Photoshop CS4 - Not enough RAM to open a file???

Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009

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I get this wonderful "Not Enough RAM" message, while trying to open a big TIF file (over 100 Mb). Till now it happened with big files that were saved in Windows. All other programs, including Photoshop CS3 opens the files just great. Resaving files in any other app helps, but this thing is a joke - I'm thinking going back to CS3... : (

Thanks.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009

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What are Your Photoshop – Preferences – Performance-settings?

Are other files open which (with their History) could be a drag on Your RAM?

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Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009

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My memory prefs are default (60% RAM, 4 cache levels)

History states 60

I have NO open documents whatsoever. My MACs RAM is 4GB. Every other program, even Photoshop CS3 opens those files even with many files open and many apps running, including Photoshop CS4! Yet, the same file is opened by CS3, but not by CS4.

This looks like a bug to me.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009

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What about Scratch Discs?

You might try raising the Memory Usage to 95%.

Is OpenGL enabled?

What are the settings in CS3?

And as a side-note: 60 History Steps seems a bit wasteful to me.

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Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009

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1. My scratch disk has 160 GB free memory.

2. My CS3 Settings are exactly the same.

3. I am working with 60 steps history for about 7 years already with all the old versions of Photoshop on old computers. The History ONLY affects temp file sizes on the disk, not the RAM.

4. Open GL enabled. I tried to disable it, no result.

5. I have installed the latest Photoshop update - NADA

: (

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009

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Ad 1) Is it a dedicated, internal Scratch Disk or does it have any other traffic?

Ad 3) That History can not be kept in the RAM would be news to me, where have You read that?

Anyway I’m baffled, maybe You could also try reducing Memory Usage, if increasing hasn’t helped.

Perhaps one of the Adobe-employees who drop by here occasionally has insights regarding the matter; but I can’t remember having come across complaints about CS4-specific performance-drops as compared to CS3 here (with the exception of Snow Leopard-specific troubles possibly).

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Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009

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1. No, currently I don't have a dedicated scratch disk, but I don't have one for couple of years now, and it never bothered me yet...

3. As far as I know history is kept in temp files. They are too big to be kept in RAM - ram is kept for operation, not for remembering history states. I was personaly deleting them manually in older versions of Photoshop - (they were staying on a disk after a crash). I don't know, maybe technology has changed recently, but anyway - it's not about that - again - every other program can open those files even with less ram availible.

I tried to reduce Memory usage, didn't help.

I am opening tens of those files at a time in Photoshop CS3, and it works. I just switched recently to CS4, and it's performance is worse so far...

I found tens of forum threads about RAM issues...

I even found this issue in "Known Issues" posted by adobe support, but all they advise is disable or enable Open GL and alter the memory setting, and few more little settings, but they don't help...

Thanks for answering anyway.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2009

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Maybe You might consider investing into more RAM and a dedicated Scratch Disk. (Easy said when one works on a company-Mac and doesn’t have to pay for that kind of stuff oneself …)

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404440.html

I understand that every operation, when RAM is exceeded, can flow into the Scratch, History included. 

»Purging Histories can release RAM or scratch disk depending on how recent your history data is.«

Sorry that I could not provide any help.

And my last post should not indicate that only Adobe-employees could be able to help; hopefully someone more knowledgeable on the matter will chime in.

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Explorer ,
Dec 07, 2009

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Well, my MacBook Pro doesn't allow more RAM than 4 Gb, but this is enough to run InDesign, Bridge, Mozilla, Photoshop, Skype, and some other small apps, all dealing with big projects and files at the same time, and it works perfect!!! It's only this Potoshop CS4, with this kind of files (saved immediately in Windows and bigger than ~100 Mb).

Even when I close everything else, it still can't open them...

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New Here ,
Dec 08, 2009

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I'm right here with you.  I have 5GB, and can open the exact same file and even larger in CS3, but in CS4 I also get this error, there is a definite problem here.

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Enthusiast ,
Dec 08, 2009

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Get iFreeMem and use it with Activity Monitor to find what is going on.

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Explorer ,
Feb 11, 2010

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Sorry for the late reply

I've tried this app iFreeMem - it doesn't help anyhow, it clears the unused memory, but Photoshop CS4 still cannot open those big files. It just wouldn't, no matter how big is my memory.

Again I repeat – Photoshop CS3 opens them just fine, even when many other apps are running at the same time.

So I suppose It's just a stupid bug in CS4...

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Mentor ,
Feb 11, 2010

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You may not have have enough contiguous, unfragmented available disk space for the scratch file in your one-drive laptop machine.  Think 35 to 50 times the size of your largest file ever, perhaps more.

Or are you saying that CS3 opens the same file on the very same machine?  

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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Explorer ,
Feb 11, 2010

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thanks for the concern, but please read the answers in this thread carefully – I have already answered about Scratch disks - I have 160Gb of free disk memory, and yes - My CS3 Photoshop opens exactly the same files with no problems. The bug only concerns files bigger than 100 Mb, and saved in Windows. Same size files saved on MAC open just fine...

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LEGEND ,
Feb 11, 2010

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60 history states? Good luck on a MacBook.

If you are more realistic about your resources you will find your files will probably open but I would connect tis mac Book up to a fast eternal drive and use that as a scratch disk by partitioning it and using one of the partitions as the scratch.

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Explorer ,
Feb 11, 2010

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I have already answered this...

I work with 60 history states for about 7 years with much more crappy computers, and everything works fine.

I have exactly the same history and memory settings in CS3 and it WORKS FINE!

The problem is ONLY with Photoshop CS4, and ONLY with files saved in Windows. Even if I change ALL the memory settings in Photoshop CS4 to minimum, it still doesn't open. Even if I change the Scratch disks to another drive - it's still the same problem.

Only if I resave the same file in MAC with another application, then it opens just fine in Photoshop CS4!

Besides - there are people with exactly the same problem...

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Mentor ,
Feb 12, 2010

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soom1976 wrote:

… read the answers in this thread carefully…

With all due respect, it is you who could craft your posts more carefully.

soom1976 wrote:

…I have already answered about Scratch disks - I have 160Gb of free disk memory…

You have stated you are on a one-drive laptop machine.  Therefore, you have no clue as to how much unfragmented available space you actually have for the Photoshop scratch disk.  Your drive unavoidably has fragmentation from prior use.  Also remember that, on a one-drive machine, Photoshop has to share the available drive space with the invisible, uncounted swap files of the OS.

soom1976 wrote:

…My CS3 Photoshop opens exactly the same files with no problems.

You still neglect to specify if this happens in CS3 on the very same drive, in the very same machine, today.

You could consider using the free http://s5.yousendit.com/ service to post a sample file that will not open in CS4.

All of this is predicated on your genuinely wanting help, of course.

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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New Here ,
Feb 12, 2010

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I have Photoshop CS4 which will not open a scanned file saved as .tif format, 135 Kb file.. This is a new problem; I get the Not Enough Ram message. However after reading your post, I opened a 42 Mb file from Raw image, no problem! So the problem seems to be the saved .tif file. The RAM message seems to be inaccurate. I just saved three scanned files and now try to open in PS CS4. First one I get the RAM message. Second one I get "not right kind of document" message. The third one opens. My conclusion is the the Out of RAM message is not accurate. Any comments?

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Valorous Hero ,
Feb 12, 2010

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Sometimes an error message of not enough RAM will appear if the file parser has issues with the type of TIF being opened. There are many flavors of TIFF.

Do you have any way of converting that TIF to another type prior to opening in Photoshop?

EDIT: Pabloinla, thanks for posting your sample file. It is definitely a non-standard TIFF file. Perhaps if the OP did the same, we could have recognized that this was a non-standard TIFF issue and not really a RAM issue.

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Explorer ,
Feb 12, 2010

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Tai Lao wrote:

With all due respect, it is you who could craft your posts more carefully.

Ok, lets not make this thread an argument about post crafting.

I'll make it as clear as possible:

Tai Lao wrote:

You have stated you are on a one-drive laptop machine.  Therefore, you have no clue as to how much unfragmented available space you actually have for the Photoshop scratch disk.  Your drive unavoidably has fragmentation from prior use.  Also remember that, on a one-drive machine, Photoshop has to share the available drive space with the invisible, uncounted swap files of the OS.

According to many different discussions, nobody, even Apple, can really tell If it is necessary to defragment OS X drives, and there are only 3rd party software that do it. Although I'll give it a try, I'm sure this is the issue, because I have tried to set my Scratch disk to an empty external FireWire harddisk, with no avail.

You still neglect to specify if this happens in CS3 on the very same drive, in the very same machine, today.

Yes - Photoshop CS3 is exactly on the same machine with exactly the same settings on exactly the same drive and it opens exatly the same files at exactly the same day.

You could consider using the free http://s5.yousendit.com/ service to post a sample file that will not open in CS4.

Will do as soon as I get to work with those files again.
Thanks

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Explorer ,
Feb 12, 2010

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Marian Driscoll wrote:

Sometimes an error message of not enough RAM will appear if the file parser has issues with the type of TIF being opened. There are many flavors of TIFF.

Do you have any way of converting that TIF to another type prior to opening in Photoshop?

EDIT: Pabloinla, thanks for posting your sample file. It is definitely a non-standard TIFF file. Perhaps if the OP did the same, we could have recognized that this was a non-standard TIFF issue and not really a RAM issue.

I also think it has something to do with specific TIFs, saved in Windows, and not with RAM.

But - all other apps on my Mac can open those TIF files just fine.

This file that was posted here by pabloinla in the post before, is not my issue, because this one is really corrupt or something - I also cannot open it. My TIFFs are FINE, except that PS CS4 does not open them if they are bigger than ~100 Mb.

Sorry I didn't post the files here, but by the time I started this thread, I have already resaved all the problematic files into smaller ones. I will post a file as soon as I deal with them again.

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Mentor ,
Feb 12, 2010

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soom1976 wrote:

According to many different discussions, nobody, even Apple, can really tell If it is necessary to defragment OS X drives,

This is not about defragmenting the drive.  I am attempting to make you aware that you will always have fragmentation on your drive in a one-drive laptop, no matter what you do.

Photoshop needs to find a single, contiguous, non-fragmented chunk of drive space to create the scratch disk.  On a one-drive machine you will never, ever know exactly what the largest, unfragmented chunk of drive space you have at any given instant is, but you can bet your life on the fact that it will be a lot less than the total amount the Finder shows you.

As I just typed, your drive will inevitably be fragmented even before you boot up, and the swap files of the OS will further fragmented once it's running.

You can use an external drive for scratch, just make sure it's formatted as Mac HFS+ Extended and NOT case-sensitive.  Do a Get Info (Command I) on the icon of the external hard drive in the Finder and check "Ignore Ownership of this Drive" if necessary.

Photoshop creates the scratch drive the instant you go to open an existing file or create a new one, setting its size on assumptions it makes based on your workflow history, not just the size of the file you're opening.  Thus, it is possible that the scratch disk sizes for CS3 and for CS4 will be different on your machine.  This will be the case if you have worked on bigger files or with more layers. etc, on one version than on the other one, even for the very same file.  The difference could be dramatic.

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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LEGEND ,
Feb 12, 2010

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Tai tells the truth and you seem to be not only arguing with him but everyone that this cannot be a user induced problem.
But it can.

Also though you may have been working with 60 states of history for a long time does not mean it hasn't caught up with you and contributed to the fragmentation of the your data space which PS needs to make the scratch.

But if this information is not useful to you then I say by all means ignore it.

Aso repairing the r permissions might help.

And Mary's concerns about an erroneous message it might not be an erroneous message if an issue cannot not be resolved  but keeps calculating past the scratches capacity and the RAM's capacity as well then there really is not enough memory so the message might be realistic though surprising.

But all of this is nothing the OP really has to concern themselves with though others that read this thread might take into consideration.

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Mentor ,
Feb 12, 2010

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soom1976,

Do you know if your problem TIFF file was also saved by HP hardware and MS software, like Pabloinla's?

Wo Tai Lao Le

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Mentor ,
Feb 12, 2010

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Pabloinla,

Your posted TIFF file is an untagged (no embeded profile) grayscale TIFF generated by Hewlett Packard hardware and Microsoft software.

"tiff:Model: HP PrecisionScan LTX 1.2", "xmp:CreatorTool: Microsoft Office Scanning 1.03.2349.01".

There is no end to the grief caused by HP and MS in my experience. 

Wo Tai Lao Le

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Explorer ,
Feb 12, 2010

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Tai Lao:

I fully understand the need for a separate scratch disks, I just don't have one right now. But the most important argument is this: how do you explain Photoshop CS3 doing the same job and CS4 - not? Even if I work on a one piece disk, opening a 100 Mb TIF file should not be a problem. I open tens of hem at the same time in PS CS3 and they fly!

The TIF files were saved with 2 different programs: ACDSee 7 and XnView. They were scanned with Plustec OpticPro 320 scanner. both produced TIFs that don't open in CS4. I'll repeat again – every single application on my Mac can open and save them, except Photoshop CS4.

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Mentor ,
Feb 12, 2010

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soom1976 wrote:

But the most important argument is this: how do you explain Photoshop CS3 doing the same job and CS4 - not?

Not an "argument" at all except in the sense you seem to love to argue.     I had already provided you with the answer to that in one of my posts above.  Here we go again:

Photoshop creates the scratch drive the instant you go to open an existing file or create a new one, setting its size on assumptions it makes based on your workflow history, not just the size of the file you're opening.  Thus, it is possible that the scratch disk sizes for CS3 and for CS4 will be different on your machine.  This will be the case if you have worked on bigger files or with more layers. etc, on one version than on the other one, even for the very same file.  The difference could be dramatic.

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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Explorer ,
Feb 13, 2010

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Oh, didn't get it first

When I get to it, I will try again with an empty external HDD and let you know... Hope external firewire HDD will do for a scratch disk?


I can't go and partition my disk now in the middle of the ongoing project.

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New Here ,
Feb 20, 2010

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I have the same problem. A 120 MB TIFF file created by my scanner - Photoshop CS4 (Mac version) can't open it because of not enough memory. I tried opening it with Photoshop Elements 6.0 on the same computer and it opened fine. I used Elements to save the file as a PSD. Then Photoshop had no trouble opening, even though the PSD file had grown to 302 MB. Photoshop crashed shortly after this, but then when restarted was able to edit the 302MB file.

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New Here ,
Feb 21, 2010

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Goes to show that Adobe should work a bit on opening all types of .tif files so we don't have to try workaround methods. Your file was large, mine was tiny! Same issue!

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New Here ,
Feb 22, 2010

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It¹s ironic that they supposedly ³manage² the TIF format. Even more ironic

that they¹re slightly stripped version of Photoshop could open my file

easily. Anyway, Photoshop is a very complex program, not only to use, but I

imagine also to program, so you¹re always going to see things like this. All

the best.

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Feb 22, 2010

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Not the same issue, else Elements would not have been able to read the file.

One issue was Microsoft writing bad files --  Photoshop isn't going to be able to fix that.

The other issue:  I have no idea what could be wrong until I get a copy of that file to debug.

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New Here ,
Feb 22, 2010

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I included the file with my original thread. If you can't find it, let me

know. Anyway, the comment about Elements, well if Elements could read the

file and Photoshop could not and the file is .tif, seems related to

Photoshop code, doesn't it? My file, well it may be damaged, hence a

different issue!

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Feb 23, 2010

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Elements cannot read the bad encoding written by Microsoft.  They use the exact same code for TIFF as Photoshop.

Elements CAN read another user's file that has a DIFFERENT problem.

Just because 2 people can't read 2 completely different TIFF files does not mean that the underlying cause is the same.

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New Here ,
Feb 23, 2010

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Honey pie, that is exactly what I was saying! Anyway, this issue is

inconsequential and time to leave it alone!

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Explorer ,
Feb 21, 2010

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jadco32 wrote:

I have the same problem. A 120 MB TIFF file created by my scanner - Photoshop CS4 (Mac version) can't open it because of not enough memory. I tried opening it with Photoshop Elements 6.0 on the same computer and it opened fine. I used Elements to save the file as a PSD. Then Photoshop had no trouble opening, even though the PSD file had grown to 302 MB. Photoshop crashed shortly after this, but then when restarted was able to edit the 302MB file.

Exactly - it proves again, that it's a bug in Photoshop CS4

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New Here ,
Feb 22, 2010

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It¹s ironic that they supposedly ³manage² the TIF format. Even more ironic

that their slightly stripped version of Photoshop could open my file easily.

Anyway, Photoshop is a very complex program, not only to use, but I imagine

also to program, so you¹re always going to see things like this. All the

best.

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Feb 22, 2010

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Even more ironic is people posting replies without reading the previous discussion.

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New Here ,
Apr 02, 2010

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My CS4 is doing the same things with a 20MB TIFF file. After reading this thread I actually took the time to create an account so I could reply and hopefully add to the hunt of this problem. Tonight I just have to work around it with CS3, thank God I still have it installed. I have 8GB of Ram and CS4 is the only thing open. There is 138GB open on my new scratch drive. I have allocated all the memory PhotoShop will take in the preferences and still it wont open a 20MB TIFF!! WTF If it helps, these TIFFs are comming out of Maya 8 on a Mac.

Good luck everyone...

I'm glad this Forum is here.

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Apr 02, 2010

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Send me a copy of that 20 Meg TIFF file that won't open in CS4.

ccox @ adobe.com

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New Here ,
Apr 02, 2010

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Wow that's cool of you thanks. I'm curious about what you find in there.

http://www.jessehigman.com/heart/Logo_Higman_Bright.tif.zip

Jesse

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Mentor ,
Apr 02, 2010

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Jesse,

Try opening this TIFF through Camera Raw.  You'll be surprised.

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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Apr 05, 2010

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It says that the file isn't available.

Did you delete it already?

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New Here ,
May 07, 2010

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I've had this same problem with a layered tif file saved out of CS3 and sent to a client who was using CS4. We were all using recent Macs with lot's of ram to spare and on both sides multiple machines were involved.   Opening the MUCH larger original psd file was no problem but opening the layered tif generated the "not enough memory" error.  Fortunately, I also use CS4 and tried to open the file which generated the same error on my end, so I was able to do some detective work.  I found that when I saved the tif with the byte order set to IBM PC it would not open, when I re-saved out of CS3 with the byte order set to Macintosh it opened just fine in CS4.  I'm not sure that this will apply to all the other post's I've read here, but it does seem to be a smoking gun pointing to a bug on Adobe's part.  Good luck all on finding your own workarounds.

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May 07, 2010

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The only thing I can think of for that case is a bug in the metadata written by CS3 that can't be read by CS4 or CS5 (because the metadata is corrupt).

It's rare, but can happen.

Email the file to ccox@adobe.com and I'll take a look.  We only found the problem recently, and are investigating a way to avoid it in the metadata reading code.

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New Here ,
May 07, 2010

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Chris,

The files in question are 200-300 MB zipped, plus they belong to my client so I'm not really at liberty to send them to anyone.  However, I have had this happen before in CS4, that's one of the reasons I usually default to using CS3, it has never given me this problem.  I usually try to save my files to be as Windows friendly as possible, that is why I have chosen the PC byte order as a default for many years without a problem (Macs haven't cared about this setting in the past, they just opened the files).  As this doesn't happen consistently I'll try to keep my eye's open for a file I can send you, but more than likely it will be too big to email, is there somewhere I can upload to? 

Thanks.

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May 07, 2010

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Contact me by email, even 500 Meg isn't too large by today's net standards.  We have FTP sites, as well as services like yousendit available.

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New Here ,
May 27, 2010

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Chris,

I recreated files that behave as I stated.  I saved the CS3 file as an IBM_PC byte order and also as a Macintosh byte order.  They behaved the same on multiple machines with varying configurations of processors, RAM, scratch disks, etc...  but all with standard loads of CS3 and CS4 (standard and extended).  Just need to know where you want me to send them.

Thanks.

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May 27, 2010

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Email the files to ccox [at] adobe dot com

I believe this is related to a byte order bug in part of Photoshop CS3, and won't affect all files.

I have a fix, but want to make sure that this really is the same problem that I just fixed.

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May 27, 2010

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Oh, the "out of RAM" message is wrong -- it's reading bad values from the file, and thinks that part of the metadata is over 2 gigabytes (which we can't always allocate, and thus "out of RAM").

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New Here ,
May 27, 2010

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Hello,

We are experiencing this issue as well.

We had no issue opening large TIFF files in Photoshop CS3; but PhotoShop CS4 users on a variety of Mac machines are unable to open them in CS4, they get the "Out of Memory" error.

Even on Mac Pros with 8 cores, 8 gigs of memory and a 250 GB scratch disk.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Erik

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New Here ,
May 27, 2010

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When I saved out of CS3 I had to change the tif options (the second window when you do a "Save As" for a tif file) I'll include a screen shot to show you what I mean;

TiffOptions.png

After saving this way I have consistently been able to open my files in CS4.  I do not have a Windows version of photoshop to test on so I'm not sure how this effects anyone having this same issue on a Windows machine, but, I'm sending files to adobe as soon as I get contact info so they can look at them and hopefully figure this out. BTW, the amount of available RAM for most of these images holds little bearing on being able to open and work on them.  I have been able to open and work on (albeit slowly) much larger images on far older machines with small amounts of RAM without problem.  Also remember that due to still being 32 bit on the mac photoshop can only access a maximum of 3GB of RAM anyways.  If I heard right, we will have the opportunity to access more RAM when we have CS5 running on Snow Leopard as that is supposed to allow a 64 bit version, I think/hope.

Hope some of this helps you out.

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