Source Timecode incorrect in ProRes mov's

[dmehalik]

Hi all. Having a source timecode issue that seems specific to the combination of the following:

1) ProRes codec

2) mov's that were originally exported from Premiere or After Effects

3) mov's that were made from a 30 fps timeline

Has anyone ever experienced this or know what might be going on?

The same mov's show the correct timecode in Quicktime and Davinci Resolve, but always show the incorrect source timecode when brought into Premiere or AE.

Also, if I export from Premiere as h.264 instead of ProRes, and reimport, the timecode is also correct.

Examples:

In all these examples my Timeline start TC is 1.00.00.00 and in all cases export metadata is checked:

1) Timeline is 23.976. Export ProRes422. TC is correct upon re-import

2) Timeline is 30fps (or 23.976). Export h.264 mp4. TC is correct upon re-import

3) Timeline is 30fps. Export ProRes422. TC is off every time

**also, if I import an ProRes mov that I know was not created recently (I'm now in Pr 25.1.0) the TC's are correct

and, if I import a ProRes mov that I know was not created in Pr/AE (like transcodes from a DIT from a shoot) the TC's are correct.

Any ideas??

•Adobe Premiere 25.1.0

•MacOS 12.6.7

•MacStudio (2022) M1 Ultra 128GB memory

[R Neil Haugen]

A crucial data bit ... what is off, and by how much? Also, I'm wondering if this is a drop-frame/non-drop frame issue ... probably not, but maybe?

[dmehalik]

Thanks for the reply @R Neil Haugen .  Well, I can't imagine that it would be a drop frame issue because I'm working in a 30fps timeline and am exporting 30fps.---not 29.97, but maybe I don't have a thorough enough understanding. 

In terms of "how much" I had thought that everything was consistently off my 3sec17fr... but after doing a lot of tests today, it seems to be inconsistent.

One thing I did learn after posting this though:

If I "get info" on the file in Premiere, it shows the TC correctly--- even though the TC is incorrect in the source and record monitor overlays.

Attached is a screen grab from such a file.  ProRes mov with timecode burn exported from Premiere in a timeline set to start at the same time.  Resolve shows correct TC, Quicktime shows correct TC, even "get info" in Premiere shows correct TC, but the source/record monitor overlays are wrong... and if I throw a "metadata timecode effect" on, it's also wrong.

 

[R Neil Haugen]

That discrepancy looks like either a 29.97->30fps issue, or drop-frame->non-drop-frame.

I'm not a great expert on DF/non-DF issues, other than I've hit them a couple times and they were a major puzzlement to sort out.

I've also had to work over 29.97 to 30 "even" time issues.

So that's why my questions are as they are.

[dmehalik]

yikes, well if that 's the case, I def. don't have the know-how to fix it.  I think I'll just have to work around the issue.  Thanks for your time!

[R Neil Haugen]

@Warren Heaton @Richard M Knight  ... you folks got comments/suggestions?

[IanB_360]

Hi @dmehalik 
Do you have a file and Project file you can share with us? The team would like to take a look and see what you are finding. So what I am to understand is that the Source timecode display from your sequence is not matching the true source timecode embedded in your camera files correct?

Here to help

Ian

[dmehalik]

Hi, Ian! Thanks so much for reaching out! I’d love to!
I’m putting out another fire at work right now, but as soon as I have a few
minutes, I’ll collect a project to my dropbox for you. Look for it later
this afternoon.
Thanks!

[PII removed by moderator]

[dmehalik]

Hi @IanB_360  Please find collected project HERE

I've outlined, step by step what's happening within the project.

Thank you so much for taking a look!!

[Warren Heaton]

@dmehalik 

What are your Start Time settings for your Sequences?
Pictured: Premiere Pro Start Time options dialog

[dmehalik]

@Warren Heaton 1.00.00.00

[IanB_360]

Taking a look at this now.

Ian

[dmehalik]

Thanks so much, @IanB_360 .  I really appreciate you taking the time!

[IanB_360]

Can you share a source file that you have that is not showing the correct source time code?  I will do what your steps are and see if I can recreate the same thing. 

1) Timeline is 23.976. Export ProRes422. TC is correct upon re-import

2) Timeline is 30fps (or 23.976). Export h.264 mp4. TC is correct upon re-import

3) Timeline is 30fps. Export ProRes422. TC is off every time

In each case what was the FPS of each file in the sequences you were exporting? I am going to try this with apples to apples so 23.976 in a 23.976 sequence and 30 for 30 . And what you are saying is that the Export out of a 30 fps sequence on a 30 fps clip will result in an export that when brought back in to Premiere does not match the timecode of that same sequence you exported the file from? Is that about right?

Here to Help
Ian

[dmehalik]

@IanB_360 

Thanks again for following up.  I was a little confused by your last question, so I'm going to try to clarify my issue.  You said:

"And what you are saying is that the Export out of a 30 fps sequence on a 30 fps clip will result in an export that when brought back in to Premiere does not match the timecode of that same sequence you exported the file from?"

And that is exactly correct.  The problem is only for 30fps ProRes Exports out of Premiere.  It does not matter what the frame rate of the source file is.  I can bring a 30 fps clip into my project or a 23.976fps clip into my project... If I export from a 30fps timeline and re-import that export into Premiere, the TC will appear wrong.  The problem does NOT occur in a 23.976 timeline or a 24fps timeline.  For example, in the project I sent you (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pbziyx34vxpnd9a0qie79/Copied_TimecodeTestForAdobe.zip?rlkey=qg66si70w...), I exported a mov from a 30fps timeline.  Upon re-import the TC is wrong.  However, if I were to duplicate that same sequence and change the frame rate to 24fps or 23.976 fps and export/reimport, the problem does not occur and the TC is correct.

I am mostly a commercial editor, and almost always work with 23.976 or 24fps timelines and have never had a TC issue.  However, I'm currently working on a project for a museum with all 30fps deliverables... and I am seeing this problem throughout--- Again, the source framerate of my media does not matter, only when the timeline framerate is 30fps do the problems start.