Photoshop CS5 freezes

[Yefolio-KBIqSr]

Hi,

Have been using PS CS5 since the trial became available. But seems CS5 responds a lot slower than CS4. Sometimes, it just freezes or slow the whole computer down when I tried to open a many-layer file. I had to force quit the application, It's really frustrated because the system responds very slow even I tried to quit PS. Once it's quite, everyting's back to normal. Does anyone have this problem?

Thanks,

[Evil_Lair]

Chris Cox wrote:

Watching Activity Monitor, I wee the Window Server suddenly become the most active processes.

Sigh.  OK, that's a useful clue.  Now we just need to figure out what is causing the Apple Window Server to wig out. (normally it's due to large numbers of windows or dialogs, but that shouldn't be the case here)

That is what was happening to me too, window server at 100% of one core. I presume the window server being completely saturated is what causes interaction with every other part of the OS to act very slow as well.

[Chris Cox]

I presume the window server being completely saturated is what causes interaction with every other part of the OS to act very slow as well.

Yes,  if the Window server has a problem, then the entire system slows to a crawl, hangs, or in some cases gets a kernel panic.

But again, that should only happen with a large number of windows or dialogs.

Something odd is happening to the window server.

Anyone with this problem happen to be in the SF-Bay or Seattle area?

[_scott_]

Chris Cox wrote:

Anyone with this problem happen to be in the SF-Bay or Seattle area?

About half way between the two.. closer to Klammath.

[ashlie_h]

Nope AZ.

[Chris Cox]

It appears, then, that the consensus is that the two are not two "very different things". 

No, you just misunderstood what they were saying.

Application freezes and crashes are very, very different things to the user and to the developer.

(except in certain cases of confused users)

IF it were the case that I had font problems, then I wouldn't be able to go back into CS4 and work without problems.  In fact, I haven't had any problems with CS4.  I do, however, have repeated crash/freeze conditions with CS5, and this isn't always related to working with fonts.

That would only be the case if CS4 and CS5 had identical code and called identical OS APIs.

Photoshop CS4 encountered some OS bugs that CS5 does not, and CS5 encounters some OS bugs that CS4 did not - because the code changed and the API usage changed.

[nnnickk]

No, you just misunderstood what they were saying.

Application freezes and crashes are very, very different things to the user and to the developer.

(except in certain cases of confused users)

There is no misunderstanding-- it's written there in plain english.  However, dealing mostly with computer languages as you do, I would expect the even non-subtle nuances of the english language to be challenging for you to fully appreciate.

If you'd like, I can go over this in more detail for you, here is the sentence:

A crash (or system crash) in computing is a condition where a program (either an applicationor part of the operating system) stops performing its expected function and also stops responding to other parts of the system.

You might want to read it a few times.  Photoshop CS5 is a program.  This program's behaviour, as described in this thread, consists of "stopping performing its expected function" and, Chris, it also "stops responding to other parts of the system."  You'll notice that a period ends the thought.  So, if there is a misunderstanding, I'd much enjoy you illustrating where it lies.  But, you won't be able to.

Next: even if it is the case that these are "different things to the user and to the developer", what it means is that you, the developer, have a small-percentage non-standard usage.  What that means, Chris, is that the broadly accepted definition is the "more correct" one. 

To give you an example, if two friends and I think "sailboat" means "deli meat", our small-scale non-standard usage is not considered "correct".  Were I to engage in conversation with a normal english user, I would look foolish claiming that their usage was incorrect just because a few others and I use the term in a way that runs contrary to the popular definition.

If you didn't put it together, the users are the majority.  So, while you may personally have some freaky-deaky version of what a "crash" is, I, and the majority of people, probably the majority of developers, disagree with your definition, so it would behoove you to familiarize yourself with what most people are talking about-- especially if you intend to use forums to communicate with said people.  Which you are.

That would only be the case if CS4 and CS5 had identical code and called identical OS APIs.

Photoshop CS4 encountered some OS bugs that CS5 does not, and CS5 encounters some OS bugs that CS4 did not - because the code changed and the API usage changed.

Oh, okay.  It seems convenient to blame the OS-- in fact, there is no way for an end user to tell whether or not it's one or the other.  But then, you did decide to develop for it.  You did manage to solve these problems in all prior versions.  Somehow other software manufacturers are able to build software for this "buggy OS". 

I think it's absolutely laughable that you would blame the OS for the bugs in CS5.  If you take a step back, you must think it's ridiculous too: I bet that if you read another developer in another company's forum saying such, you'd feel embarrassed for them.

[Chris Cox]

The broadly accepted definition... is not what you are using.

The broadly accepted definition, is what I've been trying to explain to you.

Please stop arguing and use the correct words.

I think it's absolutely laughable that you would blame the OS for the bugs in CS5.  If you take a step back, you must think it's ridiculous too: I bet that if you read another developer in another company's forum saying such, you'd feel embarrassed for them.

No, because we know how many bugs are in the OS -- we've been working with Apple to get a lot of them fixed.

[nnnickk]

Chris Cox wrote:

The broadly accepted definition... is not what you are using.

The broadly accepted definition, is what I've been trying to explain to you.

Please stop arguing and use the correct words.

Actually, you haven't been trying to explain anything.  If you have, it's been another miserable failure.  This is all you've had to say on the matter:

Freezes and crashes are 2 very different things.

An analogy:

Freeze:  my car stalled and won't restart.

Crash:  my car exploded, and there's nothing left but a burn mark on the road.

I have provided links with definitions, but your ego is in the way of your understanding.  If you should see past your own head, you might learn something.

What you describe as a crash is absurd.

Here are some links with the publicly accepted definitions that you refuse to accept:

A crash happens when the program just completely stops performing its intended function, along with failing to respond to other parts of the system as well. When this happens, the program you're using may appear to just "freeze up,"

http://www.worldstart.com/tips/tips.php/4021

A crash can manifest itself in many different ways. The computer may "freeze" or "hang" indefinitely when a crash occurs, or it may display any number of obscure error messages.

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/itinformationtechnology/l/bldef_crash.htm

If the crash occurs in an application, then only that application "hangs up," but other applications continue running.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/computer/crash

Need I continue?

Clearly, the accepted definition is as I've used, and not as you have. 

You've contributed nothing in terms of what you are using for your definition and haven't provided any sources: nothing beyond your own ham-fisted meanderings and poor analogies.  And this is your profession!  Gulp!  It's like a carpenter not knowing what a hammer is.

(As an aside, do you know what a hammer is?)

I again, welcome your clarification.  Perhaps we're using a different definition of the word "definition".

[Chris Cox]

I'm sure that if I search the internet long enough, I too can find incorrect definitions of common terms.

But repetition of mistakes does not make them correct.

If you are going to contribute to discussion of actual bugs here, please do so with correct terms so everyone knows what you are talking about.

If you are going to continue debating the accepted definition of common terms, then please, do so in another forum.  We've got work to do here.

[nnnickk]

Chris Cox wrote:

I'm sure that if I search the internet long enough, I too can find incorrect definitions of common terms.

But repetition of mistakes does not make them correct.

If you are going to contribute to discussion of actual bugs here, please do so with correct terms so everyone knows what you are talking about.

If you are going to continue debating the accepted definition of common terms, then please, do so in another forum.  We've got work to do here.

These are the top returns for a google search of "computer crash definition."  Can you admit you're wrong yet?  There's a reason you can't provide any resources that confirm your point of view-- it's because there aren't any.

Anyway, I came here in the first place to report that your software is crashing with disturbing frequency-- and instead of focussing on the problem, you elected to quibble about differences between crashing and freezing-- differences that aren't there, that you are incorrect about.  This mistaken belief, on your part, will hinder your ability to properly diagnose and rectify the problems reported by users in buggy Adobe software.

As such, I think it would very much benefit you to educate yourself on the terms and definitions used in your industry, and that users like myself will be using on forums such as this-- as your confusion has lead to some wasted time here.  Certainly, making sure that you are also using the commonly used definitions would certainly help you communicate with other people.  The world doesn't revolve around your basement.

So, Chris, if you'd like to get to work, figure out why the software is freezing.  Why it's crashing.  While you're at it, read a glossary or two before you start beaking off and coming off as an ignoramus.  Educate yourself.  Oh, and throw in a volume on customer service, too.

I'm trying to help you.  This could benefit your career.

[Chris Cox]

OK, so you are not here to work on a problem, you are just looking for an argument.

If you want help, please abide by the terms of service for the forums.

[nnnickk]

I'd love to work this problem out-- it's why I'm here, why we're all here.  But really, we should be talking to a staffer who knows what a program crash is.  We should get some less junior employees on here-- is that possible?

[c.pfaffenbichler]

We should get some less junior employees on here-- is that possible?

Have you ever browsed the About Photoshop-screen?

Because I don’t think they put the junior employees that far to the front of the list.

[Tai_Lao]

Christoph Pfaffenbichler is being too polite.  The quote in his message by nicknlsn is so far out of line that it's embarrassing for its author.

Chris Cox is a top Adobe engineer, a leading Photoshop DEVELOPER.

[Guest]

Disclaimer: I only wandered into this thread to see if I was dealing with a troll in another thread with mariopocaroba. I guess I am not surprised to see the ignorant and rude comments to Chris (preserved in another's quotation). These threads that degrade to attacks are a certain way to make them useless to Adobe developers.

nicknlsn wrote:

We should get some less junior employees on here-- is that possible?

There seems to be a confusion that Adobe employees are responsible to monitor and respond to posts in this forum. Personally, I would prefer that they stay focussed on programming than sift through random posts that often lack any substance required to troubleshoot problems. When every post has a 'report abuse' link, one should easily infer that these forums are not monitored 24/7. Few posts on these forums ever come to Adobe's attention.

These user to user forums are great for asking 'I have this problem - does anyone else have it or is there something else I can do?'.

From a development standpoint, these forums are a lousy place to report bugs to Adobe. They can often annoy developers who cannot get relevant information from users or must pick out real issues from personal attacks. Chris has often illustrated this with a 'sigh' in his posts. From a customer service standpoint, it is a no-no to reveal this kind of frustration to a customer. But I prefer this to what Chris must really want to say.

You will notice that all Adobe employees that have dared to respond have never promised anything. They cannot. All that they can say is that they are reviewing it or working on it. To expect them to carry on a conversation here about their progress is lunacy.

If you want to report a bug/issue to Adobe, contact them directly through their bug report form.

Click here to report bugs to Adobe.

[Chris Cox]

Chris has often illustrated this with a 'sigh' in his posts. From a customer service standpoint, it is a no-no to reveal this kind of frustration to a customer. But I prefer this to what Chris must really want to say.

Hmm, guess I need to use that expression less often.

The "sigh" isn't about frustration with the customer -- usually more frustration with an OS vendor or our own internal problems.

Oh, and if you're ever around me in person, you'll see that I sigh and take deep breaths a lot - more an issue with big lungs and bad allergies.

[ashlie_h]

Mine just froze again, no type tool involved, one layer open. Had to reset.

[claudio_170310]

Hi, I installed snow leopard and now PS goes smoothly. Occasionaly it just freezes up for 4 seconds when I am using the save for web tool but compared to the program running with leopard it works like a charme.

Bye!

[ashlie_h]

Snow Leopard gets very sketchy reviews. Isn't there a way to make Leopard compatible?

[Mike_Ornellas]

You get what you pay for being on the bleeding edge. Enjoy your lesson in the new free world of paid public software betas.

[Mike_Ornellas]

Nice new forum censorship where as you can't reply to a posting log in, but you can clearly see your post that you have stated that you care Chris.

In the big picture of things, he could care less. So could I. Sorry, but I care. I know, it's a personality flaw of mine:  but I care.

Even if it is a buggy OS:  we can sometimes work around the bugs, or get the OS vendor to fix their bugs.

Let me rephrase my statement.

You care to the extent that you take pride in your work. You don't have control over all things. You could care less about the damage your product produces because you are not in the position of being able to care. I call that irresponsible corporate greed.

This is not personal Chris, but until you and management come to realize the control you have over all graphic industries and the damage your company creates with this crap, I guess we shall just watch companies continue to erode for the sake of accounting practices and models geared towards "how to run a company" vs. "how to make the companies you affect stay in business to keep your life cycle alive."

YOUR company has a public relations night mare on it hands and it would be wise to start addressing how it conducts business for the companies that feeds it every 18 months.  You think tech support is bad? When the product starts to slip, customers will just walk away. Especially in bad times like now.

So - you may want to tell some of your friends on the 10 floor to wake up.

[Mike_Ornellas]

mariopocoroba

Chris, you should change your surname from Cox to Dick because that's how you come off in your responses to people who have paid a lot of money for buggy software prematurely released by your employer. If you can't interact with courtesy then why not get out of the customer service arena?

That was completely uncalled for and you should apologize for your behavior. Chris is THE MOST HELPFUL ADOBE EMPLOYEE. Maybe you should reflect upon your name sir.

[ralphsmith]

Budinsky - Don't worry about it, the comments were censored. And it was called for because I'm tired of seeing his condescending remarks to users who can't do their work with the garbage that Adobe just released, and are only seeking resolution.

[Mike_Ornellas]

We don't see this issues because we dont have this configuration, therefore, I can't help out with this.

sorry.

[C-Wave]

Another user with the exact same freeze issue on 10.5 and 10.6.  If I wait long enough, it usually fixes itself, but sometimes it is over half an hour.