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Essential Graphics Media Replace Replacement Error in Premiere 23

Engaged ,
May 03, 2023 May 03, 2023

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Is anyone else getting unusable results when trying to use the Media Replace option in an EG template they have created in AE? Anyone having trouble with videos getting output as stills frames?

This is a first for me.

At a facility I work at, I'm the person who makes Graphics packages for other editors to use on a slew of various projects that we produce. I've been using EG templates for this to create branded lower third names keys etc for a long time, since before EG was created actually. 


I've been cautiously dabbling in media replace options since it was introduced in Beta years ago, but have had too many issues with it. Several years passed and I thought I'd try again, and I'm reporting the errors I've encountered here.

 

I used AE placeholders (missing footage import) set to UHD 4k and built 2 templates around them, and then tried to use them for media replacement in an exported mogort.

 

At a certain point in adding footage within Premiere to the imported EG template , I realized that for some reason certain video elements were getting output as stills ( in one instance, and yet playing back fine in another -as pictured below)

 

Here is a link to the Mogort in question, which is a v2 that includes a tiny h.265 UHD Placeholder file I made the last time I was debugging Media replace. It didnt resolve this current issue.

EG Media Replace errors_5fps 500px.gif

 

Also fun to report is that the "Render and Replace" option produced a different image than the seq/render - The video clip did not render at all, but was blank. (There is no transparency on the video placeholder layers, and so it's not a premultiplied alpha on an RGB file issue)

I'm running CC 23.3 in Premiere and AE, on Windows 10 Enterprise, 64G Ram, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700K CPU @ 4.20GHz

Cheers.

Bug Unresolved
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Editing and playback , Effects , Graphics , Interoperability or 3rd party tools

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correct answers 2 Correct answers

Adobe Employee , May 30, 2023 May 30, 2023

Hi @SquareEyz

 

Me again.. whale... The mystery isn't totally solved but here's the update. 
The first clue was that Trimmed Layers warning that is thrown when trying to re-export your Mogrt. The beginning of the video layer used to create the Media Replacement layer isn't trimmed at the beginning but at the end! Sneaky! 

So! I created a 15-second clip from your original media and tried to Alt-Replace the layers in your comp but that didn't work. 
I added the 15-second clip to a new comp, offset

...

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Adobe Employee , May 25, 2023 May 25, 2023

Sorry, I missed your post. I took a look at the Mogrt. The problem is that you have moved the replacement layers in time. If you move them back to 0 this won't happen.

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Engaged ,
May 09, 2023 May 09, 2023

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@AnnikaKoenig I forgot about our previous corespondence. I'm wondering if you can be of any assistance with the problem I'm having? 


Cheers!


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Adobe Employee ,
May 25, 2023 May 25, 2023

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Sorry, I missed your post. I took a look at the Mogrt. The problem is that you have moved the replacement layers in time. If you move them back to 0 this won't happen.

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Engaged ,
May 30, 2023 May 30, 2023

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Thanks for your help @AnnikaKoenig !

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Engaged ,
May 30, 2023 May 30, 2023

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So the take away here:
Even if you are building a transition with handles and you want to have a clip transition in and "land" at the 2 second mark, all media repace elements (clips) need to actually start at frame zero of your AE timeline. Adjust all effect keyframes etc to serve as the actual "in point" for the clip.
Didn't know that, thought I'd share here.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 30, 2023 May 30, 2023

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@SquareEyz and @AnnikaKoenig

 

This is not the takeaway I want you to have or to amplify. We worked really hard to make offsetting video layers in time in After Effects work in Premiere for Media Replacement. I've added a link to a silly and basic Mogrt that I made where all of the layers that the MR controls are made from are offset by 2 s... in After Effects. I just tested it in PR 23.4 and it worked as expected. 

  • You can offset the layers in AE and PR should respect the staggered start of each clip.
  • Trimming clips will not work because AE only "sees" the beginning of the clip. 
  • Time Remapping and Time-based effects do not work



But offsetting layers that have the In Point at a different time than zero should work. 

I'm looking at your Mogrt now and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. 

Will be back with more info as soon as I get to the bottom of things,

Dacia

- Dacia Saenz, AE Engineering Team

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Adobe Employee ,
May 30, 2023 May 30, 2023

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Hi @SquareEyz

 

Me again.. whale... The mystery isn't totally solved but here's the update. 
The first clue was that Trimmed Layers warning that is thrown when trying to re-export your Mogrt. The beginning of the video layer used to create the Media Replacement layer isn't trimmed at the beginning but at the end! Sneaky! 

So! I created a 15-second clip from your original media and tried to Alt-Replace the layers in your comp but that didn't work. 
I added the 15-second clip to a new comp, offset the layers at 1 and 3 seconds, added the Radial Wipe, Fill and Motion Blur and exported that and VOILA! The video played in Premiere after I swapped the media and played in the offset way as expected. 

I've added a screen recording and the re-created mogrt in the same folder linked in my previous message so you can check it out and see that it works. But! I can't get anything exported out of your comp to work. Why doesn't it work from your comp ...even with the shorter clips? I don't know. 

 

I did a really ugly copy/ paste of your other layers into the new comp with the 15-second clips and shoddy effects made, exported that and that works too! 

dang! what a mess. It looks like you're original comp got borked with that 2:30 min clip / trimmed clip not allowed business.

 

Anywho! There are a lot of working but not very pretty mogrts in here

 

My best advise is to always make the media that you're going to use to make your MR Control as short as the Mogrt is going to be. Even if you add Responsive Time, you'll be better off. 

 

To re-cap: 

  • Offsetting Layers in After Effects is totally supported and OK! 
  • Create short clips of your media and then import them into After Effects because
  • Trimming is not supported 
  • Time Remaps, Time Speeds, Freeze Frames and Time Effects are not supported in Premeire either. 
  • Sometimes you gotta take your layers and put them into a new comp because computers are weird and gremlins abound. 

 

Cheers,

Dacia

 

 

 

 

 

End of Layer is Trimmed.pngTrim Layer Warning.png

- Dacia Saenz, AE Engineering Team

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Engaged ,
May 31, 2023 May 31, 2023

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@DaciaSaenz Thank you for your time debugging this!

... Do you recomend using offline file placeholders instead of my homemade 4k placeholder files- if end trimmig remains an issue? 

I started off with offline placeholders, but durring previous debugging efforts I wanted to confirm playback so built a placeholder with a spinning wheel in the corner.

 

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 01, 2023 Jun 01, 2023

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@SquareEyz

My pleasure!! I love a good mystery to dive into :magnifying_glass_tilted_right:!!

... Do you recomend using offline file placeholders instead of my homemade 4k placeholder files- if end trimmig remains an issue? 

I started off with offline placeholders, but durring previous debugging efforts I wanted to confirm playback so built a placeholder with a spinning wheel in the corner.

 

OOOooo Maybe these offline placeholders are what borked the controls 🤔? I definitely don't recommend that. 
My best recommendation is to make a shorter video for your placeholder. I think the one you had in the Mogrt you shared was 2:30 min long. Thats pretty long for a Mogrt.
I would try one that is 20 seconds and then let me tell you about a couple of tricks that you can consider...

  • The media or layer that is used to create the MR Control defines the Dimensions, Duration, and Frame Rate.
    • If you have a 20 second default placeholder video, but you only want the "time container" of the MR Control to be 15 seconds,
    • then you can create a Precomp with your desired Dimensions, Duration, and Frame Rate
    • nest the 20 second clip in this Precomp 
    • and use the Precomp as the layer that you drag and drop into the EGP to create your MR Control!  
  • The MR Control will only be 15 seconds long because it's defined by the Precomp. 

  • Additionally, if you want time to be more malleable on the Premiere side, you can add Protected Regions to the Primary Comp to make the Mogrt have Responsive Time in Premiere. This means you'll be able to stretch or squish the track item in Premiere. This will make the Media Replacement control's time container shorter or longer-- it doesn't re-time anything but it allows for a longer or shorter replacement clip in Premiere if needed. 


  • Last option... is you can right-click on the MR Control in the EGP in AE and you will get the option to replace a video with a thumbnail or Adobe's default thumbnail. 
    •  this will ensure that you don't bloat your mogrt with a video that takes up a lot of memory.
    • Images inherit the Duration of the Primary Comp so you'll end up with a layer that is the exact length of your Mogrt.  
    • Replace with Thumbnail or Placeolder_MR Control AE.png

 

I know I threw a lot at you, but I hope this is helpful! 

Dacia

- Dacia Saenz, AE Engineering Team

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Engaged ,
Jun 14, 2023 Jun 14, 2023

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@DaciaSaenz 

OK so here is some dubugging I did for some render glitches that this setup has been giving me.

 

Thanks for your helpful recomendations re the placeholder length.

I made a 20 second version, and replaced that in an updated AE/Mogurt.

 

Here is as assembly of the several ways I had to render this in order to get it to work.

 

My takeaway - rendering out of premiere directly (not sending to Media Encoder) may be the safest route to rendering EG templates that seem to be pushing the envelope in someway / causing things to break. This is punitive, in terms of the extra time it takes (while also tying up your workstation for any Premiere editing work), and it must be re rendered EVERY time you output.

My 2nd takaway is that if you don't like this, and are willing to spend the time doing a 'render and replace' within Premiere, remove any nested sequences from yout EG Media replace workflow (and take advantage of the 'open in timeleine', applying stabilization etc within that 'sequence' instead).

 

Best,

David

 

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