Annoying Undo behavior. Fixable?

[Navarro_Parker]

Here's my biggest pet peeve about Photoshop:

I'm currently working on Layer A. I select Layer B in the layer palette, then select the move tool (v). I move the layer in XY (not layer order). I release the mouse.  I don't like where I put it, so I hit Undo. (Or step backward in the history)

Photoshop resets Layer B's position, but then it also reselects Layer A! No, stay with Layer B! I just want to move it again! This is especially annoying when I have 100+ layers and Layer A is at the top and Layer B is down at the bottom of the stack.  I have to scrollscrollscroll to get back down to Layer B.

Is there any way to "fix" this? Shouldn't the History Palette record what a layer selection as an step? To me, it seems Undo is really taking TWO steps back (reset layer XY position and reselect previously selected layer).

[c.pfaffenbichler]

There has quite recently been a (or maybe »another«) Feature Request regarding this, so You could post there to increase the request’s »importance«.

[Michael_L_Hale]

There has been a lot to debate about this. 'Undo' and 'Step Back' are not the same thing. Undo will undo the move without changing the layer selection. Step Back may change the layer selection if the active layer is changed after the history state was created.

Selecting a layer does not create a history state. You could change layers a dozen times and as long as you don't do anything other that select layers no additional history states will be created.

[Guest]

Yes, that Feature Request is here:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2526143#2526143

Apparently, there is a difference of opinion on the subject. Some view it as perfectly logical, while others, myself included, find it endlessly annoying.

[DermotPower]

thanks for the update!

I am the side of finding it endlessly annoying.

Dermot Power

www.dermotpower.com

http://dmoxia.blogspot.com (blog comic)

[DermotPower]

I have the same problem with photoshop undoing a layer selection and it is incredibly irritating. I use undo not just to correct a mistake but as a way of drawing e.g I put down a stroke to see what it looks like then undo it and stroke again ...bit like a practice golf swing. Very often I will hit a layer, stroke, undo, stroke again and keep drawing only to discover that I have been drawing on the wrong layer because photoshop undo brought me back two steps.

[Niles_Ridgeman]

Absolutely agree.

This is a super pain in the butt that has cost me all kinds of errors.

Photoshop didn’t used to do that, but it was a “feature” on one of the upgrades (no idea when cs maybe?).

You choose a layer (or layer mask), choose a brush, and choose a colour, realize you’ve got one of the three wrong, hit undo — bang you are back to where you started. It’s just too easy to not realize it’s gone back to the previous layer. Then you end up damaging that layer when you thought you were safely somewhere else.

Drives me crazy!!!

[DermotPower]

as they say 'don't get me started'. Did you ever wish that the tech-nerds who design the apps sat in a room with you for a few days and watched a professional work and complain?

Dermot Power

www.dermotpower.com

http://dmoxia.blogspot.com/

[Chris Cox · Accepted solution]

Actually, we do that all the time (sitting for a while with professionals and watching them work).

Also, most of our developers are serious Photoshop users (photographers, painters, illustrators, etc.).

Photoshop isn't developed in a vacuum.

And what you are describing is not a bug -- just something that some people understand and some people don't about how history and undos work.

As far as I know, it has been there for as long as history and undo have existed in Photoshop.

[DermotPower]

really? 'serious photoshop users' ? as opposed to...what, jokey ones?

And you tell me photoshop is not developed in a vacuum? I can't believe it!

I understand how your undo and history states work but that doesn't make the feature any less annoying.

I've been using photoshop for 13 years as a professional 'serious' illustrator. I jump over and back between

Corel Painter and photoshop taking advantage of the best bits of each and trying to avoid the worst bits.

As far as I know I have not always had that problem until I bought CS4 last year.

It might be something wrong with how I've set up my keyboard shortcuts for example but a suggestion on how

to deal with the problem would be much more helpful than your history lesson.

Dermot Power

www.dermotpower.com

http://dmoxia.blogspot.com/

[Niles_Ridgeman]

It was a change at some point, I remember it distinctly. Couldn't tell you when, mind you.

And I do understand how history works, but it still causes me problems, and would love be able to turn it off.

It's hard to remember when you make a simple mistake (as I say, usually a wrong brush, or colour — particularly using black when you mean white or visa versa in a mask) and thinking back to weather you changed layers in the pervious step.

It's particularly awkward in large documents with many layers and it's taken a bit of effort to choose the right layer in the first place.

[Lojambo]

And what you are describing is not a bug -- just something that some people understand and some people don't about how history and undos work.

This is such a disappointing answer.

Your loyal long-time users on this thread disagree with you. The fact you assume they are ignorant makes me doubt that Photoshop will ever again be the great product it once was.

I know how it works and I hate it.

I know there are two slightly different ways to get back to a time before my last action, with slightly different results, and I think it's user-hostile.

I assume there is some internally-consistent justification for the decision behind this UX, but I don't care. I can't use a justification.

The user experience is bad.

All too often I see user conversations with Adobe which follow this form:

User: The user experience is bad.

Adobe: You're wrong, we did that on purpose, here's a complicated workaround.

User: Make it easy, please.

Adobe: Get used to it.

[Niles_Ridgeman]

lol.

Agreed.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

So in this thread four users have expressed dissatisfaction with the current behaviour – do You really think that justifies the programming effort to change it? (And I certainly don’t know what kind of effort that would have to be.)

Have any of You bothered to post in the Feature Request Forum about it?

[Navarro_Parker]

Anyone know if CS5 "fixes" this behavior?

[lambivello]

No! it did not!!!  ...im so tired.

[ethanbm]

This behaviour changed in Photoshop 7, and it was incredibly irritating. Every time a new version comes out, I hope to God there's a new preference to set to remedy this.

This seems like a pretty common workflow:

1. Select a layer.

2. Move it (for instance)

3. Don't like the change, so you want it back exactly where it was, at which point the only thing to do is undo.

4. Then go in to move it again, but now you're moving the wrong layer.

at which point you have to

6. undo that.

7. find the layer you want again

8. start over

I have a hard time believing this doesn't happen to every photoshop user, but who knows, maybe it doesn't.

Please at least consider making this a preference.

As a back of the box feature for CS6, this would do more to make me consider upgrading than any amount of goofy 3D features or other nonsense.

[Gyno-jiz]

Undo doesn't do what you're describing. Step backwards does. Switch the key commands for undo and step backwards. Problem solved.

[ethanbm]

Excellent. Years of frustration put behind me.

[demonskunk2]

problem not solved. Undo only allows you to go back one step. Undo is now worthless. I don't even use the undo keys any more because I've never made a single mistake worth undoing, it's always at least two or three strokes I'd like to fix.

[Guest]

> Undo only allows you to go back one step. Undo is now worthless.

The default behaviour of Undo has always been to toggle off and on the last thing done. The only difference I see now is that CS5 doesn't have it in the Preferences to change that behaviour to multiple undos. But that's what Cmd-Option-Z is for. (And while I'm here, need I mention that Cmd-Shift-Z will back up any number of undos.)

And as far as the OP's criticism, I don't get it. If I use the history panel to go to a previous history state, I expect to be in a previous history state: and that includes whether or not I had layer A or B selected at the time. If one just wants to undo the last thing you did: use Undo. The idea that History States and Undo should work the same is counter productive.

[fruityth1ng-T0qBnM]

We're all really happy for you that you like the way it currently works

I think the point of the people that have issues with the current implementation is mostly that they'd like Undo and Step back to behave more alike. (Alike being for instance: without layer changes that happened before a first brush stroke on a new layer) - The sorry thing is: they got it right in the regular undo, and painful in the history states.

Personally, I think it's counter intuitive to use two types of undo. Because "step back in history" to me, is just another undo. I'd like to not have to think about if my next undo will be an undo for a single-, or multiple steps, which is what this current implementation forces me to remember. Whereas if this issue were fixed, I could just press undo, and press it a couple O' times more if needed.

I think it's worth investigating, seeing as some people mention using panels, how many people altered the undo & history shortcuts, and how many use something like the history panel.

[Guest]

It seems to me if you had read the last line of my comment you would have been aware that I didn't need the explanation given by your first paragraph. And glad to see that you talk for all Photoshop users.

You say Step Back is just another Undo. Perhaps you could explain the logic behind requiring two undos? The reality is that the two things are different and I think the nuance of control given by that difference only makes sense.

> which is what this current implementation forces me to remember

But you are not forced to remember any such thing. If you want to go back to a previous history state, click the history state. If you want to undo a specific action, or series of actions, hit Undo, or Cmd-Option-Z as many times as you need.

[Lojambo]

And I think the nuance of control given by that difference only makes for confusion.

As fruityth1ng said, it's swell that it works for you, but I for one cannot see any benefit in having two slightly different ways to step back in time.

I don't see any logic behind Undo ≠ 1 x Step Back.

On my reading, no-one in this thread claims to speak for all Photoshop users.

[fruityth1ng-T0qBnM]

Reading M Blackburns last paragraph, as directed, I now realize he states it himself:

"And as far as the OP's criticism, I don't get it."