could not save because write access was not granted (Mac OS)

Oct 01, 2010

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I keep getting the above error when working off of my xserve in photoshop. It is new in CS5 which we have recently upgraded to. Several people at my office are getting it. Sometimes it displays a random name with afp in front of it (I assume it is the temp name when photoshop is swapping out the new file for the old file.) It only seems to happen with psd and psb files. I have write access to the volume in question and it doesn't matter if I am the only one accessing the folder or not. I can save as and it seems to work; but it does delete the file.

Very frustrating. Anybody have any ideas? My IT guys are struggling with it, and one of them used to work on the Flash team as well as at Apple.

Hi everyone,

The recent Mac OS X 10.8.4 released yesterday has specifically named the following fix:

  • Resolves an issue saving files to an Xsan volume from certain applications

referenced from this Apple KB article. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5730

If you are still experiencing this issue, please update to 10.8.4 and then re-test in your environment. Please let us know if you are still experiencing issues.

The KB article also mentions this fix:

  • A fix for an issue that may prevent changes to files made over NFS from displaying
  • A fix for an issue that may prevent documents from being saved to a server using SMB

In general this OS update has a number of network save fixes in it that we recommend users try out.

Thanks,

Jeff

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Dec 08, 2011

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After a lot of frustration here today, we were able to resolve this issue by turning off "Show Icon Preview" in the Finder, using OSX 10.7.2.

It looks like, for our situation, this error was the result of a conflict between Photoshop and the Finder. We "fixed" this conflict by turning off the Finder "Show View Options":

  Show Icon Preview = OFF

If that is turned off, the problem goes away. Optionally, you can turn off Photoshop's preference to save icon previews. That also "fixed" it. But since Show Icon Preview is a network hog, and our server software (Xinet) already makes icon previews, we chose to turn that off.

Hope that helps a few folks,

James

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Dec 08, 2011

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jpword wrote:

…since Show Icon Preview is a network hog, and our server software (Xinet)…

You're working across a network? 

This is the boilerplate text often used in connection to saving to a network (please NOTE the part where it explains that normally, it does work, but that it is impossible to troubleshoot someone else's network remotely, and that's why it's not supported by Adobe):

If you are opening files over a network or saving them to a network server, please cease and desist immediately in the event you are currently experiencing problems with one or more files. Working across a network is not supported.


See: 

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/406/kb406793.html

  Copy the CLOSED file from your server to your local hard disk, work on it, save it again to your local hard disk, close it, and copy the closed file back to the server.
 
     Of course, the fact that Adobe does not support working across a network does not necessarily mean it won't work.   It should.

    Adobe's position is that there are too many variables in a network environment for them to guarantee that everything will work correctly in every network, especially given the fact that if something does not work properly, it's probably the network's fault, and Adobe has no way of troubleshooting your network.

  If you can't work locally, you are on your own, and if something happens, you're on your own. If you must work from a server, make sure your network administrator is a competent professional.

When problems arise, a lot of valuable work can be lost.

____________

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了        No connection to Adobe, just another end user.

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Dec 08, 2011

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Hi,

Yep, over a network.

Works fine with "Show Icon Preview" turned off, which is part of Adobe's "normally, it does work" message... but I completly agree with you, if you have sensitive image files, and no backup, you should certainly not work over the network... but many people do and I wanted to share why Photoshop was denying the write with the, "write access was not granted" message. It's because our server respects locks and the Finder had the resource fork locked trying to make its Icon Preview.

Photoshop should detect when that's the case, and avoid the original file from being deleted. The error is fine, and justified. The delete is not.

Thanks,

James

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Dec 08, 2011

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Thanks James!

I will give this a try tomorrow. We ate also on Xinet with a 10gig backbone

working off the network with 2 gig aggregated to the desktops.

Sent from my iPhone

Mark Campbell

Production Technology Director

The Integer Group

303.619.1166

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Dec 08, 2011

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>>> Photoshop should detect when that's the case, and avoid the original file from being deleted. The error is fine, and justified. The delete is not.

We're still working with Apple to determine how that happens, and make sure it gets fixed or we find a way to avoid the problem.

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Dec 14, 2011

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Hi Chris et al,

I am very glad to hear that Adobe are now working on this with Apple. I have to go to a meeting with our users on Friday to discuss with them what progress has been made on fixing this, could you answer a few questions so I am able to give them an update?

- How long have Adobe been working with Apple on this?

- What progress has been made so far?

- Are there any recommended workarounds in the short-term?

- Is there an estimated time to resolve?

- What priority is being given to the issue at both companies?

Also if it helps towards a resolution at all, we have observed that this problem only occurs on certain sharepoints. We have a number of shares that are all hosted on the same Xsan volume, but the error only occurs with files stored on a few of these shares; users who are accessing the other shares never see the problem. I am more than happy to provide any diags that we can to Adobe/Apple regarding these shares.

Many thanks

Dan

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Dec 14, 2011

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We've beenn working with Apple on related issues for years.

We recently identified a particular defect in the Apple SMB implementation that can cause a problem like this.  We are attempting to create workarounds in our code (and better error detection), but the core problem is in the MacOS code.

And we never know Apple's priorities.

The only known user workaround is to save on the local disk, then copy to the server.

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Jan 24, 2012

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So this issues of 'afpDeletedxxxxxxxxxxx' and 'Write access was not granted' in Photoshop are now happening in my environment.  The users (about 20) have worked off of a Mac Server for 10+ years using Quark, InDesgin, Photoshop, you name it and have never had any issues until the past month or so.  While I understand Adobe's stance on not working off of a server, I have been put in a tough as the system that worked for 10 years suddenly is not longer working consistently.  Try telling someone they have to change the way they have been working for 10 years with no problems until now?  No one is going to like that. 

Here is a little info about the setup and troublehsooting I have tried

• 2 Mac Pro Servers running 10.6.8 - 1 is an OD master, the other is a OD replica which exists only in case of a disaster.  The OD Master replicates its data 4 times a day to the OD replica using Carbon Copy Cloner.  (The replication process has been in place and untouched for 3 years now)  (I know when CCC runs and users have reported the saving issue at times that match up with CCC and times that do not.  I even disabled the replication for a day and it still happened)

• The deisgners are all on Mac Pros purchased within the last three years and all are running 10.6.8 and CS5.5.  As I said the connect via the built in AFP using their Open Directory Credentials using the Open Directory Authentication Attribute.  All the designers have an internal drive dedicated to Time Machine.  I have disabled Time Machine and the issue still happens. 

• The designers are very careful about accessing each others files.  Are the designer's project folders are color coded to alert other designers to stay out.  Other designer's browsing the directory is not the cause.

• There has been no major change in software or hardware in the last 6 months so I cannot attribute that to the file saving issue.

When stuff was changed

CS5.5 and 10.6.8 Deployed in June 2011

OD Master Replaced (Xserve -> Mac Pro) in March 2011

3 New Mac Pros deployed in September 2011

If anyone could shed any light on this issue I cannot tell you how much I would appreciate it.  I can upload logs if requested.  The next step I am likely to take is to bind all the machines to the OD master and implement Kerberos, futile?  Or a good idea?

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Jan 24, 2012

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There's only one workaround that I have found, and it's a pain. You have to go into Show View Options (Command J) and turn off the preview column.

It's a workaround that I found here with a full explaination of the issue: http://support.grouplogic.com/?p=1664

It works for me, but it's a pain because I have to hit the space bar to view previews, rather than having the finder present one to me. Slower, but safer.

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Jan 27, 2012

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Hi Gary,

As an addendum to your mail, we have run some reasonably extensive testing turning off the Finder preview options, but always seem to start seeing the problem again eventually. I would also add that these previews are written to the resource fork (._MyFile.jpg in the same directory for a file named MyFile.jpg) rather than the actual file and should not therefore hold any write lock over the original file.

However, in the last week or so, we seem to be seeing some success (fingers and toes crossed) with turning off the three preview options in Photoshop's own preferences as per the attached image. We've only been running with these off for a short time so no guarantees, but we can only hope.

Adobe Take Note: This would seem to indicate that your software may be holding a write lock on the file in order to write the preview. Please could you examine this section of your code to see if a resolution can be found here?

Dan

Picture 2-10.png

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Jan 27, 2012

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Just as a follow on to my previous post and Chris Cox's previous post, I have to say that I am horrified by the lack of helpfulness from Adobe on these issues. The people posting here are not single box copy end users, they are TLP and CLP licensees. My company spend in the region of £20,000 per year with Adobe. I would expect a somewhat less trite response.

I've heard the responses before. I know Adobe don't support working directly off a server. However, that is how large organisations work, it's time you did support it, even if only on a basic level. I'm not asking for support on working over GPRS from a Fuse mounted LTO file system, I'm asking for support on a Mac desktop working from an AFP share hosted by an Xserve on the same LAN and subnet. It's very easy.

I've heard the 'we do more checks' response. It doesn't wash. If that's the case, why don't we see files disappearing with any of the other applications we use, warning or no?

There are some very smart people in this forum, all of whom are willing to help with resolving this. Why do you refuse to engage with us?

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Jan 27, 2012

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He probably doesn't want to engage with a penguin of doom....

Anyways, I share your concerns, about Mr. Cox's responses however I would like to add that very few of the posts are actually bad mouthing the Adobe software and that (guessing here) 90% of the posters in this forum are coming here to start conversations with others in the same field to work together to find a solution.  I don't think anyone comes here to get a response from an 'Adobe Employee'.

With that being said, I have also implemented your idea about disabling Photoshop's desire to save a preview so we will see how this goes.  Ther user I disabled this for informed me he received the error 15-20 times yesterday.  He went from never to 15/day.  Needless to say this has not been a fun week.  I did also notice that spotlight searching was enabled on my share in Server Admin so I disabled it, did not help at all.

If The Penguin of Dooms idea fails here are my next attempts

Implement NFS for the problem user

Bind his computer to the server and implement Kerberos (long over due anyhow)

Would anyone have any other suggestions?  Thanks for all the help thus far

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Jan 27, 2012

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He probably doesn't want to engage with a penguin of doom....

Mwah haw haw

,o)

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Jan 27, 2012

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Dovahkiin27 wrote:

If The Penguin of Dooms idea fails here are my next attempts

Implement NFS for the problem user

Bind his computer to the server and implement Kerberos (long over due anyhow)

We are bound to AD with Kerberos, running Xinet on a RedHat Linux server with a 10gig backbone and 2 gig aggreagated from the clients and while we dont have the issue frequent, we still get it on occasion.  We work on very large files (Bus wraps, Baseball Banners, etc.)  We have turned off the preview for columns, icons, and will give the Photoshop preference of preview generation a try as well next time it happens. Luckily we have told our users about the workaround of duplicating the file in Photoshop and saving it.

The ridiculous part of all of this is afp has been around how long???? And ironically a new version of Photoshop just uncovered an error that has been there supposedly "forever" and previously we just didnt know about it because we didnt have the super special error reporting from Adobe??? I dont think so....Why did our files save before without crashing when we didnt get notified of an error (even if whatever error Adobe is reporting on was happening)???  Isnt that the real issue here? Adobe claims it is reporting on an "error" that is happening on Apple, but perhaps the act of reporting on it is what is causing the issue?  Maybe it is not an error at all, just a change of properties of the file and the reporting of that is what is causing the crash?  Has Adobe thought of this???  This is the kind of feedback I am sure a lot of us would like to hear from Adobe what their answers are and what they have investigated, or are investigating to ensure it is not an Adobe issue, but all we hear from them is "Its complicated.....we report on a lot of our vendors errors"  While that is all good, what are we supposed to do once we have the report?

At any rate, I sure hope they dont change the way files get saved for their other products in the CS suite to "protect us" with error reporting.

BTW we too are a super user of Adobe products and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars with them annually within our Agency Network. So I understand the frustration.

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Jan 27, 2012

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Just as a follow on to my previous post and Chris Cox's previous post, I have to say that I am horrified by the lack of helpfulness from Adobe on these issues.

The annoying thing was the time it took to get the point across that this wasn't an issue with 3rd party server software but with vanilla Mac to Mac OS connections.

This issue is still causing us a lot of problems and due to the large number of images that we handle for ad campaigns it would be a nightmate to deal with the data duplication and the risk that the server version is not the latest version of the images.

I don't know if this is related but we also get a lot of file reading errors in Photoshop if the file metadata is edited.

If you save a PSD and then close it on one Mac and then edit the metadata (using exiftool) from another Mac, the original Mac is then unable to open the file at all -- or can open the file but it's unusable because the image data is disrupted. We have to open and re-save the data from a different Mac before the original machine can re-open the file. [Note that the image was closed before the metadata edit was carried out and sufficient time was left to ensure that that exiftool had completed the edit].

Wonder if this is also the result of Photoshop's super special file handling routines? Certainly never seen this happen with any other software.

--

Martin

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Jan 27, 2012

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>> Adobe Take Note: This would seem to indicate that your software may be holding a write lock on the file in order to write the preview. Please could you examine this section of your code to see if a resolution can be found here?

That's one of the areas we looked at, and that is one of the areas where we found a problem with MacOS file handling on some network protocols.

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Jan 27, 2012

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>>> I've heard the 'we do more checks' response. It doesn't wash. If that's the case, why don't we see files disappearing with any of the other applications we use, warning or no?

I don't know why you don't see it.  We can reproduce such problems fairly often in other apps (and it's annoying as @$%^@#%).

We've been engaging with customers and OS vendors to solve the issue.

But the problem isn't simple, and the majority of what we've found it outside of our control -- but we're still investigating workarounds and improved error checking to detect OS failures.

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Jan 27, 2012

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>> Why did our files save before without crashing

We're not discussing crashes at all here, just files that fail to save correctly.

>> but perhaps the act of reporting on it is what is causing the issue?

Nope.  The error reporting happens after the OS has returned an error.

>> At any rate, I sure hope they dont change the way files get saved for their other products in the CS suite to "protect us" with error reporting.

So you prefer to quietly lose files on the server to actually being informed of the error coming from the OS?  Kind of a "head in the sand" approach to file management?

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Jan 27, 2012

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>> The annoying thing was the time it took to get the point across that this wasn't an issue with 3rd party server software but with vanilla Mac to Mac OS connections.

We've been working on the problem for a long time.  But the most common problem used to be with third party servers.

MacOS changes have made it occur more often on any server using AFP or SMB.

>> I don't know if this is related but we also get a lot of file reading errors in Photoshop if the file metadata is edited.

Not related.  But if you're seeing image corruption like that, then you're looking at a bug in EXIFTool or your network server.

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Jan 27, 2012

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>>> I don't know if this is related but we also get a lot of file reading errors in Photoshop if the file metadata is edited.

>> Not related.  But if you're seeing image corruption like that, then you're looking at a bug in EXIFTool or your network server.

If that were the case then why is it *only* the Mac that saved the original file that is unable to re-open the image?

If exiftool were hosing the data then none of the server clients would be able to open the file.

--

Martin

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Jan 27, 2012

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Losing a file because of a .afpdeleted file error to me is a crash. As far as a head in the sand approach, my point was whatever Adobe did to change the way files get saved, seemed to complicate and make the issue worse. Besides, what the &%$#@#$ am I going to do with a report? Re-write my OS or application? Come on, put yourself in our shoes, If you give me a report of an error, give me some resources what to do with that and some workarounds at least. If your going to be proactive and provide reports of other peoples errors, then you must think it is important enough to give some options of what to do with them even if it means making work arounds in your own application to get around the error.  If your taking the side that it is "their" problem, the minute you report on it, you are taking responsibility for it from a users perspective. Just think of all the people that dont read this forum that see Photoshop giving them an error when they save.  Have you heard anyone say they got an Apple error that Photoshop told me about? No..........Bottom line is we are the clients here, and the more we hear how Adobe changed something and now it doesnt work, the more we (the purchasers of your software) will continue to give Adobe the bad press that they broke it.  Especially when we post on a forum to ask these questions and they get so defensive.

Chris Cox wrote:

>> Why did our files save before without crashing

We're not discussing crashes at all here, just files that fail to save correctly.

>> but perhaps the act of reporting on it is what is causing the issue?

Nope.  The error reporting happens after the OS has returned an error.

>> At any rate, I sure hope they dont change the way files get saved for their other products in the CS suite to "protect us" with error reporting.

So you prefer to quietly lose files on the server to actually being informed of the error coming from the OS?  Kind of a "head in the sand" approach to file management?

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Jan 27, 2012

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I started this discussion in 2009 specifically because I was having this problem on a standard macos xserve back in oct. 2010. (actually since cs5 appeared). I have given up on a solution, and have been soldiering on, as it is not an option to not save to a server in my environment.

>>We've been working on the problem for a long time.  But the most common problem used to be with third party servers.

MacOS changes have made it occur more often on any server using AFP or SMB.

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Jan 27, 2012

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>> If that were the case then why is it *only* the Mac that saved the original file that is unable to re-open the image?

I don't know -- I don't have your systems to debug.

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Jan 27, 2012

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>> Losing a file because of a .afpdeleted file error to me is a crash.

No, a crash is a very specific thing.  Losing a file because of a file system error is not even remotely a crash.

>> whatever Adobe did to change the way files get saved,


All we did was check for more errors.

The OS may change behavior (because it changes from Carbon to Cocoa, and sometimes from OS version to version), but Photoshop really didn't.

We try to tell you about the errors so you know that something went wrong.  If you don't know about the error, you don't know that your file was lost. If you know about the error, you have a chance to resave the file.

I'm sorry we don't have a magic wand to wave and solve your problems -- but it is still far better that you know about the OS bug than just losing files at random.

And we are continuing to work with Apple, and working on our code (working around OS bugs) to prevent lost files.

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Jan 27, 2012

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And we are continuing to work with Apple, and working on our code (working around OS bugs) to prevent lost files.

Thats good to hear. Is there any kind of ETA on this? What kind of progress can we expect to see in CS6 or CS5.75?

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Jan 27, 2012

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There are too many changes involved for a dot release, and this sort of thing needs a lot of testing. So it would have to wait for a major release.

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Jan 30, 2012

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Chris Cox wrote:

I don't know why you don't see it.  We can reproduce such problems fairly often in other apps (and it's annoying as @$%^@#%).

Chris,

Could you please explain which applications you are able to reproduce this in and how? Could you also explain the save process that Photoshop implements when including the writing of previews?

This would go a long way to helping us to understand the problem.

Many thanks

Dan

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Jan 30, 2012

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We see the problem in most apps when saving to servers.  It's worst in any app that writes to a resource fork.

And when Photoshop writes MacOS thumbnails, it writes them to the resource fork.

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Jan 31, 2012

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Could you name a few please Chris? And the circumstances under which the errors occur so we can try to reproduce same here?

Could you also please detail the Photoshop save process?

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Feb 27, 2012

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Just happend to us again today.

Thanks GOODNESS I have DiskKeeper Undelte on my server system.  I can go back into the recovery bin and pull out the .afpdeleted file and then rename it on the PC side for the user.

At least we have a safety net installed where we can catch these.

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Mar 22, 2012

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Chris,

Is Adobe any closer to fixing the "write access not granted" issue? 

BTW, here is my work-around (let me know if you have a better one):

First "Save" or "Save As"....which initiates the error message (file gets deleted but document is still open)...

Second "Save" or "Save As" again.  The second save does not collide with the temp file and the same file name can be used.  This is good because Lightroom can still find it.

But...I should not be having to do this...it is frustrating, to say the least.

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Mar 22, 2012

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I wanted to post this a while ago but thought it best to wait until we'd had a decent test period.

We have been running now for some time with Photoshop's thumbnail creation prefs switched off as below.

Screen shot 2012-03-22 at 12.32.28.png

Running Photoshop configured this way, we never see the .afpDeleted error. This is a good workaround, and would also seem to be fairly conclusive proof that Photoshop is doing something wrong.

We also found another that for some reason Photoshop decides occasionally to quietly reset these settings. Perhaps Adobe would care to look into this? Can't really blame this one on anyone else.

To remedy this, we run the following script periodically. We run it from Casper as a policy ()with some additional logic code that I'm happy to supply to anyone who wants it), but you could just as easily run it from launchd or a however you please.

I hope this helps everyone suffering out there

Dan

-- set up logging

global docPath

set docPath to (path to library folder from user domain) & "Logs:" as string

global theLogFile

global logString

-- check if photoshop is open

if appIsRunning("Adobe Photoshop CS5") then

 

 

          tell application "Adobe Photoshop CS5"

 

  --Change Photoshop thumbnail preferences to do with saving thumbnails while logging results

                    if image previews of settings = yes or image previews of settings = ask then

                              my writelog("Image previews are set to " & image previews of settings & ", setting to no")

                              set image previews of settings to no

                    else

                              my writelog("Image previews are set to " & image previews of settings & ", leaving alone")

                    end if

 

                    if icon preview of settings = true then

                              my writelog("Icon preview is set to " & icon preview of settings & ", setting to false")

                              set icon preview of settings to false

                    else

                              my writelog("Icon preview is set to " & icon preview of settings & ", leaving alone")

                    end if

 

                    if Mac OS thumbnail of settings = true then

                              my writelog("Mac OS thumbnails are set to " & Mac OS thumbnail of settings & ", setting to false")

                              set Mac OS thumbnail of settings to false

                    else

                              my writelog("Mac OS thumbnails are set to " & Mac OS thumbnail of settings & ", leaving alone")

                    end if

 

                    if Windows thumbnail of settings = true then

                              my writelog("Windows thumbnails are set to " & Windows thumbnail of settings & ", setting to false")

                              set Windows thumbnail of settings to false

                    else

                              my writelog("Windows thumbnails are set to " & Windows thumbnail of settings & ", leaving alone")

                    end if

 

          end tell

 

end if

on appIsRunning(appName)

 

          tell application "System Events"

 

                    set res to (name of every process) contains appName

                    return res

 

          end tell

 

end appIsRunning

on writelog(stringToLog)

 

          set logFilePath to docPath & "com.cp.photoshopresetprefs.log" as string

 

          try

  -- Check the file & path exists and are reachable by assigning an alias

                    set theLogFile to alias logFilePath

 

          on error

 

  -- Likely that the file doesn't exist yet, try touching it and re-assigning the alias

                    do shell script "touch " & quoted form of POSIX path of logFilePath

                    set theLogFile to alias logFilePath

 

          end try

 

  -- Make sure another app is not already holding a write-lock on the file by closing it first

          try

 

                    set logfileRef to open for access theLogFile with write permission

 

          on error errmsg number errnum

 

                    if errnum = -49 then

 

  -- close the file

  close access theLogFile

  -- Try to open it again

                              set logfileRef to open for access theLogFile with write permission

 

                    end if

 

          end try

 

          set endOf to (get eof logfileRef)

          set logString to (current date) & tab & stringToLog & return & return as string

  write logString to logfileRef starting at (endOf)

 

  close access logfileRef

 

end writelog

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Mar 22, 2012

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The Penquin of Doom wrote:

"We have been running now for some time with Photoshop's thumbnail

creation prefs switched off as below....we never see the .afpDeleted

error."

Unfortunately, this workaround did not change the outcome for me.  Here

are additional details which seem to contribute:

In my workflow, I always open images from Lightroom (3.6) and all my

images are on a server.  Launching Photoshop 5 this way will always give

me the error and delete my file.  I just did some experiments and I do NOT

get the error if I do either of two things...Either don't use the server,

or open files within photoshop using "file>open".  I think the second

option will be an easier road for me to take. 

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Mar 22, 2012

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>> would also seem to be fairly conclusive proof that Photoshop is doing something wrong.

Or you found a way to avoid some of the problematic OS file system calls (mostly relating to resource forks).

Apple is investigating why their APIs fail on some file servers, while we have been working on ways to avoid the problems with the OS file APIs and do a better job of catching non-obvious errors from the file APIs.  Photoshop CS6 includes our latest efforts, while we're still waiting for Apple.

>> We also found another that for some reason Photoshop decides occasionally to quietly reset these settings.

That should only be possible if the application preferences get reset.

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Mar 23, 2012

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Hi

For info, my company is primarily PC based with a small percentage of Mac and PC designers to support the rest of the business.

We have a mix of different age Macs, iMacs and MacBooks all running either 10.6 or 10.7 with CS5.

The network share is a NetApp vFiler system and we connect using SMB to ensure the Macs and PC's can connect.

We have no specialised software either on the vFiler or Macs to handle the Macs.

We are experiencing the 'access not granted' issue while trying to save photoshop files and after finding this thread (as someone said it's a goldmine for google search results) I decided I would post my thoughts so here goes:

I agree with Chris that this isn't an Adobe bug as such . We've been running 10.6.8 with CS5 for a while now and had no issues, since upgrading a few machines to 10.7 though the save issue is occuring - that suggests to me that the software isn't causing the issue, but the OS is.

The people running 10.7 are now opening the file, saving locally and copying back to the server.

I've tried making sure that the save preview setting and finder preview panes are turned off, but this hasn't helped.

Thankfully we don't seem to be losing files - I assume this is because Photoshop is bringing up the error message.

We are also running the PC version of CS5 and these users aren't having any such issues saving to the same server - Now I know this thread is about the Mac version of Photoshop, but I'm sure Adobe don't re-invent the wheel when writing their software so even though the language may be different (?) the processes will be the same - again to me this points to an OS issue.

However I do think that Adobe need to work more closely and push Apple harder to get this resolved because the length of time this has been going on simply isn't good enough and as Chris pointed out, "customers don't have visibility into Apple's bug system"

I believe this needs to be Adobe because should we as end users report this to Apple, they'll no doubt tell us this is an Adobe issue.

Until this issue is resolved though, I still don't understand why Photoshop can't be changed to use the same save mechanism as Illustrator, even as an option we can set. We don't have any issues saving Illustrator files and my users would report if they had lost data - believe me. I know that you want to perform your safe save, but it doesn't seem to be working for a good number of people out there and these people are your bread and butter.

Additionally for Chris

Has anyone tested to see if this is just the OS API taking longer to report a successful save and PS timing out? Just a thought.

You keep telling us that you can't replicate these issues in house, would you be able to let us know what your in house setup is? Someone out there may be able to replicate it and run some further testing.

I'm actually supposed to be upgrading our Macs to Lion this weekend. If this goes ahead I know will get some stick over this issue and saying that it's a problem with Adobe and Apple isn't going to appease my users, or their managers.

I am running tests today to see if 10.7.2 works and if so then we'll roll this out instead of 10.7.3 but I am not hopeful.

The other test I am going to try is installing a demo of DAVE and seeing if this makes any difference to the process.

I'll let you know how this goes.

Matt

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Mar 23, 2012

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I can say that we are working as closely with Apple as Apple will let us work on these issues.

Meanwhile we are actively investigating workarounds to avoid the problem.

We can't use the unsafe mechanisms of other apps.

But we can improve the situation, and think we have in CS6.

>> Has anyone tested to see if this is just the OS API taking longer to report a successful save and PS timing out? Just a thought.

We're pretty confident that it is not a timeout, but a failure to move or copy files as the APIs are supposed to.

In house setup: those change day to day, we have hundreds of machines just on this floor, of all varieties. We've tried every combination we can think of.  Somewhere, there is some triggering factor that just isn't obivious.

And you really want 10.7.3 - Apple fixed a LOT of bugs in the latest dot.

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Mar 28, 2012

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I've been watching and reading this thread closely for a few months now. We have a small in home business and turned an older Core Duo 2 iMac into a file server running Snow Leopard Server. That's when we ran into the .afpdeleted and write access not granted errors.

This even after having Apple help us set up a share point (they recommend never sharing the drive itself) and making sure the users have full read/write access to that share point. Didn't matter. Still got access errors (didn't have permission to write a file) and .afpdeleted errors. Which made zero sense since Photoshop would throw out either error on a file you've saved with Command+S a few times already with no issue, then all of the sudden you don't have permission to save the same file you've had open all along.

With either issue (.afpdeleted or no permission), the file gets deleted off the server (REALLY stupid!) and you have to remember to save it again immediately.

Running Photoshop configured this way, we never see the .afpDeleted error. This is a good workaround, and would also seem to be fairly conclusive proof that Photoshop is doing something wrong.

The fault could also be Snow Leopard Server, with QuickTime at the server failing to generate a preview, which in turn causes a file creation error.

May I make an observation, but requiring a major update to squash these bugs is a bit harsh.

Not harsh at all, in my opinion. That seems to be Apple's MO lately. They find the problem, but rather than fixing the issue in the current OS, they force you to upgrade to get the fix.

And you really want 10.7.3 - Apple fixed a LOT of bugs in the latest dot.

Not sure if Chris meant the client OS, or the server. Either way, my whole reason for this post is to note that we upgraded the server to Lion 10.7.3. The default came up as a stand alone server rather than open directory. I thought, heck, I'll just try it that first. I set up our share point and assigned our only two users (both on Mac Pros running Snow Leopard 10.6.8) full read/write access.

Now, it's only been up for a week so far, but we haven't seen a single .afpdeleted or no permission error since. It's also a very simple setup for a small business that may not be a feasible fix for a larger company. Who knows, it may have also worked to change SL Server to stand alone rather than open directory. But I'm not going to restore SL Server just to check that. I'll give it at least a couple of more weeks and report on if the problem seems to really be gone.

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Mar 28, 2012

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Kurt,

My problem is that I don't have the flexability of going to server 10.7.3.  We are running Windows 2008 with Extremez-IP and my clients are all running 10.6.8 except for two or three macbook airs that were purchased and couldn't be downgraded.

As a larger comapny, I have to evaluate how each OS update is going to affect our workflow, and the loss of Save As in Lion, along with how apple is handing the versioning, gives me pause and I have to see how it interacts with our server and software.

I tend to be about 1 major version of Mac OS behind Apple due to the fact that rolling out a new OS in a company enviornment isn't the simple idealistic thing that Apple believes it is.  Point in fact is that Canon Inc. has finally released drivers for 10.7 for the Canon T1 Rips.  These drivers are so primitive that they don't even have the ability to access the finishing attachments for the printers, so those of my users that are on 10.7 can't collate or staple.

Right now I am between a rock and freaking hard place, I can't update the OS because my drivers don't work, AND with 10.6.8 and Photoshop I get the deleted file bug that this thread is about. 

BTW.. wanna know something more crazy???!!  Only in Photoshop... get this... at some point when someone is working in a file, they do something, and the file is deleted and kicked out to my server, into my Diskkeeper Undelete folder (this piece of software has been my saving grace for years) the users can still get to the file via the "Open Recent"  Drives me up the wall....

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Mar 28, 2012

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My problem is that I don't have the flexibility of going to server 10.7.3.  We are running Windows 2008 with Extremez-IP...

Oh, no doubt Lion Server is not feasible for all situations. In Apple's usual mode of simplifying their software, they made Lion Server too simple. Which is why I noted: "It's also a very simple setup for a small business that may not be a feasible fix for a larger company." Lots of IT folks have been complaining about the loss of Extremez-IP support and other functions. LS works for me because our need is very simple. We run file sharing and the firewall, nothing else.

As a larger company, I have to evaluate how each OS update is going to affect our workflow, and the loss of Save As in Lion, along with how apple is handing the versioning, gives me pause and I have to see how it interacts with our server and software.

I do that here, also. I'm a rather long time member at Apple's forums, and it's almost comical. Every time a major version of OS X comes out, people are screaming that xxxx stopped working. They use their Mac for their business, and how are they supposed to get work done? Invariably, someone states the obvious. "Uh, you use your Mac for a living, and you jump on a point zero release of an OS without testing it, or have a backup you can restore to get back to your previous state?"

And don't even get me started on the insanity of Versions/Autosave/Duplicate. Absolutely the worst idea I have ever seen for a work OS. My Mac is NOT a gigantic iPad. I will save my data when I want to! Fortunately, so far, only Apple's own apps force the user to use the new paradigm. An app has to be written to use the new functions. And even then, it can be turned off with simple preferences. Note Open Office and Graphic Converter for examples. Why Apple chose not to make this an app by app, or global option defies logic.

Note to Chris Cox: Please, please, pleeeeaaase don't ever release Adobe's software without a way to disable this nonsense.

Right now I am between a rock and freaking hard place, I can't update the OS because my drivers don't work, AND with 10.6.8 and Photoshop I get the deleted file bug that this thread is about.

Yup. I thought my post may be helpful as I am still running 10.6.8 on both Mac Pros with CS 5.5. Only the server was upgraded to Lion and so far (knock on wood), the issue seems to have been solved.

Another one of those forced upgrade fixes is with fonts. I didn't even start using Snow Leopard on a day to day basis until 10.6.3, when they finally had most of the font bugs fixed. And they were awful! 10.6.4 really cleaned up all but one issue. And that was certain fonts with characters that didn't contain outlines, but instead referenced other characters within the font for their shapes. These fonts would show no character for those positions. The same fonts worked in Leopard and earlier, but Apple had to completely rewrite the font engine for Snow Leopard to make it 64 bit. So what happens? Apple finds the problem and fixes it in Lion. Do they apply the same fix to SL, even though they know what it is? NO!

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May 01, 2012

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I tried CS6 Beta and the issue is resolved.  No longer getting the "could not save because write access was not granted" error.

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May 01, 2012

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Not resolved - it still happpens sometimes due to external factors, but we tried a couple of strategies to minimize it.

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May 06, 2012

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So from what I can read above, I can not use my copy of Photoshop 5 on my iMac since I cannot find a way to save any changes I make.  Is that correct?  Which means I have wasted hundreds of dollars in buying Photoshop 5 for my iMac.  So unless I am going to switch to a PC, I should not buy Adobe Photoshop for the Mac.  Will you exchange my Mac copy for a PC copy of Photoshop 5 Extended?  Seems silly but that seems to be the only option unless I want to have all the money invested just going to waste.  I am serious about exchanging the product for a PC version.  Can I do that?  Thanks.

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May 07, 2012

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carlsbadphotographer wrote:

So from what I can read above, I can not use my copy of Photoshop 5 on my iMac since I cannot find a way to save any changes I make.  Is that correct?

No. That is not correct. The issue discussed above relates to saving to a network. You can still save files to your iMac.

If you want to move to Windows, you can contact Adobe Customer Service and ask for a 'crossgrade'.

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May 07, 2012

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May 07, 2012

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I am working on an individual iMac in my apartment.  My photos were on an external drive.  CS5 would not allow me to save the changes I made to the photos as discussed in this thread.  I copied photos to the desktop and then made changes and was able to save the changes to the desktop.  Why will CS5 not let me save directly to the hard drive where the photo originated, when that is where it opened the file from?  Thanks.

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May 07, 2012

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Is it just a normal Firewire or USB drive -- not connected by ethernet nor by wireless but only using a Firewire or USB cable?

If you are not using ethernet or wireless, are the permissions OK? -- do you have write permissions for the file on external?

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May 07, 2012

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That sounds more like you just had a real permissions problem - not a mystery problem.

You can give yourself read/write permission on the drive, or ignore all permissions on the external drive.

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May 07, 2012

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The drive is USB and connected by a cable.  Where do I look for the permissions for ethernet or wireless and for permission to write for the file on the external? 

Thanks.

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May 07, 2012

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Click on the file on the external drive to select it and choose "get info" from the file menu, look under sharing and permissions (click little triangle to show sharing an permissions if needed) then make sure that YOU have read and write permission.

You should be able to click on the items in the Privelge column to select read & write for yourself. If it says you don't have permission to change the setting, then you may need to log in as an admin using an admin account (assuming You are not an admin).

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May 08, 2012

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USB and Ethernet have nothing to do with each other.

If you normally work off the external USB drive, and have no real reason to have permissions on it, do this:

Highlight the drive's icon on your desktop and press Command+I (Get Info). You will get this dialogue box:

Screen shot 2012-05-08 at 7.20.01 AM.png

Click the lock on the lower right. This will cause your admin password dialogue box to open. Enter your admin name and password. This will unlock the settings. Then you can put a check mark on the box at the bottom next to Ignore ownership on this volume. Close the Get Info box.

With no restrictions, you will never see another message about permissions on that drive.

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May 08, 2012

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You should also check the format of the external drive. Unless you install MacFuse, Mac OS cannot write to NTFS drives. You can only access NTFS as read-only with a plain installation of OS X.

Have you ever been able to write to this external drive?

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May 16, 2012

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"Adobe specifically does not support saving over the network. Adobe has a product called Version Cue specifically for managing shared files and file versioning."

This has been our mantra to all of our Adobe CS customers. If you work directly off the server otherwise, this stuff will happen.

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Jun 01, 2012

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First of all, I personally would like to thank Chris for his continual patience with this topic.  Over the years, across different version and file servers (all of our servers are nfs automounts), we have intermittently seen file corruption and we all know how frustrating this can be, I believe Chris is as frustrated as us and putting this issue to bed would be fantastic for all.  As Chris suggests this is an OS bug, I can understand how it can be incredible hard to work around this with an effective solution for a software provider.  I would suggest that maybe the best solution would be a good check-in/check-out system inside of Photoshop and I'm not talking about one that file locks, this just unnecessarily complicates the situtation.

What I'm suggesting is PS having the ability to save the files locally for you and all subsequent file use and saving is handled locally.  At some point, inside PS, you may choose to resubmit (copy the files back) to the server, keeping the local copies.  So we no longer are working with a temporary local copies that are deleted immediately after a save, but actual visible copies.  Preferences could allow for where to save the files and maybe even how long to keep these copies for.  A failed submission back to server wouldn no longer matter; the user still has their local copy, untouched.  The check-in/out system will track where files were opened and default to resubmit back to the same location.

With little effort, I can add another drive inside a Mac Pro to allow for multiple local copies with a retention period, but I can't repair a corrupt file.

We try to persuade our user base to manually do this process, but often the files wont get saved back for a day or two or they may ignore the advice as they want to make sure that the saved versions are always on the server and so work directly from the server.  With a simple resubmission window, I could see our users regularly saving files back to servers and having a much happier experience overall, with minimal risk.

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Jun 01, 2012

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From what I've read, Photoshop CS6 has auto-recovery, so it does save a local copy of the file as backup, no?

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May 24, 2012

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Provlem solved for us today if anyone is still looking.

We had the same issue working on an iMac connected to a Windows file server. The issue was magically fixed when I joined the iMac to the windows domain. It would appear that photoshop is opening the file using the local user permissions as opposed to the remote user permissions used to connect to the server. When the file is saved, photoshop deletes the file, as stated above, but then can't write the new file to the server as the local permissions do not have permission to write to the server.

I don't know if this is the same issue on xserve, but I am guessing that the core of the problem is the same.

Good Luck

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 24, 2012

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You can move your Preferences window down on your computer by using the keyboard:

Alt-Space -> M ( -> down-arrow multiple times) -> Enter

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Jul 10, 2012

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Ok, I can 100% reproduce the problem

Here's the pattern I've found:

1. We have a network share in our studio using AFP protocol

2. A coworker creates a photoshop file

3. I then either open - or copy then open - that file.

4. If i then save the file again from Photoshop, I get the dreaded

Could not save “blablabla.psd” because write access was not granted.

and the original file is gone from the filesystem.

5. but only if that file's preview is currently displayed in my Finder's window.

If I click away from the file so that the preview is not visible then it works fine, or if I use a different finder view that doesn't have previews, like the List view, then it is also fine. As soon as I switch back to having the file's preview visible then it happens again.

Additional notes:

* If I manage to go past the step 4 and save successfully (by clicking away from the preview or using a different view), then I can switch back to the preview mode again and no further problem occurs.

* There is no issues if I'm editing one of my own files

So Adobe, is there anything else I can do to help (logs, tracing or what-not) since I can reproduce it at will?

Configuration is:

* Photoshop CS 5 12.1 (has been reported by others with 5.5)

* Lion Client 10.7.3

* Lion Server 10.7.4

* AFP Share with working ACL layer on top (User based permissions, full control)

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Jul 10, 2012

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That particular problem we think we have a handle on (or at least have documented the bug well enough that Apple should be able to fix it).

We tried some work arounds for it in CS6 (to avoid deleting files and recover more gracefully).

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Jul 10, 2012

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Ahh, thanks Chris. Hadn't realised it was covered (so much noise around it).

Is Apple giving any ETA?

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Jul 10, 2012

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We can't talk about Apple's bug status too much.

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Jul 10, 2012

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Right-o.

Thanks for the update

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Jul 11, 2012

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yet another ben,

There a couple things you can do to get some data on what is happening:

1. Run fs_usage to get the file system calls as they are happening

Run it from the Terminal when you are done with the operation Ctrl-C will stop output

This first one might be a bit noisy but will get everything (-w is for Wide so nothing is truncated)

sudo fs_usage -w -f filesys

This one will only spit out lines containing Phtoshop (case insensitive) but who knows might miss some other interaction with Finder:

sudo fs_usage -w -f filesys | grep -i Photoshop

It'd be best if you can quit all other apps so the file system calls are only from Finder and Photoshop

2. You could also try Activity Monitor in Applications/Utilities, find Photoshop in the process list, double click to get info on the process, there is a Sample button that will do a call graph of all function calls by Photoshop for about 10 seconds after you press it, click it then quickly do the save operation. The data might be interesting to see here, however will probably be quite lengthy so a zip of the files is probably better than a long post

3. Once you have this data, and you done a great job with steps to repeat is file this bug as quickly as possible with Apple and then try and get as many other people to file it, start a campaign!

To file a bug report with Apple you register as a developer (free), here's all the info:

https://developer.apple.com/support/resources/bug-reporting.html

ALSO post the same bug report at Open Radar, this has the affect of getting it noticed and others can also light a fire under Apple to fix it:

http://openradar.appspot.com

Apple's Bug Reporter is sort of a "black hole" in that you can't see if there are similar bugs that have been filed, and they don't always give you feedback, sometimes a "Duplicate Bug" or asking for more info, so that's why Adobe can't comment, because they probably don't have any info on the status of the bug either (although techinically a bug report is under NDA). Apple always contends that its the volume of reports that matter and that will get its attention. 10.7.5 will probably be the last 10.7 release and it's in its 2nd beta so this really is the last hope of getting it fixed in 10.7! Otherwise if they do fix it, it will be in 10.8, just as Adobe has perhaps fixed it, but only for CS6 (not CS 5.5), so if you want it fixed without requiring an update of either OS or CS, file that bug and publicize it. I found a nasty Finder ACL duplication bug and was actually able to get it fixed in 10.6.8, even though it was fixed in 10.7, because I made a stink in my blog, had others mention it in theirs, filed a bug with Apple and open radar as well, so it can be done! Hope you can do the same! Good luck!

Joel Bruner

aka brunerd

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Jul 11, 2012

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All  solutions, theories or speculations about a fix are a complete waste of time. I do find it entertaining to read some of them, but a total waste of effort on everyone's part. There is no .plist file to delete or preference to tweak. This is an Adobe problem with how Photoshop opens files from a network drive and a problem that came with the latest Creative Suite 5.5 version. I have been using Photoshop for 20 years and have been working directly from an Apple server over a network for the last 10, and NEVER had a problem until I upgraded to Creative Suite 5.5.

Everyone should do themselves a favor and stop trying to come up with a fix. It's Adobe's problem, not Apple's. Apple may have changed the way it communicates from a Mac to a Server but Adobe must adapt to it. Adobe knows that the bulk of Photoshop users are on a Mac, so they need to get over themselves and fix their product.

For those just checking in, here is a horribly un-technical explanation of the problem and a work-around.

Photoshop opens a file into your RAM. The file that is left behind is an empty shell with all but a few bits of data left in it, one of them being the file size and modification stamp. When you or another network user clicks a file, especially in column view, Apple's OS generates a preview. This preview changes the resource data of the empty file that Photoshop leaves behind, and when you attempt to save the file, Photoshop freaks out and provides you with the error and ultimately nukes said empty file from the server, leaving only the RAM version. You can hit save again and re-save the file, but sometimes that isn't done and the file is lost.

The solution, TURN OFF THE PREVIEW COLUMN. By turning off Apple's ability to generate a preview, you are effectively solving the problem. Yes, I admit it's annoying and somewhat difficult to work with, but that's the way it has to be for now. To turn off the preview, go to 'Show View Options' under the 'View' menu and uncheck the 'Show Preview Column' check box. This will disable the preview for the file when in column view, thus preventing other network users or even yourself from creating a preview of an open Photoshop file.

This solution has eliminated all errors for my  company, as it's pretty rare to have two people attempt to preview or open the same Photoshop file, so for us, this issue is resolved until Adobe fixes the issue for real.

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Jul 11, 2012

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garymason wrote:


Photoshop opens a file into your RAM. The file that is left behind is an empty shell with all but a few bits of data left in it,

That is absolutely incorrect.

-Noel

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Jul 11, 2012

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Noel Carboni wrote:

garymason wrote:


Photoshop opens a file into your RAM. The file that is left behind is an empty shell with all but a few bits of data left in it,

That is absolutely incorrect.

-Noel

I did say that this was horribly un-technical. I'm a designer, not a software engineer.

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Jul 11, 2012

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No worries, but oversimplifying something to the point where it's actually wrong doesn't really help even non-technical people.

I don't claim to understand the Apple bug that causes this problem, but I do know that just opening a file in Photoshop does NOTHING to the original file, even though the file contents are loaded into a document in RAM.

-Noel

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Jul 11, 2012

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Gary - one person had a problem related to the open/save dialog and possibly the plist file, hence the discussion a few days ago.

Others have problems related to Finder and other processes holding onto the files.

And others still seem to run into the MacOS file system bug when saving to file servers without other obvious processes accessing the files.

None of these are Photoshop bugs.

Adobe can work around Apple's bugs sometimes, but Apple is responsible for fixing Apple's bugs.

Many times, Apple's bugs are in low level parts of the OS that cannot be worked around.

>> Photoshop opens a file into your RAM...

That entire paragraph is incorrect. Really, really, seriously incorrect.

Photoshop just reads the file, and does not modify it in any way when reading it. Your file is only modified when writing over the file, and that is the time when the OS file system bug causes problems on file servers.  Photoshop CS6 tries to work around this and make sure that your original file remains intact despite the file system errors (which we can't entirely avoid).

>> The solution, TURN OFF THE PREVIEW COLUMN.

No, that is incorrect.

That will reduce the occurrance, but not solve the underlying file system problem.

Other users can be browsing the folder, the OS can be generating thumbnails or metadata, or other system activity can still trigger the file system problem.

>> the bulk of Photoshop users are on a Mac,

That is also quite incorrect.

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Jul 11, 2012

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I can verify that turning off desktop previews is not the issue. It doesn't matter if you're in icon, list or column view. Turning desktop previews on or off has no effect on how frequently the permissions or .afpdeleted errors occur. They remain pretty much the same.

I did try out the idea that maybe a space in the server name (the share point name) was possibly an issue. I changed the name of the share point from Server Files to ServerFiles. Believe it or not, just doing this has drastically cut down how often we see either of these errors. So far, only once since changing the name, whereas it used to happen at least a dozen times a day.

This using Lion Server, 10.7.4. Can't check to see if is has any effect on Snow Leopard Server.

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Jul 11, 2012

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I have the previews turned off and have for over 3 months, and I haven't had this issue since. It may not be the ultimate cause of the issue, but it does prevent me from getting the error and potentially losing files.

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