Discuss: ProRes RAW support

[Manish_Kulkarni]

Hi Everyone:

The following Beta applications support import of ProRes RAW footage:
- After Effects (Beta) 17.1.0.33 (and later)
- Media Encoder (Beta) 14.2.0.1 (and later)
- Premiere Pro (Beta) 14.2.0.1 (and later)
- Premiere Rush (Beta) 1.5.9.4 (and later)

System Requirements for macOS:

• macOS Catalina 10.15 (or later)
• macOS Mojave 10.14.5 (or later); requires user-installation of Pro Video Formats 2.1.1 (or later) from Apple. Such Pro Video Formats are NOT licensed or supported by Adobe and are subject to Apple Terms and Conditions

The Metal renderer must be selected for use in the applications (this is already the default setting):

• After Effects (Beta): File > Project Settings... > Video Rendering and Effects > select "Mercury GPU Acceleration (Metal)"
• Media Encoder (Beta): Preferences > General > Video Rendering > select Renderer: "Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (Metal) - Recommended"
• Premiere Pro (Beta): File < Project Settings > General > select Renderer: "Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (Metal) - Recommended"

System Requirements for Windows:

• NVIDIA GPU with the latest drivers. 4GB or more Video Memory recommended.
• Required user-installation of ProRes RAW Decoder from Apple. ProRes RAW Decoder is NOT licensed or supported by Adobe and is subject to Apple Terms and Conditions

The CUDA renderer must be selected for use in the applications:

• After Effects (Beta): File > Project Settings... > Video Rendering and Effects > Mercury GPU Acceleration (CUDA)
• Media Encoder (Beta): Edit > Preferences > General > Video Rendering > select Renderer: Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (CUDA) - Recommended
• Premiere Pro (Beta): File > Project Settings > General > select Renderer: Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (CUDA) - Recommended

We look forward to your feedback.

Thank you,
Manish Kulkarni
Adobe

[Alchemivision]

Thanks Martie! 

That's exaclty the info I needed. I think I've cracked it now! 

If I reduce exposure by -4.0 (I'm told there's an exposure correction tag in the ProRes Raw metadata that I guess is being ignored in Premiere) then apply a Rec709 Linear gamma/Rec709 Gamut to Vlog-Vgamma LUT I created in LUTCalc (here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8iq9b8oj1sqfo85/Rec709_Rec709-VLog_VGamut109-109.cube?dl=0) Then I get my footage back to vlog standard (there's a slight error in the gamma but it seems to be close enough!)

I'll shoot a colour chart to check the colours - but I think we're close enough!

I'm not sure if this workflow will work for others - there'll be different exposure compensations needed to each camera I expect, and a different LUT to convert to the right log curve, but it's a start.

Thanks!

[MartieB]

Hi Alchemivision,

Excellent!
Thanks for sharing your solution so others can benefit as well.

Cheers,

Martie

[Ryan Sauvé]

I would appreciate that we call this a "workaround" rather than a "solution".

The solution is for Adobe to obtain the linear raw to log transforms from camera manufacturers and implement in the system. Otherwise, you're suggesting users figure out to use a program like LUTCalc to develop their own transforms, which is beyond ridiculous.

Hopefully, progress is being made on this issue since it was submitted almost 2 weeks ago.

That being said, thanks for all the work so far. I'm just stuck in my beta testing until you guys can get the debayer transforms figured out, which should be at the top of the list of important issues to fix. 

[Ryan Sauvé]

Anybody else have Prores RAW functionality no longer work with the lastest update? I'm on 14.2.0 (Build 20).

I hear the audio but the "media pending" screen for video. When I "disable master clips" then try "source settings", system hangs up. Is anyone even testing to make Prores RAW works before they roll out these betas? Thanks.

[MartieB]

Hello Ryan,

Can you confirm the issue you are seeing- are you running on Windows?

Are these newly imported ProRes RAW clips or were they imported previously (existing project)?

On Windows PR14.2.0.20, I can reproduce media pending issue if a previous project was opened with existing media files and cache. New project and imports are working if media cache is deleted.
Do you see the same?
A new bug was opened to track.

My tests for Mac 14.2.0.20 have been working w/o issue.

Thanks,

Martie

[MartieB]

Ryan,

The ProRes RAW bug as described above in Premiere on Windows is fixed and in today's posted beta build.

-Martie

[Ryan Sauvé]

Thanks, wasn't getting email notifications so didn't see until I checked now. I can see the Prores RAW footage now with the new build (14.2 build 24) but Nikon/Ninja V Prores RAW colours are still messed up. Any update on that? Been quite a while now since first reported.

[MVARay]

Hey there guys,

Not sure if you saw my post on the Beta group for AE, but I will copy and paste that here as well for you guys. 🙂

Alrighty my run into with ProRes RAW in AE.

So in my tests, I have been mainly using ProRes RAW in Premiere. But now I am testing out a green screen shot I did with myself (gotta love Covid and no actors available, lol). And I found that when you bring in footage into AE, the RAW data doesn't stay intact. Also if I send the footage to AE via [Replace with AE Composition] it reverts to the issue. But it does keep the Lumetri information from Premiere.

In Premiere, I am able to go into the lumetri color space and utilize the scopes to see that the highlights are still able to be brought back.

But again, when I bring it into AE, it seems as if it was burnt into the footage. 

Just something to look into.

I figured I would put this under BUG and PERFORMANCE for you guys review.

It plays fine in After Effects. Just has this color issue.

To help you guys understand what I am using, here are my specs:

Camera Info : Sony FS5mkii | 12-BIT ProRes RAW recording to Atomos Shogun Inferno | 23.98 fps Frame size: 4112 x 2176 | Square Pixels (1.0) 

Premiere BETA [14.2.0] | After Effects BETA [17.1.0]

My Computer Rig: Intel Core i7-8700K | 32GB RAM | Samsung M.2 Main Drive | Samsung 1TB SSD

Windows 10 OS Home

[vafombad74085600]

Hey guys and girls, prores raw doesn't work with AMD card? I change my graphic card to AMD now Premiere is not recognizing the codec. 

[MartieB]

Hello Vafombad74085600,

Currently only Nvidia GPU cards with CUDA renderer are supported for ProRes RAW on Windows. Please see listed requirements:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-beta/discuss-prores-raw-support/td-p/11013854?page=1

We are looking into future support for additional cards on Windows.

Best,
Martie

[Ryan Sauvé]

Any update to the way Premiere handles Nikon Prores RAW footage from the Ninja V? Waiting for for that RAW to Log transform fix from you folks. 

[MVARay]

Hi there everybody ... So I ran into a new issue.

I have been testing the BETA Premiere Pro with ProRes RAW recorded to my Atomos Shogun.

And it plays back great when I start a new project in the BETA Premiere 14.2.0.

But as a test, I opened up a current project of mine from Premiere Pro 14.0.4, in BETA Pr 14.2.0, and it opens fine, but the ProResRAW Footage I shot stated I needed to update my NVidia Card Drivers. 

I then did that, tried again and it still would not work. So, I have come to the conclusion that, if I open an old PR project into the BETA PR, that the ProResRAW ability is still considered blocked in it's file system.

Something else to look at it.

** Edit As I was testing before posting this**

If you open a new BETA PremierePro project, open the ProRes RAW footage in the new edit. Import that footage via the Media Browser into the project, and then copy and paste that into the older Premiere Project opened in the BETA, that works ... lol. Well ... Its a work around, but still something else to look at it.

My specs below:

Desktop Computer: Windows OS | Intel i7 8thGen | 32GB RAM | NVidia 1080TI | Samsung M.2 512 GB Main C Drive | 2TB Samsung SSD

Camera and File: Sony FS5mkii | Output to Atomos Showgun Inferno | ProResRAW Frame Rate 23.98 | ProResRAW Frame Rate 59.94 | tested both ProResRAW (non HQ) and test ProResRAW HQ

[R Neil Haugen]

mvaray ...

There is a major difference between simply opening an older project file in a newer version and importing that project file or its assets into a new project file created by the new version. It's all about the metadata getting properly handled.

Simply opening an old project will run into problems quite frequently, especially with metadata-heavy media.

So ...

• create a new project in the new version
• in that project, use the Premiere Media Browser panel to navigate to the older project file on disc
• select the file, right-click/Import, and select whether the whole project or select sequences

Try this process and see if the ProRes RAW now works.

Neil

[MVARay]

Thanks Neil,

Yea I should have learned that by now. I have ran into this issue in the past in other updates.

Also FYI, yes that worked as well. 🙂

Thank you for your thoughts.

[R Neil Haugen]

There are so many things we all do ... then remember dang, I shoulda done it that way not this way ... blast ... I KNEW that and forgot it!  lol

And as always the best school of learning is the School Of Ultra-Hard Knocks.

My best teacher ever. Sigh ...

Neil

[timm54129936]

Great that this is finally out! Thank you. Import of ProRes Raw files works great.

However I was a little dissapointed to only find exposure control in the master tab of my effect controls. What about information & control over ISO, white-balance, noise reduction, raw to log conversion or general settings for colour space, gamma curves, etc.? in my opinion, having all these settings and information in the master tab of the effect control (like with R3D or braw files) is really the wohle point of an efficient raw workflow.  is that something that has to do with the codec itself or is it the implementation in premiere pro? is that something that's still to come?

Also 

thanks
tim

[Ryan Sauvé]

Those are great questions and what I've been trying to find out from this Adobe team.

I asked some of these about a month ago with no answer so far so good luck. It's like trying to squeeze water from a rock with these guys.

They've opted for a very hands off approach to this "beta" program. I'm also basing this on my previous experience working with software development and implementations.

Might as well just submit questions through the end user technical support channels. You'll likely achieve a similar experience.

Sorry, I'm just annoyed by the lack of progress and stepping up on Adobe's end with respect to Prores RAW integration.

I have a specific issue with Nikon Prores RAW footage and I'm ready to work with whoever will listen and wants to work through some testing with me but my attempts to get sh*t moving forward seem to always fall on deaf ears. 

[Manish_Kulkarni]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your feedback.

We will be augmenting ProRes RAW Source Settings with additional controls.

When these are available for testing, we will provide another update.

Manish

[Manish_Kulkarni]

Hi All

We have fixed a Color Processing bug in the ProRes RAW pipeline. This will result in a change in the displayed colors for ProRes RAW footage.

This fix is available now in:
- After Effects (Beta) 17.1.1.4
- Media Encoder (Beta) 14.3.0.5
- Premiere Pro (Beta) 14.3.0.4
- Premiere Rush (Beta) 1.5.16.4

You can check for these updates from the Help menu of the Creative Cloud Desktop application.

Note that this fix is independent of the RAW to Log transform that some of you have requested. We are continuing to work on that feature, and will provide additional updates in the future.

We look forward to your feedback.

Manish

[Ryan Sauvé]

NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Great job Adobe team! The colour science is looking SOOOOO much better. Patiently and eagerly awaiting that RAW to Log transform. But this at least opens the door for me to play around a bit more.

THANK YOU and keep up the great work. Almost there!

BEFORE (Pre-14.3.0.4 Update)AFTER (Post-14.3.0.4 Update)

[Ryan Sauvé]

For those wanting an NLog starting point in Premiere Pro Beta to hold you over until they get RAW to Log Conversion going, here's a LUT you can use that I created tonight... https://www.dropbox.com/s/u188y70pwgpiqsf/NIKON_Prores_RAW_to_NLOG_5600K.cube?dl=0

Now, I haven't tested it yet but it looks pretty close on the charts I used to test.Prores HQ NLog from Nikon Z6 to Ninja VProres RAW to NLog LUT results

[Ryan Sauvé]

Some observations based on initial testing...

1. Atomos' "Native" setting on the Ninja V is buggy. It's displaying two different exposure readings for the exact same image depending on whether you're viewing the image from the RECORDING screen, or the PLAYBACK screen.

Here's the RECORDING screen...

Ninja V RECORDING Exposure Reading

Here's what the PLAYBACK screen shows (for the exact same image)...

Ninja V PLAYBACK Exposure Reading

2. What's even more interesting is that the image in Premiere is not only different (obviously the exposure is different but I've corrected that with the Exposure source setting to -2.8) but it seems to have less dynamic range. Note how I've underexposed the lower right patch (compared to the RECORDING reading) but the top right patch on the left chart is way more exposed (again compared to the RECORDING reading).

Here's what Premiere Pro Beta shows (using the exact same LUT on the RAW footage)...

Premiere Pro Beta Exposure Reading with Exposure Setting set to -2.8

So yeah, not sure who's RAW image is right. We have 3 different interpretations of the same exact image with respect to exposure and dynamic range.

[estarkey]

Is there a timeline for AMD GPU support for ProRes RAW?

[Manish_Kulkarni · Accepted solution]

Hi everyone,

ProRes RAW support is now available in the released (non-Beta) versions of:
- After Effects 17.1
- Media Encoder 14.2
- Premiere Pro 14.2
- Premiere Rush 1.5.12

For System Requirements, please see: https://www.adobe.com/go/proresraw

Thank you to all for your feedback during the Feature Development. We will post a new discussion thread when we make further enhancements to ProRes RAW support.

Manish

PS: In case you don't see the above updates, try "Check for updates" from the Help menu of the Creative Cloud Desktop application

[Ryan Sauvé]

Any update on RAW to Log Conversion options in Source Settings? Looking for something similar to what Final Cut has already set up.