Clean Media Cache Database with projects on NAS

[swest@wboc]

We have 6 editors working on projects stored on a high speed NAS RAID.  We have the Media Cache DB on our C drives and the preview and render files set to "same as project folder."  Given that any editor might need to open any project, my first question is: are those folders in the ideal locations for our workflow?

Since 2017 we've had our media cache DB set to auto delete unused files on a regular basis.  We figured it was managed, but we've been having a lot of trouble with Premiere lately: severe playback lag, click lag, white program monitor, black program monitor, cuda render failures and today I was just reading an email when I saw a black video clip (the kind generated by Premiere) turn to media pending mustard in the program monitor.  The playhead was just sitting idle on it when it happened.  I decided we should revisit the media cache cleaning options.

So, how does Premiere determine if a DB file is "unused?"  Is it reading all assets in EVERY project on our NAS?

It seems to take hours to complete.  Can we hit cancel to continue more cleaning later or will we loose all progress so far?

Does the lengthy cleaning process indicate that Premiere has been unable to fulfill our auto cleaning settings?

If so, could that have anything to do with our NAS?

Thanks Everyone!

Steve West, WBOC TV Salisbury, MD

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi swest,

Sorry for the issues. Hope we can help.

We have 6 editors working on projects stored on a high speed NAS RAID. 
We have the Media Cache DB on our C drives
Preview and render files set to "same as project folder." 

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Can we get specs on those 6 computers? Are they all the same spec? Are they all on the same clock? Are the clocks accurately working and are all machines in sync? Macs? PCs? What? 

How about some specs on your NAS. Not all are alike and many are not meant to serve up video. There are some from QNAP and others that do have good capability, but in the trenches, you see a lot of dodgy setups. You know? So, how many drives? What kind of drives? What is the manufacturer of the NAS? What kind of connectivity do you have? What kind of speeds per video stream are you getting now? Are they different from speeds you've measured in the past?

What kind of media are you operating with? Is it conformed ProRes? XDCAM? Or is it H.264 4K? Overall, this post is short on info. Can you provide it please?

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my first question is: are those folders in the ideal locations for our workflow?

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Yes, you want each node to carry its own media cache and database. You do not want either of these to be on your remote storage. While it is possible, it is not recommended in setups like yours.

We've been having a lot of trouble with Premiere lately: severe playback lag, click lag, white program monitor, black program monitor, cuda render failures.

So, your setup worked in a previous version, but you are having performance troubles now. What kind of troubleshooting have you tried so far? You haven't mentioned anything you've tried so far. Can you let us know, please?

In my opinion, even with standalone systems, you should delete the media cache and database when updating the nodes to new versions of Premiere Pro. You should allow enough time in order for the caching to take place after updating. If it takes a long time, do it over a weekend. I would also trash preferences in these nodes on updating, as well as refresh any folder permissions on Adobe folders, that last one is a really important one if you have had any major updates to the OS.

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So, how does Premiere determine if a DB file is "unused?"  Is it reading all assets in EVERY project on our NAS? It seems to take hours to complete.

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I believe it is counted as soon as it is used for playback. Not sure why a single machine might be needing to cache files it is not using in a project. Something else might be going on with the way you've arranged your projects.

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Can we hit cancel to continue more cleaning later or will we loose all progress so far?

Does the lengthy cleaning process indicate that Premiere has been unable to fulfill our auto cleaning settings? If so, could that have anything to do with our NAS?

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Yes, you can cancel the process without penalty; pretty sure about that. Besides, media cache is available at the Finder/Explorer level and you can inspect it and delete it manually, as well.

I have no idea why your media cache keeps needing to regenerate, the clocks could be out of sync generating change when someone opens an identical project. It could be many things. You'll need to tinker on that one, I'm afraid. I can try and help you. It sounds like your staff could be retrained to use Productions so that only certain projects are open and closed and there is some control how the various caches are interacted with. We have a PDF on the whole workflow, actually, if you're interested.

I'm on my day off, though, but I did want to let you know that I saw your post and hope to help. 

I do ask for your patience with me, though. I'll do my best to get more info for you. In the meantime, you may want to open a case with support via phone or chat for more support options. They are open until 7PM PST this evening, then on Monday at 7AM. I'll be back in the office shortly thereafter. In the mid 2000s, I used to be an engineer at a large post facility in Burbank, with a 30 node Mac setup and XSAN (old school!) so I hope I can assist.

Cheers,
Kevin

[swest@wboc]

Thanks Kevin!  I appreciate your insights on Premiere's cleaning function.  That alone gets us started.  You may have misunderstood one of my questions though...

So, how does Premiere determine if a DB file is "unused?"  Is it reading (during cleaning that is) all assets in EVERY project on our NAS? It seems to take hours to complete.

I was just asking about the cleaning function, not the creation of DB files for an open project.  But, perhaps this is moot considering your advice is to delete ALL of them, not just the unused files.  We dont seem to have a problem with the database files as it pertains to opening recent projects.  It only takes a few seconds for most projects.  The only time it takes longer is if an editor opens a project that they have never opened on their computer before.  In those cases it could take serveral minutes depending on the size of the project.

I will get our IT to chime in with network specs.  I can tell you we are on v15.0 on Windows10 Pro, our newest processors are i7s, newest graphics cards are Nvidia 2070s and our oldest (960s) have fallen off your supported list.  That last point would concern me a lot if we werent having any problems on the new machines, but we are.

And your guess was absolutely right:  this config worked well until last year.  I will try to get you some more info.  Thanks very much for shooting us some thoughts on your day off!

Steve

[swest@wboc]

Kevin,

This is the NAS info I have received from our IT dept so far.  We still need to know the connection speed.

Server model: Supermicro

Drives: 26 8TB drives, not sure the brand but we usually get Seagate IronWolf

Software: FreeNAS

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 1.90 GHz

RAM: 32GB

As far as I'm aware the NAS and each of you are plugged in to the same switch. There is a fiber connection running to that switch. I don't have any information on speeds at the moment.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi,

I don't have an exact answer as to why your caching process seems to be taking so long. That said, I'm not sure if your editors are siloed or are working on a shared or Team Project with shared assets, but the "Productions" workflow could work out better for your team. My thinking is that Projects or "bins" (in the Avid sense) might be able to retain data which could in turn reduce the amount of time necessary to get your other projects on your system running optimally.

If you are having other performance issues, especially since updating Premiere Pro, make sure that you are fully deleting media cache. First choose File > Close All Projects. Then choose Preferences > Media Cache and delete ALL media cache. This deletes media cache from the current projects as well. This assures you have no dirty media cache after you update Premiere Pro. I didn't find out your media type, but if it worked before, hopefully troubleshooting can help you now.

You may want to have a Video VAR contract with your enterprise to optimize your workflow further and to see if they might have any other hardware recommendations that could help streamline your operation. 

Hope that advice help you.

Thanks,
Kevin