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Photoshop CC / Windows 8.1 HiDPI / Retina scaling support

Explorer ,
Oct 28, 2013

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Hi,  I am currently running the latest CC apps on a Windows 7 machine and am currently looking to upgrade my PC hardware, I have my eye on either the new Dell XPS15 with Haswell CPU/HiDPI screen (3200x1800 resolution) or the equivalent new Dell Precision m3800 when available in November with identical specs.  After testing a number Windows 8/8.1 systems over the last few days with Photoshop CC (14.1.2) It appears that Adobe has still yet to implement retina style UI scaling for any of it's CC apps for the Windows platform. They all seem to default to a predefined pixel font size. Potentially making Photoshop and other apps unusable on a 3200x1800 15.6" laptop screen if they do not scale like their Mac counterparts.  Can anyone confirm or elaborate on whether this feature exists for Adobe products on Windows yet, if it ever will or when it will become available in the near future?  Thanks

Again, we're continuing to work with Microsoft on the scaling problems in Windows.

We, and they, recognize that the existing attempts to offer scalable UI have serious issues.

And no, we can't commit to a timeframe for a long list of reasons.

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Photoshop CC / Windows 8.1 HiDPI / Retina scaling support

Explorer ,
Oct 28, 2013

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Hi,  I am currently running the latest CC apps on a Windows 7 machine and am currently looking to upgrade my PC hardware, I have my eye on either the new Dell XPS15 with Haswell CPU/HiDPI screen (3200x1800 resolution) or the equivalent new Dell Precision m3800 when available in November with identical specs.  After testing a number Windows 8/8.1 systems over the last few days with Photoshop CC (14.1.2) It appears that Adobe has still yet to implement retina style UI scaling for any of it's CC apps for the Windows platform. They all seem to default to a predefined pixel font size. Potentially making Photoshop and other apps unusable on a 3200x1800 15.6" laptop screen if they do not scale like their Mac counterparts.  Can anyone confirm or elaborate on whether this feature exists for Adobe products on Windows yet, if it ever will or when it will become available in the near future?  Thanks

Again, we're continuing to work with Microsoft on the scaling problems in Windows.

We, and they, recognize that the existing attempts to offer scalable UI have serious issues.

And no, we can't commit to a timeframe for a long list of reasons.

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Oct 28, 2013

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Windows doesn't have Retina style scaling APIs yet, and has some problems in the existing attempt at scaling UIs.

We are continuing to work with Microsoft on the scaling problems, but don't have a solution for Windows yet.

Photoshop does have UI font scaling, but no way to scale the icons and other UI elements on Windows at this time.

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Explorer ,
Oct 28, 2013

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Very disappointing news, I thought Windows 8.1 was supposed to bring a whole host new features to support retina styling UI scaling:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/26/4465442/windows-8-1-will-finally-add-retina-display-support

Plenty of other non-Microsoft applications seem to scale reasonably well without any recompiling, feels like favouritism towards Macs

Can future revisions of Adobe products not take advantage of these updates in Win 8.1, is Adobe bothered about supporting HiDPI on Windows 8+ ?

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Oct 28, 2013

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Microsoft is getting closer, but isn't there just yet.

Again, we are continuing to work with Microsoft to address the scaling issues on Windows.

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Explorer ,
Oct 29, 2013

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Can you give any more information on the scale or rough timetable for releasing something to fix this problem.  Do we need to wait for a Windows 8.2 release in Oct 2014, or is it more around opening up API's in things like Visual Studio WPF to allow better HiDPI support, i.e. will we need to wait 12-18 months for Win 8.2 or 2-3 months for development framework API fix???

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Oct 29, 2013

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I've already said all I can say.

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Explorer ,
Oct 30, 2013

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That's really sad. I got a new laptop specifically for Adobe CC, thinking that if any company would do HiDPI support right, certainly it's gotta be Adobe. The CC suite is 75% of the reason I wanted a HiDPI display to begin with, but you can't even give us any sort of ETA except someday, maybe, if we're lucky?

How come MS Office, Firefox, Chrome, can do it but Adobe with its vast resources can't even give a timeframe? You already have all the high-res assets from the OSX/Retina side, no?

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Oct 30, 2013

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Again, we're continuing to work with Microsoft on the scaling problems in Windows.

We, and they, recognize that the existing attempts to offer scalable UI have serious issues.

And no, we can't commit to a timeframe for a long list of reasons.

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New Here ,
Nov 13, 2013

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Hi Chris,

I'm very interested in an ETA on this. Even it's just 'this quarter'.

I pay for Photoshop CC as part of my CC subscription, and this is a necassary fix for me to be abe to operate as I need to when on te go.

I understand that Microsoft may not have provided the documentaion early enough for you to finish the work, but Windows 8.1 is out now, and this is a real issue that's affecting customers in non-beta environments.

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Mentor ,
Nov 13, 2013

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It's indeed a bit ridiculous in this day and age that professional software cannot deal properly with higher ppi screens. Adobe sofware is not the only culprit out there.

Blender 3D comes with a custom ppi screen setting in its preferences, and allows the user to adjust the overall GUI size interactively. And that is open source software!

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New Here ,
Nov 14, 2013

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I hope this is resolved sooner then later and I am just adding my feedback as the more complain the faster things will happen...

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 15, 2013

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I posted information about how to use an external monitor earlier.

Here is my solution for both the Dell XPS 15 Touch display and the external monitor, until Adobe and Microsoft resolve this issue.

Dell XPS 15 Touch display:

     Search and launch the Control Panel then select Display

     Select "Adjust resolution" and lower the resolution to half the native resolution of the display:  1600 x 900

     Go up one level and set scaling at 100% (this screen will look huge until you perform this action)

     You will have to log out and in again.

All Adobe, Autodesk and Microsoft products display perfectly.

You may get an "Optimal Resolution Warning" when you launch certain applications. To keep this from happening, simply check the box for "Do No Show Again".

Hopefully, Adobe and Microsoft will resolve this issue soon and then we can go back to the native resolution of the laptop display.

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New Here ,
Dec 15, 2013

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I have the dell m3800 but when i set the resolution to 1600x900 the screen is all blurry, does anybody else have this problem? Illustrator cs 5 is scaled btw so i used it, draw a 45° line turned off antialias artwork and took macro-screenshot:

bluriness.png

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Explorer ,
Dec 15, 2013

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The display is blurry because you're using your screen at a non-native resolution and it's just doubling the pixels without adding more visual information. It's like upsampling in Photoshop with a non-smoothing algorithm. Even with a better algorithm some amount of blurring is unavoiable because you're telling the computer to use half the resolution, blown up 2x, to cover your entire screen.

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Explorer ,
Dec 16, 2013

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I wanted to follow up on my opening post and Chris' subsequent follow ups.

It appears we are no further forward with finding a resolution and our feeling of being second class customers to Adobe's Apple users What does seem incredible is the fragmented nature of Adobe's code base across it's product line with some current applications supporting true HiDPI scaling out of the box, others don't, while older versions of non supporting applications previously up-scaled (blurry) but now don't even do that.

What I can't understand is why HiDPI support on Windows seems to have taken Adobe by surprise, did they not realise it was imminent when Apple introduced Retina displays?

I would also like to return to Chris' comment back on the 28th Oct regarding the lack of retina style scaling API's in Windows. Windows 8.1 at least has such an API available with support through MS Visual Studio 2013:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/br226166

http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowsapps/Scaling-sample-cf072f4f

However something tells me that Adobe doesn't use MSVS to take advantage of this API.

So my laptop upgrade is on hold indefinately until this is resolved or we at least get the common courtesy from Adobe to inform it's Windows based Creative Cloud subscribers when such an important feature is to be supported.

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 16, 2013

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I can only hope that there is actually somebody working on this rather than spending all our hard earned on minor camera release updates...

I wonder if we can have a class action for the eyesight issues caused by straining to see tiny icons

Hint:  Even a comment on this thread with progress would be nice!!

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New Here ,
Dec 16, 2013

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Dont be unfair. There was this after effects CS6 Update which fixed an issue with the spanish version.

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 17, 2013

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I concur with what has been said, it is a disgrace on the part of Adobe to invest so little for such a pressing matter.

Many applications scale very well with Windows 8.1, including a few of Adobe.

In addition, not having vector UI elements that scale is so 1990 and highly distasteful from the market leader in vector tools.

It simply shows how many years Adobe has been living on super fat upgrade prices for very little additional features and next to no in-depth improvements.

My experience with the new Dell XPS 15 3200x1800, which is truly an outstanding laptop in its own right, for CS6 work:

don't bother for Illustrator, after effects, premiere.

It isn't optimal for Photoshop but I personnally use much less dialogbox based addons.

Knowing all keyboard shortcuts becomes almost mandatory.

InDesign scales perfectly, as well as Lightroom 5.2

So my advice is to pressure Adobe into giving a timetable of when the situation will be resolved and plan purchasing a laptop at this time.

My advice for Adobe would be to start taking the Indesign/Lightroom team to teach the old guard how things are done.

If you want to buy a laptop with super high resolution now, and again many applications work very well as is under Windows 8.1, be prepared to work with a non super high resolution external monitor for Adobe work. If you don't like this solution I recommend postponing the laptop purchase, as you would be disappointed for what are in effet amazing laptops. Or purchase them with a 1920x1080 resolution and with the sparred money buy a high res external monitor when the time comes.

Update

There is a potential mitigating workaround, but you'll have to test it to see if it's for you or not.

Use the Windows magnifier ( 'Windows Key' + 'plus key') to zoom in, set it on magnifying glass mode (not full screen mode) in the drop down or with ctrl-alt-L

Optionally, you may want to adjust the size of the zoomed window to taste with ctrl-alt-R, then move the mouse to resize and click to set. I find that a wide rectange works well fo rme.

When not needed any more either use Windows key + minus key to zoom out or press Windows + Esc to close the Windows magnifier.

Note that Windows+ minus doesn't work on my laptop, it works only with the minus of the numeric keypad. But Win + Esc is a working alternative.

I find the magnifier of tremendous help with Adobe's tiny ui elements.

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New Here ,
Dec 28, 2013

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Just wanted to also add my voice to the chorus - is there any reason we cant allow the fonts on the tool bar to be larger?

Even if the icons are still too small this would at least make the app a little more usable - seems like a quick fix - there's already a setting for font size in the preferences - it just doesn't go big enough.

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New Here ,
Feb 23, 2014

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It's been at least 2 MORE months since this "Answer" was supplied. This issue needs to be addressed.

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New Here ,
Feb 26, 2014

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Just read most of this thread and man there are some whiny bitches out there.

Photoshop is NOT "unusable".  It just sucks to use it at such hi-res, so whining about compensation is just retarded.

Keep at it Adobe.  Those Microsloth bastards will get it right eventually.

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Explorer ,
Feb 27, 2014

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Keep at it Adobe.  Those Microsloth bastards will get it right eventually.

Oddly, feature pages for programs like InCopy and Illustrator explicity say "HiDPI Support". I guess "Micro$lofh", seeing how popular widely used well known programs like InCopy, they "got it right" and worked on InCopy support day and night.

Uh huh.

So "Micro$slofh" built scaling support for InCopy and not Photoshop huh?

That sounds right to you Jazz, doesn't it? Yep, just like "Mac is secure" does too, as long as you overlook total FAILS like the most recent ssl bug.

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New Here ,
Feb 27, 2014

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You sound like you have no idea how anything works.  As a developer, I know exactly what the problem is and it's not so simple to fix.  I'm surprised anyone is able to get any apps as big as Photoshop working under Windows.  The Windows API is such a ball-ache to develop for.

My advice to anyone who wants to whine about this $hit is go and learn C/C++, then take a crack at the Windows API, and then come back and tell us your thoughts here and maybe people like me won't think you're a bloody idiot.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 27, 2014

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I've developed graphics apps that size their controls to the configured Desktop size.  It's doable, but it takes some backflips.  Adobe just has a much larger task of it, because - as Jazz13_au says - it's a BIG application.  They'll get it done.

-Noel

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Explorer ,
Feb 28, 2014

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I'm surprised anyone is able to get any apps as big as Photoshop working under Windows.  The Windows API is such a ball-ache to develop for.

Man, there are some whiny ******* out there. Myself, I am a developer going on 15 years, son.

Adobe, Jazz and I are perplexed why you've assigned amatuer programmers to fix the UI problem with your flagship program. And as Jazz has pointed out, Photoshop DOES work - you're not rebuilding the application from ground up - all the effects have worked on any resolution, any monitor size, and at any zoom level, so we're ONLY talking about UI - the controls and menus.

So can you please grab your more competent developers assigned to InDesign and Illustrator, or hire some from any number companies currently making software for Windows that runs fine on HiDPI?

Your apologists out there want me to cry a tear for you because your company has only been writing Photoshop for Windows for 22 years, and, you know, you apparently have not made any headway because, well, golly, "it's hard and tough and stuff".

Pull up your panties Adobe.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 28, 2014

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gishnetwork wrote:

you're not rebuilding the application from ground up - all the effects have worked on any resolution, any monitor size, and at any zoom level, so we're ONLY talking about UI - the controls and menus.

Did you consider things as 1 pixel wide marquees?  Pen tool lines?  Overlays for Crop or Transform, etc.?  Patterns?  It may be "ONLY the UI" but it's turned out to be more complex than you think.  Plus even for really basic stuff, like scrollbars, Microsoft hasn't made it easy to do such simple things as use your own color and theme.

Precisely because Adobe's flagship software is old does it have dependencies on pixel size, how controls work pixel for pixel, etc.  That's how early Macintosh programs were written, back when graphics was an amazing new thing.  Back when there weren't such things as GPUs.

By the way, I've got 20 more years as a software engineer than you do as a developer. If you feel the need for continued disrespect, perhaps you should just roll out your own fully featured graphics editor program and eat Adobe's lunch.  Someone's saying it's easy to do.

-Noel

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New Here ,
Mar 04, 2014

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It's a lot of work, but Microsoft took the time to go through all the new API hooks in Windows 8.1 that allow for per-monitor DPI scaling. I'm curious what API hooks Adobe feels they're still missing as they seem to have pretty comprehensive support for how DPI changes are calculated and passed to the applicaiton. Take a look: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/4-184

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Mar 05, 2014

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Again, we are still working with Microsoft on these issues - which also means they're still covered by NDA.

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New Here ,
Nov 30, 2013

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Just adding my voice as someone who wants UI scaling more than new filters or other goodies. As you work with Microsoft on this, it would be good to remind them that Apple products look more and more attactive as Microsoft keeps fumbling around with with their toy desktop.

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 06, 2013

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I also would like to see an usable scaling for Photoshop CC since owning a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro.

As a developer I know myself things can be hard but as a Lightroom user I see it's more than possible to provide a program which handles High DPI well.

Please provide us a fix - even if it's dirty and not everything is polished to the max. Communicate it and make it a option in the dialog or something else. And please, keep us informed about the progress. We care about our money and use PS on great hardware!

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New Here ,
Dec 08, 2013

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A fix or eta on something sure would be nice. Just dropped $1200 on a new Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro and everything works but certain Adobe products that I pay for and use daily. I have two weeks to return the laptop but if I can't use it for what is needed I'll probably be returning it this week.

How is it a Microsoft problem when some of the CC apps work fine such as Lightroom?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 08, 2013

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I paid US$2400 for an MSI GT70 not so long ago, but I thoroughly researched if it was the right tool for the job.  If you buy a 13 inch 3200 x 1800 laptop (or whatever they call it) wouldn't you consider the implications of such a high dpi on so small a screen before parting with your dollars?

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Explorer ,
Feb 17, 2014

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This is shameful. If Adobe was still only peddling non subscriptions, this would already be fixed.

Indesign doesn't have this problem, or if it does, it is not noticable and completely usable. Chris has noted that Illustrator, and I guess INDD don't shares the same UI code that Photoshop does.

Chris also claims that MS doesn't have the proper API's open for decent scaling.

However, Adobe, with Indesign and Illustrator and other apps have proven it does not need Microsoft to make their products work on Windows. Chris is saying that there are a couple different ways to make it work on high DPI screens - either with the programs drawing their own tools, or allowing Windows to scale.

They don't HAVE to fix this by allowing Windows to scale it, but in being stedfast about that, it allows for Chris and Adobe to have Microsoft share some of the blame.

Last I checked Photoshop was an Adobe product. Adobe clearly has shown it can do it. If it has not been done, the blame is square on Adobe.

But, it's business. I understand the way Adobe would *prefer* to handle it is the cheapest way possible, and if Microsoft had great scaling, that would be the cheapest way to solve things going forward.

But to come out and be honest about it? Perhaps give a small credit until it is fixed to your customers that have been generous giving you $50 a month (where a suite like office is $99 a year)?

Shameful. Gives subscription software a bad name.

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New Here ,
Feb 19, 2014

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When this fix is ready I assume that it will also be available to the CS6 version?

AND

Will it scale the canvas and what I create?

I hope for two yeses here!

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New Here ,
Feb 19, 2014

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Also I can add that i am really amazed how bad the DW UI looks. Tho the scaling seems OK the design of it is pre historic. Are you considering creating cleaner and more stylish looks? what about designing windows 8 versions for your apps?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 19, 2014

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Alek24 wrote:

When this fix is ready I assume that it will also be available to the CS6 version?

AND

Will it only scale the controls - or will also the canvas and what I create?

I hope for two yeses here!

If my memory is correct, I think it worked that way with the Apple Retina support, so I rather think at least the first part of your question will have a satisfactory answer, and probably both.  But I don't use a Mac, and don't know how Retina support works.  We also don't know how Microsoft are going to implement their part of the fix, which will obviously control how Adobe will be able to apply it to Photoshop.

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New Here ,
Feb 19, 2014

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That sounds good. And I cant imagine my second question to be negative now that Ive thought about it for a few minutes..

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LEGEND ,
Feb 20, 2014

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Alek24 wrote:


Are you considering creating cleaner and more stylish looks? what about designing windows 8 versions for your apps?

If Windows 8 is "in style" I don't want anything to do with style.  FUNCTIONAL trumps style.  I want controls that look like controls, not boxes I have to read to see that they're there.  The Windows 8 "anti-skeuomorphism" movement is just ridiculous.

-Noel

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Mentor ,
Feb 23, 2014

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Alek24 wrote:

Also I can add that i am really amazed how bad the DW UI looks. Tho the scaling seems OK the design of it is pre historic. Are you considering creating cleaner and more stylish looks? what about designing windows 8 versions for your apps?

Alek, someone asked the same question in the DW forum. The team's response is that this is not a high priority item on the to-do list.

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New Here ,
Nov 09, 2013

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Well I wish I knew this, because I have the new XPS 15 w 3200x1800 and Photoshop CC and Ai CC are completely unusable because the UI is microscopic. I will have to return this machine now.

dell-xps-15-3200x1800-photoshop-cc.jpg

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Explorer ,
Nov 10, 2013

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I've got the XPS 15, as well.    Photoshop UI elements at QHD+ 1800p native resolution are tiny, but usable.    Not at all optimal, however.   Dreamweaver is pretty-much unusable.   Running the display at half-res works ok, but that defeats the purpose of a hi-dpi display.

Question:  If updating Photoshop (Dreamweaver, Premiere, etc.) for Windows high dpi is so difficult for Adobe, then how is it that Lightroom 5 has perfect Windows hi-dpi scaling?    Lightroom looks great and works flawlessly on the XPS 15 at full QHD+, scaled to 200%.    Possible to get someone from the Lightroom team to share the secret with the rest of Adobe?

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 12, 2013

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I received a Dell XPS 15 late last week.

These are the CC Apps that work fine on the QHD+ with 200% scaling: LightRoom 5, Muse, InDesign and InCopy.

These are the CC Apps that I have installed that do not scale correctly: Photoshop, Premier, After Effects, Speed Grade, Media Encoder, Dreamweaver, Illustrator and Fireworks.

The Creative Cloud utility is a mixed bag: Home and Behance do not scale, Apps, Files, and Fonts do.

Interestingly I installed DxO Optics Pro 9 after all the Adobe products. After installation, a dialog box showed up on the status bar, but I could not get it to display. I rebooted and amazingly, all Adobe products and the DxO product scaled perfectly. The Desktop screen of Windows 8.1 did not scale correctly and was set to Smaller (100%). When I reset it to 200% the Adobe products listed as not scaling correctly above resumed that behavior. Setting the scaling back to 100% did not change the display of these products.

I am also using a Dell 30-inch monitor. The apps that do not scale correctly also do not scale correctly on this 2560 x 1600 display. The same apps running on Windows 8.1 from a Dell XPS 17 (3-years old) scale correctly on the larger monitor.

From these observed behaviors, I am wondering if a Registry entry has the wrong information?

Chris, I hope you will pass these observations along to your development teams.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 13, 2013

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For those that wish to use an external monitor with the XPS 15 Touch, you may change the following settings so that all the Adobe scales correctly on the external monitor:

Select the Settings charm

Select Control Panel

In the Control Panel view by icons select Display

Select "Let me choose one scaling level for all my displays"

Choose Smaller - 100%

Then select Screen Resolution

Under Multiple displays select Show Desktop only on 2

No all Adobe products will display correctly on the external monitor.

To use the laptop display, you need to reset scaling back to 200%

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New Here ,
Nov 27, 2013

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I'm using a 30" external monitor (2560x1600), with a high dpi laptop (3200x1800) and had the same problem with Photoshop 5.5 being micro scaled on both the laptop (expected), and my enternal monitor (unexpected). The following tip got it to scale correctly at least on my external monitor.

Windows 8.1

- Right-click on your Photoshop shortcut (you may have to create one on your desktop).

- Click "Properties."

- Select the "Compatibility" tab.

- Check the "Disable display scaling on high DPI settings" box.

- Click "OK"

This got it to stop microscaleing on my external monitor. Though it's still tiny on my high-dpi laptop which makes sense.

While this might not apply to those without external monitors, I hope that helps someone who comes across this.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 23, 2013

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I'll add to this too.  Initial requests for this date back as far as January?  It was done in a matter of weeks for Apple OS and its currently a massive secret regarding windows?

Unimpressed.

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New Here ,
Dec 03, 2013

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So does this mean that those of us who are not subscribers will never see a fix for this issue?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 03, 2013

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noliegirl wrote:

So does this mean that those of us who are not subscribers will never see a fix for this issue?

CS6 with all the updates will support Retina displays.

If and when a similar fix comes along for Windows, I kind of doubt that will be available for CS6, but that is just a guess

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New Here ,
Dec 08, 2013

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+1 for scaling problems. I'm using CC and Lightroom 5 on an ATIV Book 9+ and the text is barely legible. Almost all of my non-Adobe software works just fine.

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