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CC loses links to render files?

Contributor ,
Jun 28, 2013 Jun 28, 2013

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Render an area, save the project, close the program and load the project, and the previously rendered area comes up red again.  Alternately, close the project and reload it, and you may or may not be asked to relink.

Anyone else seeing this?  The render files are still there; but the links are apparently lost -- and irrevocably, once you close program.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 03, 2017 Aug 03, 2017

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I'm not having any problems with slow rendering. Some are, some aren't. Some are getting rather fast rendering, so assuming your experience is what everyone gets just isn't accurate.

If you're getting massively slow rendering, that's not annoying. It's a huge ... pisser. And I do understand that.

To get best performance out of PrPro takes a bit of care in the setup of the computer, and as Bill Gehrke notes in his PPBM discussions, often some tuning of the computer to operated efficiently. In another thread, a user showed his Task Manager dialog, with 139 processes running. Bill noted that he's got his machine setup so that only around 60 are running, and that frees up a ton of CPU processing time in the way those things work. I've seen people work with Bill on tuning their machines get a vastly improved performance.

But I've also seen others where even with "good" hardware and some work at tuning, they can't seem to shake some lag someplace.

It varies.

Neil

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Engaged ,
Aug 04, 2017 Aug 04, 2017

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"Turn the input on and off a couple of times and it'll lose links..."

Well... ...Ok.  That's not new.  IF you keep turning a track on and off, it no longer sees the entire sequence as rendered because you've made multiple changes to the entire sequence.  Plain and simple.

"useless for projects longer than 2 minutes..."

That last one made me laugh.  I've tried vegas and Cyberlink with clips and created cuts, along with AVID, though I'm not fluent in it.  Bottom line: I work multicam and several hour long projects in Premiere with few issues.  You develop problems when you're so focused on rushing through the work that you forget to prep.  I know it sounds like a load of wash, but try creating "Clip Sequences" and render those.  I subclip, color correct, and run off proxies of the subclip sequences using the queuing in the export dialog.  It's not exactly one operation, but it does allow me to aplly a few things right away, without trouble, and it renders out fast.  I then plop them right where I need them in my main sequence, create the effects, then copy and paste the effect into the clip sequence, and render it out in AME back to the same file it was at before, then I continue on down the line.  It saves time by rendering effects outside of Premiere so I keep working.

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Engaged ,
Aug 25, 2017 Aug 25, 2017

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So you RENDER and hope to see the effect when it isn't a preview render effect?  This means it won't render into your previews as it still processes the underlying frame as long as it is turned on... ...It's not a cop out.  It's the result of some extended testing.  I turned off the warp, rendered to green, close and open, everything is fine, still green in most cases, occasionally yellow and "conforming" message but I attributed that to audio of other than pcm formatting.

In order to BURN IN your warp, you have to EXPORT the sequence out.  That is the only way.

Cop out... ...lol.  That slang usually means that somebody doesn't want to spend time on what their "copping" out of.  I spent some time on it, tested it, found more caveats, and even describe a workflow to work around it.

Can I be honest with you?  I've never found much to be gained from working only one shot and then rendering previews.  I nest everything, cut in the effects, and export the shot through AME wherever possible, then move on to the next area.  When it's done, it gets imported to my project, I drag it to a video layer above my effects section and have a full format view.  I get to keep working, and my system can render several sections while I keep going.  With some audio effects, I like rendering a preview, as it's faster and efficient.  Also, I've never gotten a warp to work well for longer than 5s of footage.  You're better off with Twixtor which burns in each algorithm it uses in a set order rather than using a primary algorithm to determine the order (like the warp stabilizer does).  If you use compressed input to begin with, this problem is compounded.  When exporting, it needs to decompress, then read then adjust then recompress.  I work with nesting, but when I nest, I replace with HQ before the export and output a compressed visual.  It's still fast for use, but I rip out an HQ as well, for use later.  Once I've finished cutting, I only use HQ footage, then I render out.  It may take a pile of space, but the render time is about 1\10th to 1\30th of the compressed to compressed time.  Hey if it was same in to same out, without color correction or warp, it would be the blink of an eye, as only a few frames would change; but I apply at least a few changes to every frame, especially in color treating.

And FINALLY:

It doesn't LOSE render files.  It's simply doesn't create a readable render (It's flagged). It's not meant as a burn in preview, it's meant to be the last entry due to the resources it has to use.  When you render it out, it looks fine.  Close and reopen, and the Warp is now overlayed onto a set of frames that are rendered but not readable, so it reverts to using footage.  Turn it off.  If nothing changes (the red is still there),leave it off, save, close, and reopen.  You should see green or yellow.  Green is a rendered preview, yellow is footage only.  Trying to leave the warp on when rendering doesn't work.  It REQUIRES full footage information, not previews, and its a BETA effect that tags any renders unreadable.  Whining that it shouldn't require original footage or the initial testing that defines it's function doesn't change the way the algorithm functions.  The algorithm was built that way.  Deal with it or don't use it.  Beta is beta.  Why is it still in beta?  Take a wild guess.  Inconsistent output could be the reason.  Maybe they're still working on the algorithm.  Either way, it's still BETA.  It might not function perfectly.

However, there are ways of working around it...

After effects can be used as an intermediary.  When doing so, that engine will handle preview rendering, which allows for PRECOMP renders, meaning it will render out a compressed or lesser quality version if you set that, or a full quality effect in the AE engine, and you won't need to rely on premiere for this effect.  It will function with whatever footage you give it, including an entire sequence from premiere, and link a single file to active memory rather than a multi-stream set like premiere does.  The effect in the premiere engine is in BETA, but in AE it's actually functioning more fully.  It's almost like exporting it, but it allows you to make changes to the original sequence without rendering in premiere, it will work only on the memory of the AE engine to pass your video back (warning; if you don't pre-render again to afix the changes it may slow the video coming back).  You'll still have to render your warp again, but it will be done behind your premiere work, so you can keep working on other sections.  It's much more efficient in workflow, but I wouldn't pass too many sequences at once, it will slow your roll with each set you pass.  Exporting via queuing in AME is still the most efficient way to work this, as you can queue up a long list of exports, but limit how many are actually rendering at any time, and you can add a proxy and HQ render so you can prep for output.  As an alt, you can pass the export from AME to AE, loop it back to your premiere, and then adjust whatever you want in the original footage, using the export function to get a preview, and the COMP from AE to place an AEengine version of the video back into your sequencing.  The AE engine will read the current file data for passing to premiere just make sure you export to the same file name.  I use the frame numbers and then place over the top, which gives me yellow, but I know it's "Footage Effects" so it plays back beautifully.  I've also applied only the warp in AE, and effects in premiere, then rendered.  This works effectively.  AE handles the warp in its engine (which is active through premiere every time I open the project with a comp in it), and any other effects I apply work as if applied to full footage.

Why#2:

AE and PPRO have different rendering engines and architectures.  While similar, they aren't perfectly alike.  However they have frameserver functions built in that allow their media cache data to feed into each other.  Their plugins can function within each other because of this.  Video can be passed between their render engines.

PPro frames to AE render, or AE frames to PPro render.  They feed each others' playback as if from footage.  That means they can each take advantage of plugins and tools from the other simply by reading an XML file, linking the data, and passing it through the engine of the other. 

I would love for this to be a burn in effect, but it's an overpowered algorithm--overcomplicated at best, logically bandjaxed at worst--and you didn't pay extra for it.  It came as a BETA and is still in BETA as far as premiere goes.  That means it's only for TESTING in premiere.  If you want an effect that's burn in, try re:vision or redgiant.  Their algorithms occur in stages that are set and burn in, so turning sections on or off is easy, and each section uses the original frame data, without any adjustments from other sections.  They've been around longer, and they are fully functional in all adobe apps.  I highly recomend you look into them if you absolutlely need this effect for professional (as in PAID) work.  Otherwise, work around the problem, and submit an email to support (which will probably point you back here).  Of course, you could use AE as I suggested above...  Which is what the full algorithm was originally built for (obvious from functionality as it worked in AE first and premiere is still showing issues mainly with respect to rendering which points to some issues with the plug in the render engine).

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 29, 2017 Nov 29, 2017

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I think I might have found something! (THIS IS FOR NESTED WARP PROBLEM) if you double click on the nested clip, it takes you to the nested sequence. Put the warp stabilizer effect on the clip in the nested sequence and an error comes up. Push the undo command and go to the bottom right corner to disable the error message. After you push clear close the error message window (if it didn't already close) and go back to the main sequence. For me this magically made the clip rendered green as it should be! Hope it works for you!

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Contributor ,
Nov 17, 2018 Nov 17, 2018

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Just FYI, I have tried this and it triples the rendering time of the clip. If you change the speed of the clip and nest it, then add all your effects to the nested section in your sequence, the effect render fairly fast. But, when you place the warp stabilizer or other effects inside the nest, the section takes 2-3 times longer to render.  This sucks!  It may be worth it to only have to render once, but if you make a change to the clip, then you have to wait forever again.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Explorer ,
Jul 10, 2019 Jul 10, 2019

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Hey guys!

Absolutely randomly I have just found a strange solution or something like that!

At least it worked for me!

Just disable (or RE-ENABLE) checkbox "Scale to frame size" from the "problematic clips" that lost their preview files. This checkbox magically returns these preview files...

Its not the best solution and I do not understand how it works but you may try to experiment with this

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Explorer ,
Jul 10, 2019 Jul 10, 2019

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The other possible Solution is to render effects in to out first and only after that make render in to out

I have just tried with two  massive projects and it worked perfect - maybe it will help to somebody

And if you see some red bars after restart program just try to enable and re-enable problem clips  - they should be reconnected

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Explorer ,
Jul 10, 2019 Jul 10, 2019

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Damn, it really works! Tried almost 5 projects

Hint - instead of making all clips enable and re-enable separately you may make all media offline in your project and relink them immediately

It works.

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New Here ,
Oct 20, 2019 Oct 20, 2019

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I finally found the solution 

right click on clip which you rendered but shows red bar 

check option scale to frame size and click it

That's all

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 26, 2020 Nov 26, 2020

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it doesn't work!!

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Explorer ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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I have the same issue but my issue is even worse than this. I can literally see just completed clips go from being rendered back to either the yellow or red bar above the same clips just seconds after they were just rendered. In addition, once I get some rendered clips stablized, and I move further down the timeline to render the next clip, once one that is done the clips earlier in the timeline that have been rendered are now needing to be rendered all over again. I'm using version 22.2.0. This did not happen prior to updating to v. 22.2.0.  This is driving me absolutely bonkers. I have wasted three days chasing this dog tail and it is really ticking me off.

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Community Expert ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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Where are your Media Cache files located?

Are they on an external drive?

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Explorer ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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Internal drive

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LEGEND ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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And past PeruBob's query, do you have OneDrive or some other auto-backup service operating on your computer?

 

Neil

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Explorer ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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no

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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Sorry J,

What's the codec you are using for Video Previews in Sequence Settings?

 

Thanks,
Kevin

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Explorer ,
Feb 17, 2022 Feb 17, 2022

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Hi Kevin,

 

Looks like its MPEG I-Frame by default?

Also, I should mention that this issue first occured when I updated to Premiere 22.2.0 and also imported an SRT file for Spanish subtitles and laid it into the timeline. I have now reverted back to version 22.1.2 and the rendering issue seems to have gone away. In a related rendering issue however that I have been dealing with for some time now for this edit project is the rendering of clips using the Warp Stabalizer effect. No matter what I do if there is a dissolve from or into a clip with Warp Stabalizer I get that nasty looking Rendering Error message. I even tried doing "manual" dissolves using the opacity tool and it still wont render. The only work around has been to replace the dissolve with a dip to white or dip to black.

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 18, 2022 Feb 18, 2022

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LATEST

Hi jfortier,

Thanks for the info.

quote

It looks like it's MPEG I-Frame by default?

 

Ah, OK. I see you are working with an XDCAM sequence preset.

quote

I have now reverted to version 22.1.2, and the rendering issue seems to have gone away.

 

OK, great. I would stay in the version you are using then. You may want to delete the media cache and video preview files before beginning a project in the new version.

quote

No matter what I do if there is a dissolve from or into a clip with Warp Stabilizer I get that nasty looking Rendering Error message.

 

I hope I understand your problem. If so, the process of rendering and playing back the clip with specific video effects applied to it is interfering with displaying your video transition. This is all because of the mathematical order of operations, AKA the render order pipeline. You can solve the issue by nesting the clip with its effect then applying the transition. Note that you have to trim out extra media within the nest to get the appropriate handles for the transitions. 

 

I hope the explanation helps.

 

Thanks,
Kevin

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