PSE 15 Difficulty with Save in Version Set with Original

[tennesseerd]

I have PSE 15. I upgraded from 12. I upgraded to 2018 last night to see if it would correct the problem, but it didn't. I have Windows 10 64 bit. After editing my photos, I go to 'save as' and the 'save in version set with original' is grayed out. I used to be able to save this way. In the past, it would save as edited-1.jpg. I no longer have this option. After saving as a jpeg, I look in the organizer and there is no file saved as a jpeg. There is only an NEF file. If I look in my file explorer, I can see the jpeg save. However, it's not saved where I had indicated for it to be saved in my preferences. If I decide to open it back in the organizer, it opens the NEF file and appears as though it has never been edited. I have spent many hours trying to correct this problem, but haven't been able to figure it out. Thanks in advance!

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

I'm assuming that you start with an NEF file and, after editing you want to save as a JPG in a version set.

Do you import the NEF into the organizer, select the image and then go to Edit?

The NEF should first open in Camera Raw and after making any adjustments there, you select Open Image

Having made any adjustments, you select Save As but do not get the option to save it in a version set.

Is that your workflow?

The only time that the version set option is greyed out for me is when I load an image which is not in my catalog. In that case,, there is nothing to make a version set with.

There may be a problem with your preferences. You could try resetting them by going to Edit -> Preferences -> General and clcking on reset preferences at next load. You then need to clocse and reopen the editor.

When you return after your 3 days, do you start off in the organizer again?

Brian

[tennesseerd]

Hi Brian,

Yes, it is my workflow. I did reset my preferences, but it didn't correct the problem. Any other ideas?  Thanks!

Teran

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

I'm beginning to think that there maybe a problem in your catalog.

In organizer, have you tried repairing your catalog?

[File -> Manage catalogs -- select your catalog and click on Repair]

In organizer have you checked for broken links?

[File -> Reconnect -> All missing files]

In editor, when you Save As, do you change the location or name?

One other thing you could try is to create a new test catalog.

[File -> Manage catalogs - click on New and give it a name - skip the import]

Import a small sample of images and try editing one of them to see if version sets are active.

Brian

[tennesseerd]

HI Brian,

I tried all the steps you suggested. It wasn't until I created a test catalog that it worked!  So what do I do now?  Thank you so much!

Teran

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi Teran,

OK, so it looks like the problem lies in your original catalog.

If you haven't already done so, you can switch back to you main catalog by going to File -> Manage catalogs, select you main catalog and clicking on Open.

Did this problem start when you upgraded to PSE 15 or did it start sometime since you upgraded?

When you tried the Repair option, did it find any errors or did it report no errors found? In the case of no errors found, try the Repair anyway option.

Brian

[tennesseerd]

Hi Brian,

It started in PSE 15. I did the repair option yesterday, but nothing happened. It said there were no errors, but I went ahead and did the repair anyway.  Thanks,

Teran

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

When you switched from PSE 12 to PSE 15, did you hit the problem straight away or did start off working correctly.

If it was the switch that caused it, then it would suggest that the catalog conversion failed in some way. Do you recall any problems during the conversion?

Brian

[tennesseerd]

Hi Brian,

I don't really recall. Too be honest, I didn't get to do much editing this past year so I am very behind. It might have been the switch that caused it.

Thanks,

Teran

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

The catalog contains all the version set information. If it wasn't converted during the upgrade you would have lost all the version information and tags/albums. If this was the case I would have thought that if you import a new image and edit it you should be able to save it in a version set for that new image.

You could try to convert the catalog again providing you haven't deleted the PSE 12 catalog from the system.

WARNING - before you continue, I suggest you make a new backup [File -> Backup catalog] to an external drive just in case something goes wrong.

Now rename your current catalog [File -> Manage catalogs - select current catalog and click on Rename button - enter a new name then click on OK]

Next we'll try the conversion again. In manage catalogs, click on the Convert button. Hopefully, you old PSE 12 catalog should show in the list, select it click on Convert button and then Done. Close the manage catalog box.

Now see if version sets work. Depending on you answer, we might have to take some other actions.

Brian

[esetter]

I'm having the same problem with Photoshop Elements 2018 (and PE 14).  To make matters worse, photos that are "saved as" with a new name no longer have people's tagged names and captions.  All in all, these ongoing flaws make the Organizer almost worthless.

[esetter]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I've been able to isolate, a bit, my grayed out version set problem.  It only seems to occur (both PE 14 and my trial PE 2018) with those files I've taken and imported within the past month (the only ones I've taken in 2018).  It's not a camera problem because the problem occurs with photos taken by my camera and two different smart phones.

I've optimized, repaired (nothing to be repaired),  backed up and restored the catalog files, but nothing seems to help.  Interestingly, if I start a new catalog and import a few 2018 files, the grayed out version set problem seems to go away. However, I have 35,000 photos in my catalog, so starting from scratch is impractical.

Any suggestions?

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi Esetter,

The problem with the greyed out thumbnails sounds like a problem with the thumbnail database. The generation of the thumbnails usually takes place in the background. It has been known that PSE has difficulty generating the thumbnail for some video files.

Since everything works ok on your test system, that suggests the program is working properly.

I suggest you try resetting the thumbnail cache as follows:-

1     Find the location of your catalog [In organizer, go to Help -> System Info]

2     Close the organizer

3     Use Windows File Explorer to go to that location

4     In the catalog folder you should see the file thumb.5.cache - rename it to oldthumb.5.cache

5     Load the organizer

All the thumbnails will turn grey but should start regenerating. With 35,000 photos, it may take some time.

Brian

[esetter]

Thanks for the suggestion, Brian. I’m updating tge thumbnails now. i don’t know why the thumbnail cache would affect the grayed out “save in version set”, but it’s worth a try. I also renamed the faces cache, since I mo longer use it.

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

The other thing to try is resetting the preferences for both organizer and editor

For PSE 2018 or PSE 14:-

In organizer, go to Edit -> Preferences -> General and click on the Restore default settings button

In editor, go to Edit -> Preferences -> G eneral and click on the Reset preferences on next launch - the stop/start the editor

Brian

[esetter]

Tried them both, but nothing worked in either PSE14 or PSE 2018.  Before making the changes to PSE 2018, I even deleted the few catalog items that needed to be reconnected (the original files had been deleted previously).

Edit Update: I should add, if the "real" Photoshop or an external editor is used for editing, rather than the PSE Editor, the Organizer seems to append "_edited-1" to the file name prior to passing the file on to the edit program AND, simultaneously, saves this new file in a version set.  When this edit program saves the edited file, it replaces replace the unedited "_edited-1" file in the version set (hope this makes sense). BUT, nothing similar is done if the PSE editor is used.

I really like the way the Organizer used to work, and hope there's a way to salvage the work that went into the photo organization.

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

I have been trying to recreate your problem but I find that the only way I can get the "save in version set" to be greyed out is if I open an image, which is not in my catalog, directly  in the editor.

Do you start in the organizer, select an image and then go to edit?

Once the editor is open showing the image, if you minimize the editor to show the organizer, does the "Edit in Progress" message appear over the thumbnail?

Brian

[esetter]

Brian, you may be on to something - even if I'm not sure where it leads us.  In both PE14 and PE2018, I have been starting in the Organizer and then going into either the PE editor or an external editor (usually Photoshop CS5).

The following observations are true for both PE14 andPE2018:

1. When using either a "newer" or "older" photo and an external editor, a new file with an "_edited-1" suffix is immediately added to the Organizer thumbnail and the new file is immediately added to the version set. There is NO red band indicating a locked file.  If the edited file is saved, I am asked if I want to replace the existing "edited-1 file". If I don't save it, the unedited "edit-1 file" remains in the version set.

2. When using the PE Editor with an "older" file, the Organizer thumbnail is locked and shows the red band, but an "edited-1" file is NOT created. The PE Editor will give me the option to save the edited file in a version set with the default edited-1 suffix.

3. When using the PE Editor with a "newer" file, the Organizer thumbnail is NOT locked, there is NO red band, and a file with an "edited-1" suffix is NOT created.  When using the Save As command, the save in version set is grayed out.

4. Interestingly, if a newer file is already in a version set (because an external editor was previously used), the Save As command does have the version set option available (it doesn't work quite right because the default is to save it to the same edited-1 file that was being edited.  If I clear the version set box and re-click it, the edited-1 will change to the edited-2 which it should be).

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

Gosh that's a lot to take in.

I'm sorry but I live in the UK and it is my bedtime plus I have just had a nightcap (whiskey) so it is all spinning around in my head.

I will sleep on it, give it more thought tomorrow and get back to you.

Brian

[esetter]

I appreciate you taking the time to look into this.  If it hadn't been for your last comment, I wouldn't have thought to try to further isolate the problem.

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi Teran & Esetter,

Teran, are you still with us and still suffering from the problem?

Some questions for you both:-

1     Did you suffer from this problem before you upgraded?

2     Do you ever go back to your old version of the organizer?

3     Do you use Watched folders?

I'm hoping you answers are 1=No, 2=Yes & 3=Yes

I'm wondering if there is a problem with having two versions of PSE on the same PC using the same set of images. After converting the catalog, if you load your old version and add a tag to an image, that tag setting will not occur in the new catalog. The catalogs are not kept in sync.

I have versions 8 thru 2018 on my system for testing purpose but each has its own set of images (at least I hope)

I think that once you have decided to stay with the upgraded version, then it is best to only use the new organizer. If the old editor has a feature that you liked then you could set that editor as an external editor and it should work ok.

The difference between using the PSE editor (for the version of the organizer) and using an external editor (like PS) is that the organizer creates the "_Edited" version and adds it to the version set before it opens the external editor. The PSE editor creates it when you save it.

I await your answers.

Brian

[esetter]

1. I was experiencing the problem with standalone PE14 AND now with both PE14 and my PE 2018 trial. Never had a problem with earlier versions. I don’t recall whether I had a problem with 14 after I upgraded to it because I was using only Photoshop CS5 as an external editor, not the PE 14 editor. I have to believe it a catalog problem because I don’t think (I’m out of town, so I can’t be 100% sure) I have the problem if I start a new catalog. Unfortunately, importing and recreating the version sets and stacks for a new catalog would be a monumental problem.

2. Yes. The problem persists in PE 14.

3. I don’t use watched folders

Although I’d prefer to use 2018, i’d Be happy to use any version that worked without having to convert 35,000 photos and recreate version sets and stacks.

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

In my case all is working ok - I always get the version set option and updated.

Can you give me some ideas about your workflow.

When you import new photos, are you importing them into PSE 14, PSE 2018 or both?

What do you do in PSE 14 organizer?

Brian

[esetter]

As I think I mentioned, I can’t replicate the problem with a new catalog- only with the existing one Which has 35,000 photos.

I’m not doing anything unusual in the Organizer. After uploading photos to my hard drive, I might first use Faststone Image Viewer to delete obvious non-keepers. Afterwards,  I’ll upload photos into the Organizer and then determine any others that should be deleted (from both the Catalog and the hard drive).  Photos are tagged to keywords manually and some are assigned to albums

Photos that are edited will be added to the same version set as the original. In some cases, I will use stacks to “combine” different cropped files and/or raw files into a single “view” for browsing

[Little_Pale_Face]

Hi,

Since my last question was about PSE 14, your reply suggests that you do most of your work in PSE 14.

If you use PSE 2018, how do you access the images recently imported into PSE 14?

Brian