PSE 2019. 

 

You mention here that Catalog structure can be recovered (which would be a big plus over what I have now - nothing) but I have not been able to do that even though I have a complete C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs. How do I do this? 

 

I didn't make a ".tly" file in the 2019 version thinking I was fully covered by the above. It appears that the ".tly" has more than just the catalog structure and thumbnails as I assumed but also the full images that make up the catalog. Is that correct and if so, no wonder my local tech is having trouble trying to coax the ".tly" file from my old hard drive? 

 

Other than your comments above, where is one supposed to go to find guidance on the apparent multiple backup options in PSE 2021? I'm used to having a 'book/e-book' that I can refer to for new software. I've already looked and that doesn't seem to be available from Adobe. I've always found the on-line help from Adobe (outside of forums) to be clumsy to use at best. 

 

My apologies for breaking into this string to solve my own problem but is was the only way I could see to follow this train of thought. 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 17, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 17, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

@henryf 

You mention here that Catalog structure can be recovered (which would be a big plus over what I have now - nothing) but I have not been able to do that even though I have a complete C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs. How do I do this?

The words 'catalog structure' just appeared in PSE 2021. In the previous versions, Adobe used the single word 'catalog' for either what users of assets management call simply 'catalog', or for the combo catalog + media files folders. For instance, the crucial backup procedures to backup media files and catalog were only called 'catalog backups'. That was totally contrary to Lightroom, where catalog backup does NOT backup the media files. That was left to the responsability of the user to use an adequate software for this purpose.

 

It seem that 'catalog structure' has been chosen to make clear that the 'catalog' does not contain picture files. In practice and for most new organizer users that is more easily understood. To be precise, it's still a bit ambiguous. The catalogue structure here covers not only the catalog folder' structure in various components, but also its information contents;  not only the hierarchical tags structure, but the tags and links to the real media.

 

So, to make it simpler, a catalog is a folder. You have found its default path.

All users should read the help file:

https://helpx.adobe.com/fr/elements-organizer/user-guide.html/fr/elements-organizer/using/creating-e...

Also, all users should have a look at what is in this folder and know to find its location via the menu File >> System Info.

I also think that all users should know that the catalog folder (which has the same name as the catalog) can be moved or copied elsewhere while keeping everything intact, including all the links to the physical location of the various media files.

Since catalogs may not be necessarily in the default (hidden) location in C ProgramData, users may have to search for those folders in their computers from the explorer or finder. To do that, you have to search for the main component, the database called 'catalog.pseXXdb'. XX stands for the PSE version number, 19 for PSE 2021 for instance.

In this search, you can find the catalogs of different versions based on the XX part of the name.

Such a search may be necessary to scan the disk of an old computer to recover the catalog after a crash if you don't have a valid organizer backup.

 

 

 

 

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 17, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 17, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

@henryf, you are correct that a full catalog backup includes all of the catalog information as well as a copy of all media files (not just thumbnail). But, starting with Elements 2021, you can now backup just the catalog files.

 

I agree with you about the clumsiness of the Help files.  The best place to look for help is in the Search bar on the Welcome Screen.  By typing in Backup and restore you will get a link to this article. 

 

Added:  Sorry, I cross-posted with Michel.  For those who may be interested, here is Michel's linked article in English.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 17, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 17, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

@Reg1987 

I am coming back for your 3rd question.

What is different in the way (the format) the 'catalog structure' is saved:

- in the traditional full or incremental backups

- in the way advanced users made copies of the catalog folder

- or in the new automatic 'catalog structure backups'?

 

The traditional backup stores renamed copies of all media files in the 'backup folder'. It's similar for the components in the catalog folder. All files which don't start with 'B0' are not media renamed copies, they are catalog components copies. Two items are necessary. One is the 'catalog.buc' which is a simple copy of the 'catalog.pseXXdb'. The other is the 'backup.tly' file which contains everything to rename back everything to the original name and to restore it to the new location. It's created automatically at the end of the backup process. Just check if it is written to be sure the backup is complete and valid.

- Backing up the catalog folder is just doing a manual copy from the explorer. Good practice, fast and simple. Does not replace the full backup of the media files, but works if what you want is only to save the structure or if your other backup system is able to restore the media on the original drive.

- The new 'automatic' catalog structure backup does just the above for you. Small difference, to save space, the thumbnail cache (thumb.5.cache in the catalog folder) is skipped because it's too big and it will be re-created automatically. Other difference: you can save on your computer or in the "Cloud".

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Nov 17, 2020 0