Now in Beta: Dramatically updated color management in Premiere Pro

[Alexis Van Hurkman]

We’re pleased to bring to public beta some dramatic improvements and expansions to the color management experience, tailored specifically to the needs of the Premiere Pro editor. With the right source clip metadata, color management automatically adjusts the color and contrast of each clip in your sequence so that every source clip from every camera is converted into a shared color space for further adjustment, and then output to the color space of your choice with automated color space conversions, tone mapping, and gamut compression creating high-quality output with the correct color.

In this new version, color management becomes more automated, handles more formats, preserves more image data, and gives you more flexibility to choose just the right workflow for your needs, even turning it off either partially or completely if you would rather work manually using Input LUTs, Creative LUTs, and effects.

After installing the public beta, your default Premiere Pro experience shouldn’t seem that different from before, but there’s a lot under the hood to explore. Here’s a rundown of the new features we’ve made available when using Premiere Pro color management:

• Each sequence’s color management is easily configurable in the Sequence controls of the Settings tab of the Lumetri panel. By default, color management works similarly to the Premiere Pro color workflows you’re already used to when using the default Direct Rec.709 (SDR) preset. Alternately, you can choose to use one of our wide-gamut color processing presets to maximize the image quality of all grading and timeline effects when using wide-gamut or wide-latitude source media. Regardless of how you choose to work, Lumetri and other effects have been made color space aware, so they work well in any preset.
• Users who don’t want to use automated color management can now turn it off from within the same Color Setup menu. This is useful for pass-through workflows when you don’t want the color space of media being processed at all, or when engaging in traditional display-referred grading workflows using LUTs and manual adjustments.
• Premiere Pro now automatically color manages camera raw media, including Apple, ARRI, Canon, RED, and Sony raw media formats. As long as color management is enabled, raw clips will be automatically processed.
• The Override Media Color Space menu has been expanded to support even more color spaces for more cameras and formats, making it easier than ever to color manage media that were either recorded or transcoded to standard file formats such as QuickTime and MXF, without needing to track down the right input LUT.
• For clips you don’t want to be automatically color managed, a new Preserve RGB setting in the Color tab of the Modify Clip dialog prevents input to working color space conversions, allowing you to manually convert clips either using LUTs or manual filter adjustments.
• Program Monitor, Video Scopes, Transmit, and Media Export all output the image as it appears after conversion to a new Output Color Space setting. While the working color space lets you choose how media is processed, the Output color space lets you choose the specific color space you want to monitor (SDR, HDR PQ, or HLG) and deliver your program to. This guarantees that the working color space never needs to be changed, while making it easy to change color spaces at any time to create multiple deliverables using the same grade (e.g., delivering both HDR and SDR versions of the same sequence).
• Improved tone mapping algorithms and new gamut compression settings improve quality when automatically converting wide-gamut source media to standard dynamic range. Additionally, there are now two ways  of using tone mapping, on input or on output.
• Premiere Pro color management has been improved to enable smoother interoperability and color consistency using Dynamic Link for round-tripping color managed sequence clips between Premiere Pro and After Effects whenever you use the Replace with After Effects composition command.
• Last, but certainly not least, if you import projects and sequences created in older versions of Premiere Pro that have grading and effects already applied, these will automatically be configured to appear the same as before, while the color management will function exactly the same as before. If you decide you want to override these legacy settings and use the new color management, you can override the custom settings the sequence was set up with and choose a different color management preset (and you can use Undo if you find this was a mistake).

As you can see, color management in Premiere Pro has become quite a bit more sophisticated. However, the best way to experience this is by upgrading to the public beta, creating a new project, importing some media, and experimenting for yourself:

• By default, new sequences use the “Direct Rec.709 (SDR)” preset with the output set to Rec.709. This preset is best used when most of your source media is SDR but you’re importing some wide gamut camera raw or log-encoded media as well, and will give you the most familiar color handling experience.
• If you want to try working completely manually, you can open up the Sequence Settings and set the Color Setup menu to “Disable Color Management.”
• If you’re more adventurous, you can change the Color Setup menu to “Wide Gamut (Tone Mapped)” to try using the wide gamut workflow we’ve created to maximize the quality of sequences using primarily wide-gamut media.

As you experiment with the new color management options, be sure to share your questions or comments in this forum. We also encourage you to view the new color management documentation on our website: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/color-management-improvements.html. 

Keep in mind that we’ll be continuing to bring improvements throughout the public beta period as we respond to issues reported, so details may change as time goes on.

We look forward to your feedback!

[R Neil Haugen]

Do remember, Resolve started as a $250,000 seat grading app. And is still the most widely used grading app around. It's getting some decent editing capabilities, but still isn't up to Premiere let alone Avid ... as an NLE.

Premiere has been always built as an editing thing ... including the level of color management Alexis Van Hurkman got through between 24.x and 25.x is a huge change in one version.

We'll see some upgrades as they go along. But right now, we can't do transforms in/out of the working space. Just to one or another.

So yes, you can work in a Rec.709 sequence/working space, and use those LUTs. 

What are you doing with them, out of curiosity?

[SpaceCherryFilms]

I agree with everything you said, but since this is a BETA software, where the users are encourage to give their opinions and requests for features they want to see impliemnted into the softward.  Hence why I am commenting about things I feel needs to be addressed so it can be as good as a formerly $250k seat grading app which is only $300 today.

All im doing with the luts is using them a starting point.  Then on do all my grades on the log clips grades with the rec709 applied on an adjustment layer. 

[R Neil Haugen]

Are you using them for normalization? As if so, I'd recommend ditching them. The algos in both Resolve and Premiere are safer starting points for log normalization.

Or are they a more look type use?

[SpaceCherryFilms]

Im not ditching them.  I have used these for various productions for ESPN,, NFL, BET, MTV, History Channel, Hulu and other various broadcast produtions, they are not the problem.  Plus as of now it's a mute point, I started a new project in Beta 25.2 and the problem is gone.  So im good now, thanks for the help.

[R Neil Haugen]

LUTs are very useful. And also have limitations being as they're simply data charts saying X triplicate goes to Z.

If the people shooting your media are absolutely professional, then LUTs can be (normally) safe. As long as they are consistent.

For those not dealing with such exactly produced media, tha actual and complex mathematical computations of the algorithms are safer. They will not clip nor crush pixels.

Which LUTs can and will do. If the image files aren't close to perfectly shot according to the specs of the camera.

[SpaceCherryFilms]

Exactly this, the luts I was given for these productions are use acrossed the board, and developed by them for their productions.  Often times Im dealing with Sony Venice, fx6/9 and various Arri cameras, its way faster to throw a LUT they assigned to get the desired results they want.

[R Neil Haugen]

Yep, if you have them because the boss says to, you got them.

@Alexis Van Hurkman @Shebbe  ... advice? How to use a wide gamut sequence with a display overlay LUT? Is it possible at this time in Premiere?

[Shebbe]

It's a bit hard to follow what exactly the issue is or was.

@SpaceCherryFilms how were you using the LUTs exactly before? Were they applied per camera on log before a Rec.709 converson LUT, or after Rec.709 conversion? Were they specific for each camera? What kind of display conversion LUTs were you using before? Different ones per camera?

What I can say about the current standings of color management is that it is not possible yet to use LUTs designed for Rec.709 in ACEScct working space. Whilst Lumetri does now have the option to define the LUT space (which is an internal conversion to and from if that space does not match the current working space), it breaks when using ACEScct because the internal conversion is not the same as the actual conversion that is happening from ACEScct to Rec.709 with tone mapping that you use as Sequence settings.

When you want to use Rec.709 based LUTs or sRGB/Rec.709 graphics in a log working space the conversion of that data into that space needs to be the inverse of the forward conversion to the display. Otherwise you end up with a different appearance where it treats display white as diffuse white resulting in a darker, incorrect image because the tone mapper was making room for 'specular highlights'.

Alexis did mention somewhere in this thread that there's still work to be done, but no official statement that there will actually be true inverses of the available tonemappers.

Structuraly it would ultimately be practical to also have the option to roll manual color management with native plugins that do what the colorspace converter and tone mappers do so you can do similar set ups like you would in Resolve with CSTs as nodes and decide when what gets converted, display tonemapped, inverted etc.

But most importantly for the project wide management, the inverse tonemappers need to be built otherwise the ACEScct working space is unusable.

Hope that clarifies things.

[R Neil Haugen]

Good post, Shebbe ... and as always, thanks for helping out here!

You're right, we need to be able to manually do transform processes in/out now, on both ends and the middle too. And ....  😉

[SpaceCherryFilms]

Hey Shebbe,

These LUTs are used to normalize the look of the cameras,  the luts were designed by the DP team to make sure what they are seeing when shooting is same as what it will look like for broadcasting in a rec709 color space. 

When I was testing out the color management in Premiere Pro, I notice that the ACEScct wide gamut has better detail retetion in the highlights when I brought down the exposure.  I liked it, it reminded me of how DWG works in Resolve.  The colors looking crazy in my earlier post it a result of placing Lumetri Color in the master clip effects.  when I move it to the clip effects the problem goes away. 

BUT,  now from reading this tread I shouldn't be able to use the rec709 lut in the sequence to begin with, as well as there's no way to do a CST withing the space to duplicate  a similar workflow I have in Resolve.  So basically I'll just stick to rec709 in premiere beta.   Like you and I said, there needs to be a CST workflow for ACEScct in Premiere.

[Shebbe]

That sounds like they are also converting and tone mapping to Rec.709 from each log camera state. It means the LUT files themselves are designed to do the color management as well. This is why it makes the setup complicated when two color management mechanism are enabled at the same time. As I mentioned, it is possible provided you have inverses of one of them to undo their transform but at the same time you are canceling out something you enabled in the first place. Even in Resolve there are caveats/downsides to such a workflow which is why for all of my current color grading work I use full manual management.

I understand your preference of Lumetri's exposure behavior in ACEScct because it's behaving photometrically plausible. You can achieve the same result however without color management/color space aware effects. Just like in Resolve DWG/Intermediate you can do offset operations on the log footage before the conversion. If you grab Brightness & Contrast effect, the brightness slider is actually the same math as offset in Resolve. Becuase of the nature of log encodings, the exposure stops are equally spaced apart from black.. so adding or subtracting equal amount of values to all channels equates to an exposure change. The only finicky thing is that the slider range is really coarse, so it's best to hold down CTRL/CMD while dragging for finer adjustments. The contrast slider of the effect is also linear rather than an s-curve so it can also be used to increase or decrease contrast on log.
They only operate on all channels equally so you can't do balance changes with it unfortunately.

[SpaceCherryFilms]

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try this the brightness and contrast effect

[Chetan Nanda]

Hi @SpaceCherryFilms ,

I might have missed few details in the thread, but you may use the conversion LUTs via 

* Modify > Color > Input LUT 

or 

* Lumetri Panel > Settings Tab > Source Clip > Input LUT

And Set the Override media color space to Rec. 709.

Thanks,

Chetan Nanda

[SpaceCherryFilms]

Whats the order of operation if I do it that way?  when I grade the footage, I want the changes I make to clip happen before the lut is applied.  Ie adjusting exposure for example, I do not want the exposure changes to happen after the lut is applied.

[sachag37368285]

@SpaceCherryFilms One way of doing that (you could call it the *old* way) - is to put an adjustment layer above the clip and apply the LUT to that - that way you can make any exposure adjustments to a clip pre-LUT. I did notice that if you did try to put the exposure adjustments after the LUT then highlights would be clipped (which was a surprise). Why is this an issue? If as I mentioned much previously you'd overexposed your Slog shots if you were using an older FS series camera (to reduce shadow noise) then applied the LUT and tried to reduce the exposure *after* it basically wouldn't work.

The other benefit of the adjustment layer is that it would apply the LUT to any and/or all the clips underneath it. Any existing 709 clips can just be put on the layer above.

[SpaceCherryFilms]

Ok cool, I guess im doing it the "old way" then, when I do grades in Premiere Pro Im trying to duplicate my workflow in Resolve without the CST portion

[R Neil Haugen]

There's a reason colorists refer to LUTs as "the dumbest math out there" ... because they aren't even math. They're just a text file of RGB triplict X to RGB triplicate Y ... with a limited number of 'points', and the computer just tries to run a smooth gradient between them.

Yes, if you apply the LUT to a clip with data outside the LUT's expectations, it will clip and crush data. Period. 

That's an issue with tranform and conversion LUTs. So for "field produced" media, you need to be able to trim the data of the clip prior to the application of the LUT, so you don't clip or crush.

In Resolve, if you apply a LUT, and in the same node as the LUT, do any adjustments, they are applied before the LUT is. That's called trimming the clip to fit the expectations of the LUT.

In Premiere, to properly trim the clip, you need to either use the Creative tab "Look" slot to apply the LUT, and trim using the Basic tab controls, or ... use a separate Lumetri instance to apply the LUT.

I always recommend the first approach, it's cleaner. But then I would include the Basic tab trim to fit the LUT applied in the Creative tab slot, use the Curves tab to do the hue to hue mods to get the camera closer to 'neutral' also. And typically drop this on the clip in the bin.

To apply a log-to-linear LUT and do all the grading pre-LUT could be done with either stacked Lumetri on each clip ... two Lumetri effects, the first is your grading one, the second is the one with the normalization LUT.

If you use a control panel, this is a pain as for YEARS now they have this bug that the control panels only work on the first instance of Lumetri on a clip. Which is a MASSIVE pain.

@Alexis Van Hurkman and @Francis-Crossman PLEASE GET THAT FIXED~!

So using an Adjustment Layer with the normalization LUT on it, which is applied after all clip effects, works just fine. Except for maybe needing to link ALs to specific clips. Which is a pain in and of itself.

There is a potential problem, and weird as it seems to me, I don't recall testing this in Premiere with it's fancy new CM controls. So I'd like @Shebbe to help with this ... if you have a wider working space timeline, such as the ACES option, and a typical Rec.709 conversion LUT applied in the AL above a clip ... and the Sequence CM set to Rec.709 ... does that work correctly?

[Shebbe]

There is a potential problem, and weird as it seems to me, I don't recall testing this in Premiere with it's fancy new CM controls. So I'd like @Shebbe to help with this ... if you have a wider working space timeline, such as the ACES option, and a typical Rec.709 conversion LUT applied in the AL above a clip ... and the Sequence CM set to Rec.709 ... does that work correctly?

By @R Neil Haugen

Not really.

You can try to enable CM with ACEScct working space and use a log clip tagged as the output space (Rec.709) to 'negate' the conversions. But as I mentioned a couple of times before in this thread, they have no inverses of their DRTs so you don't get the actual unaltered image. You need the exact inverse of the tone mapping decision you make in order to be able to arrive there. You could disable the tone mapping to solve this but what's the point of enabling a bunch of stuff in order to disable them again.

You would also need to load a LUT in the Lumetri Creative slot, which has options to define the LUT space which should be Rec.709.

You'd now have a match but doing this does not allow you to take advantage of Color Space Aware grading tools, because they are designed with the idea that the input data == timeline space (ACEScct). The math will be incorrectly applied if any other image state is used.

As you can see it would be most practical to disable color management, apply the LUT on clips or Adjustment Layer and apply Brightness & Contrast effects prior to the LUT which is to my knowledge currently the only possible way to natively manipulate exposure outside of Adobe's CM.

[SpaceCherryFilms]

Exactly.  For now, Im just going to continue play with Premiere's CM and stick to my workflow for grading in Resolve for now.  Im loving the direction things are going in.