Color saturation difference between PS and LRC

Explorer ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Although my color settings are ProPhoto RGB both on LrC and Ps I am not succeeding in having the same colors on Lrc and Ps.

The colors on Ps seem to be a bit less saturated and a bit less red than on Lr or even when displaying elsewhere on the computer or on the Web.

Even when exporting directly from LrC to Ps (and ProPhoto RGB is requested in the specifications) it arrives on Ps less saturated. When saved on Ps and viewed in LrC, the image will be saturated as original.

 

Anyone can help please?

Thx

Ari

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correct answers 2 Correct Answers

Adobe Community Professional , Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021
A couple of thoughts You say you have calibrated and profiled your monitors. Are you producing v2 profiles (as opposed to v4 profiles) for your monitors? In theory both should work OK but the v2 seem to cause less issues and may be worth a check with the symptoms you are showing. Have you tried unplugging one of the monitors and checking with just one available. There were some issues a while back with the wrong monitor profile being picked up when two were present.     Dave

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Adobe Community Professional , Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021
ariro7   If you are viewing Lightroom and Photoshop on the same external screen then you may like to try this:   Mac: Dual monitor issues in Photoshop   Here is my workaround for MacBook users: Set both Display screens to use the master display profile (normally the external display) in the System preferences / color pane - that fixes many dual screen appearance issues, but of course the MacBook screen is now inaccurate. so it's only a workaround 'til Adobe can fix this issue.    Setting your Ma...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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A couple of things:

1. Check your monitor profile. This is set in your operating system and used by both Photoshop and Lightroom. However if it is faulty it can impact both differently. The best way is to build a new profile with a hardware calibration device but as a faultfinding measure you could temporarily set it to sRGB (or ARGB if you have a wide gamut monitor). That will not be fully accurate but at least both LR and Photoshop should look the same.

 

2. You mention viewing on the computer or the web. ProPhoto should go nowhere near the web or non colour managed applications. For that use Export from Lightroom or Photoshop and both convert to sRGB and Embed the color profile. That way colour managed applications will see it correctly and non colour managed applications/browsers will display incorrectly but be consistent with other images on the web.

 

Dave

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Explorer ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Thank you Dave, 

1. I am working on two monitors; one is my MacBook Pro 15' and the other one is a LaCie 21'
The colors are calibrated with an external device.

I went to the Mac OS system preferences and switched the color profile to sRGB for both monitors as you said but it didn't change de difference. When I am talking about difference, is of course same image on same monitor.

2. Yes of course ProPhoto is not working elsewhere and especially not on the web. But anywhere will be closer to LrC than to the appearance on Ps.

 

I really don't understand what is this issue. For general info, I am not a beginner... 😉

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Ari

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Are you using third-party/custom camera profiles in Lightroom? There is a bug that causes these profiles to not be correctly transferred from Lightroom to ACR. The bug has been reported, but I don't know where a fix is in the pipeline. It doesn't happen with the standard profiles, and it doesn't happen with DNGs.

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Explorer ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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I am importing Raw files from my Fuji GFX that are set to Adobe RGB.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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The color space setting in camera makes no difference. It only applies to the jpegs. I was wondering what camera profile you were using in Lightroom. If you use special profiles here, they may not be correctly handled in ACR > Photoshop:

camera-profile.png

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Explorer ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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I am using Adobe color

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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A couple of thoughts

You say you have calibrated and profiled your monitors. Are you producing v2 profiles (as opposed to v4 profiles) for your monitors? In theory both should work OK but the v2 seem to cause less issues and may be worth a check with the symptoms you are showing.

Have you tried unplugging one of the monitors and checking with just one available. There were some issues a while back with the wrong monitor profile being picked up when two were present.

 

 

Dave

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Hey Dave,

That was a good idea to unplug and to compare the images on the only MacBook Pro screen. 

It shows the same colors. Now I know it's an external display issue.

I have also followed Neil (NB, Colourmanagement Net) that suggested I should try to switch the external display color profile to another profile. I found one called DisplayProfile_linear.icc and YES both images from LrC and Ps are similar now.

I'll have to retry another calibration and see what happens. 
Thank you very much for your time and help guys.

Ari from Paris France

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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OK, so now we know that a monitor profile set up for the external display will be correctly used by both PS and Lr. That's progress.

 

So the next step is to put the right profile there. You cannot "try" monitor profiles - it has to be the right one. The profile is a map, and it has to correspond to the terrain. Otherwise there's no point.

 

The profile also has to be correctly written to icc specification. I still suspect that was the original problem. To make sure, do as Dave said and specify version 2 and matrix-based profiles. This is always safer than v4 and/or table-based (LUT), mainly because these profiles are simpler and less complex (but not any less accurate).

 

A calibrator solves all these problems - if you have one. That's still a bit unclear. If you don't, get one.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Yes, this is most likely a bad monitor profile. From the description it checks all the boxes.

 

ariro - there is no need to have the same color settings or the same color profile in PS and Lightroom. Any color profile out of Lightroom will be correctly handled in Photoshop regardless. The embedded profile will always override the working space in Photoshop. Or at least it should, as long you don't change the default policy to "preserve embedded profiles".

 

The whole point of color management is that color spaces no longer need to match. Any color managed application will display and handle everything correctly. Unless there's a broken profile in the mix.

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Explorer ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Thank you D Fosse,

I have tried different monitor profiles but it didn't help.

There's always a difference of hue and saturation when switching from Ps to LrC.

Where could I have changed the default policy to preserve embedded profiles? I can't find it.

 

Ari

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Ariro - You mention "when displaying elsewhere on the computer or on the Web"

 

IF elsewhere on the computer includes using Windows Photos, then, as that program does not use colour management, please note that it is incapable of showing accurate colour.

 

If you are placing Pro Photo RGB images on the web then that’s an almost certainly a fail because the (current) ideal web colourspace is sRGB, pleas convert, save with 'embed the profile' and place that. 

 

it COULD be a bad display profile, as has been mentioned

 

Display profile issues on Windows

At least once a week on this forum we read about this, or very similar issues of appearance differing between colour managed applications.

Of course, you must not expect accurate colour with programs such as Windows "Photos", because colour management is not implemented there so such programs are incapable of providing accurate image display.

 

Unfortunately, with Microsoft hardware: Windows updates, Graphics Card updates and Display manufacturers have a frustratingly growing reputation for installing useless (corrupted) monitor display profiles.

I CAN happen with Macs but with far less likelihood, it seems.

 

The issue can affect different applications in different ways, some not at all, some very badly.

 

The poor monitor display profile issue is hidden by some applications, specifically those that do not use colour management, such as Microsoft Windows "Photos".

 

Photoshop is correct, it’s the industry standard for viewing images, in my experience it's revealing an issue with the Monitor Display profile rather that causing it. Whatever you do, don't ignore it. As the issue isn’t caused by Photoshop, don’t change your Photoshop ‘color settings’ to try fix it. 

 

To find out if the monitor display profile is the issue, I recommend you to try setting the monitor profile for your own monitor display under “Device” in your Windows ‘color management’ control panel to sRGB temporarily. 

You can ADD sRGB if its not already listed. 

And be sure to check “Use my settings for this device”.

 

(OR, if you have a wide gamut monitor display (check the spec online) it’s better to try Adobe RGB here instead).

Quit and relaunch Photoshop after the control panel change, to ensure the new settings are applied.

 

Color Management.jpg

Screenshot of Color Management Control Panel 

 

Depending on the characteristics of your monitor display and your requirements, using sRGB or Adobe RGB here may be good enough - but custom calibration is a superior approach.

 

If this change fixes the issue, it is recommended that you should now calibrate and profile the monitor properly using a calibration sensor like i1display pro, which will create and install it's own custom monitor profile. The software should install it’s profile correctly so there should be no need to manually set the control panel once you are doing this right. 

 

 

 

Still got problems?

If you want to try a method that’s proved successful to rule out many an issue we see with Photoshop, you can reset preferences:

 

To reset the preferences in Photoshop: 

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/preferences.html

 

Note: Make sure that you back up all your custom presets, brushes & actions before restoring Photoshop's preferences. Migrate presets, actions, and settings

 

 

I hope this helps

neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer

google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

 

 

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Explorer ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Thank you Neil,
As I replied earlier, of course, ProPhoto is not working elsewhere and especially not on the web. But anywhere will be closer to LrC than to the appearance on Ps.

I am on a Mac, not Windows.

I will try resetting the preferences.

 

Ari

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Hi,

maybe you are seeing a variation on the issue discussed here: https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/photoshop/inconsistent-color-display-on-external-monito...

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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ariro7

 

If you are viewing Lightroom and Photoshop on the same external screen then you may like to try this:

 

Mac: Dual monitor issues in Photoshop

 

Here is my workaround for MacBook users:

Set both Display screens to use the master display profile (normally the external display) in the System preferences / color pane

- that fixes many dual screen appearance issues, but of course the MacBook screen is now inaccurate. so it's only a workaround 'til Adobe can fix this issue. 

 

Setting your MacBook (in system preferences displays/color to use the external display profile), it not destructive, you can easily switch back

 

Open System Preferences: Displays/color

see the icon there - at the left of row 2?

Click it.

 

SCREENSHOT:

System Preferences.jpg

 

you'll now see 2  dialog boxes, one on each screen, if you set each to the 'color' tab, they'll show the selected display screen ICC profile for that screen along with a list of others that are available.

[you may need to uncheck "show profiles for this display only"]

Simply check the name of the profile that’s being used on the external display in the dropdown list and select that from the list on your MacBook. 

Done.

You may need to restart Photoshop.

 

To change the MacBook back, should you wish to, perhaps for stand alone use, simply select the original display screen ICC profile again on the MacBook - it's probably called "colorLCD"

 

I have a few test profiles here in the screen-shot below, ignore those, you also can see the original "color LCD", that’s' a display screen ICC profile that Apple made automatically for my Macbook 

 

SCREENSHOT:

Open Profile.jpg

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Thank you very much Neil, 

Yes it helped!

I found a color profile called DisplayProfile_linear.icc and YES both images from LrC and Ps are similar now.

I'll have to retry another calibration and see what happens. 
Thank you very much for your time and help.

Ari (from Paris, France)

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Hi

 

you are very welcome.

is that an M1 chip MacBook by the way? I've added a note below about that.

 

yes, make a good profile using your calibration/profiling kit and set that for both,

with the obvious disadvantage that your MacBook now has an inaccurate appearance. 

 

:: CALIBRATION & PROFILING OF YOUR SYSTEM::

IF you are doing any serious imaging work and would like to see continuity of appearance between your system and others, such as a print service - or even your own printer - then your main working display really does need to be calibrated & profiled.

For that you'll need a sensor such as the X-Rite i1display pro (better than Spyder).

I highly recommend basICColor display v6 calibration & profiling software -  

and select v2 ICC profiles. as they seem more universally acceptable

more here https://www.colourmanagement.net/products/basiccolor/basiccolor-display-software/

 

With any calibration you need to be sure that the achieved result is accurate, my belief is that the only way to achieve that is by using an unequivocal reference, a physical reference item. For this I use http://www.colourmanagement.net/products/icc-profile-verification-kit

 

 

I wonder if this is predominantly an issue on M1 chip macs and dual displays?

It seems that Apple have 'changed' the display sensing/ display description on those Macs to show displays as "unknown", internally rather than by name.  

I was speaking to the developer of basICColor display 6 software about this today and he came across the issue, for which he has had to develop a workaround. Of course it's been reported to Apple but as their "issue with LUT type ICC profiles" has been around since OSX 10.12 and much reported, maybe a fix will not happen anytime soon.  

If anyone would like to test display 6 on their mac which is showing this issue it would be great to have feedback: https://www.colourmanagement.net/products/basiccolor/basiccolor-display-software/

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 27, 2021 Feb 27, 2021

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Hi ariro7

thanks for your thanks

you wrote: "

I have also followed Neil (NB, Colourmanagement Net) that suggested I should try to switch the external display color profile to another profile. I found one called DisplayProfile_linear.icc and YES both images from LrC and Ps are similar now.

I'll have to retry another calibration and see what happens. "

I'm pleased that what you tried worked, but of course as D.Fosse writes its vital that at least the main (most important) display has a correct profile. SO do be sure to redo the calibration. Make. V2 profile.

Actually what I suggested was to set the less important (internal?) display to the same icc profile as the more important one. In a Macbook scenario, the external display is normally used as the main (most important) display, so you'd set the MacBook to that display's profile.

 

I hope that works

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

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