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Why is Photoshop CS4 so slow? [2009]

Explorer ,
Jun 12, 2009 Jun 12, 2009

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Hi,

I know there's probably a lot of talk on this - there is doing google searches.

I recently upgraded to CS4. All other programs are great (ID, DW, etc.) but Photoshop... I'm ready to go back to Photoshop CS3.

When I turn the guides on and off it looks like some sort of animation effect they take so long to turn on and off. Moving the artboard around and zooming in and out is horrible.All over slow!

I have all the latest drivers of everything. Is there anything I can do?

Thanks.

 

 

(Year added to subject)

 

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Adobe
Participant ,
Mar 15, 2010 Mar 15, 2010

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Ok, so you may not be a troll, but to me you just sounded like one. Sorry for mis-understanding.

I'm still convinced that this is not a CS4 problem you have. On my netbook I just did as you said and rolled over the menu bar. The menus flipped open and closed faster as I could look and no artifacts. Also, sidepanels and their tabs open and display in no time. Again, this is an Intel Atom N280 at 1.67GHz, IGB RAM and Intel Mobile 945 graphics (definetely not a powerhouse!). Display problems usually have nothing to do with the applications, but rather graphics drivers and hardware. Even if said problems only occur in certain applications, that may just mean that other applications do not use certain features of the card/driver.

Have you checked if you have the latest graphics driver for your card? It would be interesting if you could test another card or better even CS4 performance on a clean new install of Windows to exclude any other influences. I know that troubleshooting these problems is difficult and time consuming, but it can only be done on the user side (because Adobe does not have YOUR computer with YOUR hardware and software combination ...).

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New Here ,
Mar 15, 2010 Mar 15, 2010

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I have the latest drivers. I also installed 11.0.1 update which fixes the so-called brush-lag. Well it only reduces the lag from a second to quarter a second but if I enlargen brush size almost the same lag can be experienced while it is using 100% CPU.

Display problems usually have nothing to do with the applications, but rather graphics drivers and hardware.

Adobe user interface "display problems" have nothing to do with display drivers, rather the slowness is a fault of interface speed which is a fault of inefficiently written bloaty code. I wonder how it can run on your netbook as smooth as you say. I have already tried on clean installs, not just Photoshop. Also tried on different types of comupters (on a Dual-Core too and it was not 100times faster, only 2times maybe) and if clock is not so high, there is lag, because of CPU-intensivity which can be seen on Task Manager. Maybe I have more critical eyes than you?

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Mentor ,
Mar 15, 2010 Mar 15, 2010

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New Here ,
Mar 15, 2010 Mar 15, 2010

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http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/405/kb405711.html says:

Note: OpenGL is enabled for the 7300GT, but Advanced Drawing and 3D Acceleration are disabled due to technical issues.

You mean this? Oh yes, I've noticed but only a few of basic features use these "advanced techniques". If I completely disable hardware acceleration - so unsupported video card is not a factor like this - it is also slow as hell (even slower than when enabled), but this is not the point. PS CS4 user interface and drawing is much slower and CPU-intensive than PS 7.0 (at the same tasks) that does not support any 3D hardware acceleration at all. This is a regression for CS4 in comparison to 7.0.

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Contributor ,
Mar 27, 2010 Mar 27, 2010

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You asked about my hardware, here it is: Pentium 4 2.00 GHz, 1GB RAM, nVidia Geforce 7300 GT

Operating system: Windows XP SP3

Well, in case you didn't get the memo, this is pretty stone age equipment to run PSCS-4 on. The RAM is the major issue.  Install a 64 bit OS and at least 4GB of RAM and things will happen all of a sudden.

We all have the equipment we have, there's no shame in that, but even Windows 7 32 bit requires a minimum of 1 GB of RAM.

As for your P-4, a new high end Intel Core i7 would be able to accomplish (in some benchmarks)  >> 20 TIMES << the throughput of that CPU. Even ther smallest Core i3-530 would embarrass it in any test you could give it.

It's no secret that programmers squander resources, Adobe's guilty of that, make no mistake, but new hardware now available provides a huge cushion for it.

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New Here ,
Apr 01, 2010 Apr 01, 2010

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Well, in case you didn't get the memo, this is pretty stone age equipment to run PSCS-4 on. The RAM is the major issue.  Install a 64 bit OS and at least 4GB of RAM and things will happen all of a sudden.

No, it’s not my computer that is too "stone age" to run PS CS4, it’s Adobe that has forgotten about optimization and efficiency at all. I’m still talking about basic features. If someone wants to edit gigabyte-sized photos, then I’m the first to say: buy X gigs of RAM if you want it to be faster. But this is not the case. I’m talking about manipulating photos not bigger than 2048x2048 for example and it’s significantly slower in PS CS4 than it was in PS 7.0, moreover User Interface (which has nothing to do with picture manipulation itself) is also a lot slower than it used to be (even a primitive screen-capture test can prove it). Why is the same thing slower in a newer version?

We all have the equipment we have, there's no shame in that, but even Windows 7 32 bit requires a minimum of 1 GB of RAM.

It’s Winbloat 7’s shame that it requires 1 GB of RAM while it hasn’t got as much new basic features as its system requirements are (same as Adobe). I’m pretty sure W7 should not be the example. Picture manipulation operations (let’s call them basic features) can easily be done with a P4 (even a P3) using other non-bloaty software (older versions of Ulead PhotoImpact XL, PaintShop Pro, Ulead iPhoto Plus). Shame that these programs I mentioned don’t have all the basic features that CS4 has, but the ones they have in common with PS are faster. Slowdown is not the result of using a "stone aged" computer. Slowdown is the result of bloaty binary code that is generated during compilation from inefficiently-written source code. Btw, well-written user interfaces are not slow even on a really stone aged computer (like a Pentium I). Bloaty user-interfaces are sluggish on everything except state-of-the-art "power-stations" that have too much resources to be wasted.

It's no secret that programmers squander resources, Adobe's guilty of that, make no mistake, but new hardware now available provides a huge cushion for it.

I’m glad you are among the few ones who recognize this problem. This guilt could only be forgiven  if Adobe didn’t expect so much money for their bloaty work or made up its mind to release resource-efficient (that are much faster than earlier versions with lower system requirements) softwares from the next version (let it be CS5 or CS6).

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Contributor ,
Apr 01, 2010 Apr 01, 2010

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str4ngS wrote:


It's no secret that programmers squander resources, Adobe's guilty of that, make no mistake, but new hardware now available provides a huge cushion for it.

I’m glad you are among the few ones who recognize this problem. This guilt could only be forgiven  if Adobe didn’t expect so much money for their bloaty work or made up its mind to release resource-efficient (that are much faster than earlier versions with lower system requirements) softwares from the next version (let it be CS5 or CS6).

True enough, I do recognize this problem. I've even taken to installing "Foxit" reader, instead of the monumentally bloated "Adobe Reader".

However, I also recognize the massive improvements that a newer machine can bring. This because I still cling to older apps such as "Nero 6". If you want to see that relic sing, punch up "Recode", and watch the FPS in "Advanced Analysis. It's something like maybe 300 FPS with a P-4 519 and very easily 1000+ with a C2D E7300.

That being said, I'm not quite sure what you perceive will be the outcome of all the complaning. You started this thread with the question, "Why is PSCS-4 so slow"? Then you proceded to tell us exactly why. Might we assume then, that that was a rhetorical question?

So basically, you seem to be of the opinion that Adobe should orient all of their programming efforts into keeping you happy, for as long as you intend to keep your current machine. Whether wanton or wasteful, foolish or prudent, "time, tide, and Adobe's programmers wait for for no man".

It also seems that you really didn't need the upgrade in the first place. As I said, if an older app suits my needs, I'm not about to piss my money away on another. Two examples that spring to mind are "Nero 6", and M$ "Flight Simulator 2004". Nero 9 and Flight Simulator X, are bloated pigs, loaded with DRM, and they can keep them.

PSE-7's Organizer is much slower than PSE-5's, but it's also 16 bit, so, I cut it some slack for that reason.  I have no wish to upgrade to PSE-8, but, PSE-8 is compatible with Windows 7 and 64 bit, so if I want to have these things, then upgrade I must. Well, the trial version of PSE-8's organizer DOESN'T expire, so that's a relief, since I own PSCS-4 and PSE-7 to edit with.

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New Here ,
Apr 01, 2010 Apr 01, 2010

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You started this thread with the question, "Why is PSCS-4 so slow"? Then you proceded to tell us exactly why. Might we assume then, that that was a rhetorical question?

I did not start this thread, kit02 did. I just tried to give specific and technically-proven answers to the question. If I was the one to start a thread like this, it would have been like "Photoshop CS4 is slow, please do something about it".

So basically, you seem to be of the opinion that Adobe should orient all of their programming efforts into keeping you happy, for as long as you intend to keep your current machine.

Basically yes, but keeping machines is not about anyone's happiness. It's about e.g. not dropping a machine (which still works okay) into the trash bin, because the software market ruled by moguls like Adobe wants us to. It's about not buying a new computer produced by manufacturers who cause environmental load and damage during their process, if we have one which is still doing good. It's about insipring developers to make an effort on making up better and better ideas for optimization. Imagine a world where there were only Pentium III comupters. Would there be an application like Photoshop CS4? I'm sure there would be, because graphics professionals would expect them, and software companies would be inspired to pull out from the hardware as much as they can. Would it be bloated? I'm sure it won't be bloated, because developers couldn't tell the magic excuse: there is new hardware in the market, just buy it. But now this is not the case. Adobe developers don't make any effort on optimization. They (and also their consumers) tell you to buy new hardware and trash the older one, even if it's still working. This is a big problem, and guess what: I'm not happy now.

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Contributor ,
Apr 01, 2010 Apr 01, 2010

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str4ngS wrote:

You started this thread with the question, "Why is PSCS-4 so slow"? Then you proceded to tell us exactly why. Might we assume then, that that was a rhetorical question?

I did not start this thread, kit02 did. I just tried to give specific and technically-proven answers to the question. If I was the one to start a thread like this, it would have been like "Photoshop CS4 is slow, please do something about it".

So basically, you seem to be of the opinion that Adobe should orient all of their programming efforts into keeping you happy, for as long as you intend to keep your current machine.

Basically yes, but keeping machines is not about anyone's happiness. It's about e.g. not dropping a machine (which still works okay) into the trash bin, because the software market ruled by moguls like Adobe wants us to. It's about not buying a new computer produced by manufacturers who cause environmental load and damage during their process, if we have one which is still doing good. It's about insipring developers to make an effort on making up better and better ideas for optimization. Imagine a world where there were only Pentium III comupters. Would there be an application like Photoshop CS4? I'm sure there would be, because graphics professionals would expect them, and software companies would be inspired to pull out from the hardware as much as they can. Would it be bloated? I'm sure it won't be bloated, because developers couldn't tell the magic excuse: there is new hardware in the market, just buy it. But now this is not the case. Adobe developers don't make any effort on optimization. They (and also their consumers) tell you to buy new hardware and trash the older one, even if it's still working. This is a big problem, and guess what: I'm not happy now.

I thought you started this thread, my mistake, an an apology.

That said, this is still a consumer oriented society, and as such, things need to be replaced to fuel the system, whether it's Adobe's greed, or our trying to "keep up with the Joneses". So, while I"m completely on board with not throwing things away, whether for sentimental reasons, or as a tribute for past loyalty, time marches on. This is as I see it, basically what you're against. I love my old machines, of any purpose, and I like to keep them in good condition, so that my next purchase will be something I don't have, not something I need ro replace. Still, I have to be pragmatic, and the world is not about to come around to my way of thinking. So, in the meantime, we all have to do our parts to help fuel China's industrial revolution, no matter how badly it may come back to haunt us..

Still, don't you think it's a bit dictatorial to suggest that everybody program for a P-3 computer. I'm a control freak but yo, that's kinda over the top by any standard. Why in the old days, computer cases were as bit as stage coaches, if you know what I mean.

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Explorer ,
Apr 13, 2010 Apr 13, 2010

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Guest
Apr 13, 2010 Apr 13, 2010

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He was told about that patch in post #1!


But nobody reads post #1. 

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Guest
Apr 13, 2010 Apr 13, 2010

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Guest
Mar 15, 2010 Mar 15, 2010

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Although there are a lot of things I don't like on CS4, slowness is not one of them. It fairly zips along compared with earlier versions.


You may have sub-optimum hardware, or be one of these people that has all sorts of background activity – either intentionally like messaging or unintentionally like extraneous services or even malware!

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Guest
Mar 15, 2010 Mar 15, 2010

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Some people expect a Ford Pinto to run as fast as a blown GTO because they put a racing stripe on it. If you want to run PS CS4 as it was designed to do then you have to update that computer to PS CS4 requirements. Simple as that.  

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Guest
Mar 15, 2010 Mar 15, 2010

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And if you want to do professional standard work (which is what Photoshop is designed for) get a professional standard computer.


If you want to just play around, get different software.

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New Here ,
Mar 16, 2010 Mar 16, 2010

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If I have to hammer a nail into a wall, and someone puts a new hammer on the market, I expect the tool to do "at least" the same duty its precedessor used to do.

If I can't hammer the nail with the same speed or the same power it's not me needing to buy a different hardware, it's the tool that HAS to do its job. Eventually the "hammer engineers" should study a better beveled edge or a more balanced weight to allow my SAME force to push the nail faster and deeper inside.

Think about a Sport like Tennis.

Do the players have to train harder to use the newest hi-tech raquets and faster and more responsive balls -or-  it's the technology that goes toward their needs and adapt to their capabilities, eventually allowing them to increase results and control sense?

Technology updates itself like a junkie needs meth. New Processors came out every 6 months. Video Cards GPU follow the same trend, with ridicule prices (600 EUR for a card that will live less than a year.. just makes bad words grow in my mouth - be realistic) If we have to buy new HW everytime a CS Version comes out we should have our offices full with wasted HW.

It's a lesson learned from many OpenSource developers.
If you see the same HW running Vista and Ubuntu, you realize that you can do practically most of the same duties with less than a fourth of memory. Microsoft realized it and developed a more light and better managed (but still not at Ubuntu Level - a pity that doesn't run Adobe soft) OS like Win7.

Apple reduced the high problematic life of its MacSystem9 with the release of OS X.

Now Adobe should do the same. IMHO They just devoured their antagonist so they are supposed to do a bigger effort and give us a cleaner product not "expecting us to buy other tools" to "hammer the same nail".

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Guest
Mar 16, 2010 Mar 16, 2010

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Oh yes? And just imagine the uproar if a new software release did not take advantage of proven advances in hardware!


I love it when people with a little superficial knowledge start pontificating.   

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New Here ,
Mar 16, 2010 Mar 16, 2010

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Right, like if to use a new kind of gasoline you need to buy a new car.

Please.

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Mar 16, 2010 Mar 16, 2010

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Photoshop doesn't need new hardware with new releases.

We spend a lot of time and effort making sure that new releases are about the same speed as previous versions.

But some new features (3D, GPU drawing) will require new hardware or more memory to function.  That's unavoidable.  But you don't have to use those features, you can turn them off or ignore them and keep on using the app like you used previous releases.

We do sometimes require more recent OS versions, since OS vendors don't like to go back and fix bugs in OSes that they have stopped supporting.  And we may require service packs for the OS to avoid known bugs in certain OS versions.

And the question to ask is "why is Photoshop CS4 slow on MY SYSTEM, when everyone else is running just fine?".  I think this thread has gone over several reasons why particular drivers, third party utilities, etc. could be slowing you down.

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New Here ,
Mar 17, 2010 Mar 17, 2010

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I totally agree with Chris points.

It's just too simplicistic to solve problems changing everything in cases like this.  The fact that most of the problems occurred not when using new features but working on the "same old duties" was something that affected my system (or those of my customers) in particular and gave mehard time just to edit a simple 35Mb Tiff or a slightly bigger RAW.

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New Here ,
Mar 19, 2010 Mar 19, 2010

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Dear Chris Cox,

Thank you for your answer.

But some new features (3D, GPU drawing) will require new hardware or more memory to function.  That's unavoidable.

Agree. This is not a problem if you let users disable these features so they can avoid higher memory usage. I know I don't have to use GPU features, I never said I can't turn them off, but the point is not them.

The point is that either GPU features are used or not the Graphical User Interface is slower than it was in PS 7.0. UI elements render slowly and the application uses 100% CPU when switching a menu tab or opening items from the upper menu. This means it renders everything using the CPU and GPU has nothing to do with UI rendering (only content/image rendering if turned on). This UI slowdown issue started from Photoshop CS2 when UI elements were significantly re-designed or re-implemented. I still don't understand the reason of this, because this made Photoshop look a lot slower. Maybe it's cross-platform and more compatible with MacOS, so it's comfortable for developers. PS 7.0 UI worked fine even on slower/older computers without significant slowdown. Take a look at the screenshot I took of menubar lag. I could not force PS 7.0 to produce menubar lag like this even on a 500MHz Pentium III while it was running other applications too. This highly contradicts your statement "We spend a lot of time and effort making sure that new releases are about the same speed as previous versions.", no offense here, I really like your attitude and I hope I could help you by drawing attention on UI slowdown, but your statement is just not true for CS4 (I hope it will be for CS5 compared to 7.0), its User Interface is slower than 7.0's (which is an earlier version).

Unfortunately there is no application I know about that could genuinely prove the difference I have experienced, but I tried to do my best and screen-captured Photoshop 7.0 and Photoshop CS4. I used the open-source software called CamStudio 2.00 (with default settings).

#1 MouseUp (start)
#2 Switched (end)
00000428.png00000429.png


For PS 7.0 it took less than a frame to complete the drawing of the tab switch.

#1 MouseUp (start)
#2 (still drawing)
00000255.png00000256.png

#3 (still drawing)
#4 (still drawing)
00000257.png00000258.png

#5 Switched (end)
00000259.png

For PS CS4 it took four frames to complete the drawing of the tab switch - this means at least four times as much time and CPU than 7.0 needed. The slowest part was probably its bottom bar.

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Mar 19, 2010 Mar 19, 2010

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Not 4 times as much CPU - but yes, some UI designer thought that animation would make the UI more friendly.

Now that I have more specific complaints, I can bring this up with them, and ask that the animations not get in the way of actual customer work.

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New Here ,
Mar 20, 2010 Mar 20, 2010

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Not 4 times as much CPU - but yes, some UI designer thought that animation would make the UI more friendly.

If an application uses 30% CPU for e.g. 100 milliseconds, and another uses 70% for 200 milliseconds, that is definitely several times more CPU usage. Photoshop CS4 has these ratios in comparison to PS 7.0, though this is also very hard to measure. Switching this tab in PS 7.0 causes 20-30% CPU burst when swtiching. At PS CS4 this burst goes up to 60-70% and takes four times longer.

This does not look like a UI animation at all. This is a slow GUI drawing and I won't believe this is an extra feature. Animations are smooth and you can follow the transitions. Animations can be turned off in the Options menu in every worthwhile application, but in PS CS4 it can't be (if this is still an "animation" it's also a big fault that can't be turned off). By the way, it would be highly expectable from a "professional" software to have a switch to turn off these extra "features".

noaniminterface.png

There is a whole menu for Interface settings. So where is the word "animation" or "animated UI elements"?

We all know this is not an extra animation. GUI is slow, because it is based on inefficient code. Also there are much more slowdown in GUI in comparison to PS 7.0 (or even CS2), almost every element of the UI has this new design and is slow, a few examples:

  • Switching between projects using Ctrl+Tab
  • Minimizing and re-maximizing the whole app (GUI redrawn in more than a second)
  • Menubar lag
  • Almost all basic tool (brushes, gradient and bucket fill, cloning, masking) appears to be slower, because of Interface lag.
  • etc.

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New Here ,
Mar 19, 2010 Mar 19, 2010

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If you want to run PS CS4 as it was designed to do then you have to update that computer to PS CS4 requirements. Simple as that.

No, this is not so simple. PS 7.0 ran fine on this computer and I think CS4 has the same basic features (these are the things we mention as "designed to"), so it's expectable to run at least as fast as its predecessor when using these features, but it doesn't.

I love it when people with a little superficial knowledge start pontificating.   

Depends what you call superficial knowledge. Your statement "if you want to do professional standard work (which is what Photoshop is designed for) get a professional standard computer." is definitely superficial knowledge that has been pressed upon you by advertisements and the laws of wild-capitalist market.

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Guest
Mar 19, 2010 Mar 19, 2010

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str4ngS wrote:

Your statement "if you want to do professional standard work (which is what Photoshop is designed for) get a professional standard computer." is definitely superficial knowledge that has been pressed upon you by advertisements and the laws of wild-capitalist market.

No it's not mate, it's direct experience.


(I don't do adverts.)   

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