Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hello,
I use both Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve.
I’ve noticed that exporting Apple ProRes from Premiere Pro causes color and IRE value shifts, while Resolve does not have this issue.
The first and second images show a comparison between the original Canon MXF file and the Apple ProRes 4444 export from Resolve.
The third and fourth images show a comparison between the same Canon MXF file and the Apple ProRes 4444 export from Premiere Pro.
If you overlay the image pairs, the exports from Resolve appear nearly identical to the original, at least when examining them on the scopes. However, the ProRes exported from Premiere Pro displays a darker IRE value and a slight red color shift.
The Canon MXF and exported Apple ProRes 4444 should be identical in scope—just like the exports from Resolve.
Does anyone know how to fix this issue? I contacted Adobe customer support, shared all the relevant data, and worked with them for three days. In the end, they concluded that there was no way to solve this issue.
Please help if you have any insights.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hey @kazuyaf88705976 ,
Perhaps because you're a new user but we don't see any images in the post. Could you try sharing them again?
Furthermore, did you bring the prores file back into Premiere Pro to compare? Or were you using an external video player.
Also to help the developers reading this thread better understand the issue could you share your system info and Premiere Pro version?
Is the problem only present when exporting to ProRes 4444? Or is it in ProRes 422 flavors as well. What about other formats like H.264/5.
Lastly, what happens if you grab a still frame of a Canon MXF clip, put it back in the timeline and export that to ProRes in both Premiere and Resolve. Does that present the same data? This could help track down where the issue happens further.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Shebbe has the questions we'd need to puzzle this out.
Just one more question ... which export option were you using in Resolve? In very specfic detail.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hello,
I was about to prepare the photographs, but my Premiere Pro license expired yesterday, so I’m no longer able to export images.
I also noticed that footage showing no color shift in Resolve on Mac actually had a color shift when viewed in Resolve on Windows. Conversely, footage exported from Premiere on Windows didn’t show any shift when viewed on Windows.
I’ve realized the safest approach is to avoid converting my footage to ProRes until I decide which machine I’ll use to deliver the final product.
It’s probably an issue related to the combination of the graphics card and operating system—it doesn’t seem to be a problem exclusive to Premiere.
Since I don’t have a way to delete the post, I’ll leave it as is. However, I’ll revisit this topic and ask the same question again once I reactivate my account.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
That sounds like the problem caused by Apple using a non-standard display transform gamma in their ColorSync utility. Which is 1.96 rather than the specified 2.4.
On the Mac, IF you have a Reference modes option, set it to HDTV and you get a correct display transform.
If not, try VLC or Potplayer, neither of which allows ColorSync to control the image. See if it's the same in that player as Premiere. You can do that with the files you've already created that had this issue.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Will the Mac viewing transform affect exports when using Apple ProRes 4444 in Premiere Pro?
I switched to the HDTV color profile, but the screen is way too dim, and I don’t have any control over the screen brightness. I’d prefer to avoid using that mode if possible.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
I'll explain why, which takes some space. For the short skinny, how you might prefer to set things, go to the bottom of the post.
----
The specification for working with Rec.709 is extensive, and includes amazing details for working in image correction. And so to work in full specs, it includes the monitor and room brightness levels.
The specified monitor setup is sRGB primaries, D65 white point, a power-law curve essentially similar to gamma 2.4, and a screen brightness of white at 100 nits.
Then they have the viewing situation specced also. The environment is a pretty dark though not quite blackened room, I don't recall the general lux level, but it's pretty dim. Any wall or surface visible to the worker when working must be totally neutral gray, the value of the paint specified. There must be a 'bias light' between the monitor and the wall so that there is a very small lightened area of an exact amount around the monitor from the working position.
And of course, all lights in the room must be D65. So it's dark enough most colorists need a small light on their worktop ... and that's got to be a pretty darn dim D65 one.
So working for total evaluation of the image is supposed to be done in that darkened space. And in that darkened space, the 100 nits screen is quite bright enough.
But ... working in a normally lit room, the specs for the monitor go to essentially gamma 2.2.
So for actual image verification, you need to be in a "semi-darkened room" ... funsies. And yes, my working environment is quite tight to the specs. If I go full colorist mode.
For most people, the working area is not going to be that dark, and working with the screen at gamma 2.2 is better as it visually lifts the shadows a bit for you. However, from the extensive testing that resulted in those specs, it is known that in that brighter room, it is not a good environment for color/hue judgements. Especially color saturation.
Ergo the requirement for full-on colorist work to be done in the darker room.
So this is a bit tricky to get setup at first, and colorists have always had an issue since flat-screens replaced CRTs with clients looking at the image on their screens. Most of the many I work with have specs in their contrast about even how judgements can be accepted.
Such as either from in-room work with them, or now, quite a few use specific iPad models that they own and mod the screen settings so they get fairly close visual match to their reference monitor. Their contract says change requests or orders must be done in-room or from viewing only on that iPad in a fairly dark room.
I hope that covers the problems adequately.
Also, note, no two screens can possibly show the identical image!
Due to the vagaries of manufacturing tolerances no two pixel elements will be exactly the same in micro amounts, let alone the colored filters that are placed over them in a pattern so that the camera can be tricked into creating color by complex math, or ... the diodes that produce color in screens.
This is part of why Grade 1 Reference Screens (which is a very strict specification itself) are so expensive. The makers of screens measure every screen coming off the line, and the most accurate ones are sold for a vastly higher price than the ones with more variance.
Grade 1 Reference monitors are the highest, tightest tolerance; expensive computer and TV makes come next, on down the line to the cheapo monitors and TVs.
But even those spendy Reference monitors, two "identical" models side by side, calibrated with the same expensive photo spectrometers, given both a calibration and a profile pass, fed images from the same breakout device from BlackMagic or AJA, so in their profile passes the charts produced by the software are virtually identical ... and yet ...
With a high-end group of viewers, experience pros, in a darkened room ... they will see differences between those two monitors.
Now ... throw in the variables of cheaper screens, what the OS and screen makers do to "enhance the viewing experience" ... user settings ... and the variablity of the lighting that the user views things in.
And beginning colorists are told this dictum:
NO one, on any screen by any deliverable method (including network broadcast, streaming, or theatrical release) ... will ever see exactly what you saw while grading. It is not physically possible.
So why the specs? Well, if you follow those in doing your grading, then, in relative terms!!!! ... your outputs will look similar to other professionally produced media on any screen.
There's another phrase ... "You can't fix gramma's green TV." Truth.
So try this: set the Mac monitor to Reference mode HDTV, but in Premiere, use the viewing option for gamma 2.2.
This will probably give you more what you would like to see.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hello, thank you for the comment.
I understand that no two monitors display the exact same image, so I don’t mind if there are slight color or gamma shifts when viewing on different displays.
The issue I’m facing is with exported ProRes 4444 files. Since it's supposed to be a lossless codec, the RGB waveform shouldn't change at the data level. At the very least, when viewing the same footage in the same software on the same monitor, the waveform of the original Canon MXF and the exported ProRes should match. However, the waveform of the ProRes file is noticeably altered, which I believe is a problem.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
You didn't answer my first question, which was what export settings you used from Resolve?
Color Management has so many variables now it can take some time to nail differences.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hey there,
I believe what you may be experiencing is video and full levels mismatches. I forgot the exact details on where which goes wrong but Resolve definitely has issues. Inside Resolve you can actually correct any mismatches by going into the clip attributes and setting it to Video or Full instead of Auto.
Adobe will only detect from file and scale accordingly, the user does not have any control over interpretation. When you write APR444 from Adobe I believe it always writes Video levels eventhough the expected formatting for writing RGB instead of YUV is full levels.
Anyways, try a manual export out of Mac Resolve and Windows Resolve with data levels set to Full and another to Video and see what happens in both Premier and Resole on both Mac and Win to see where it goes wrong.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hi @kazuyaf88705976 - Thanks for submitting your bug report. We need a few more details to try to help with the issue.
Please see, How do I write a bug report?
What version of Premiere Pro are you using?
As others have said please provide reproducible steps for your issue.
In the Lumetri Panel > Settings you may have different viewer gamma settings set so that is why your exports look different. Here is a helpx document Why do my colors look washed out
Your colors may not look washed out, but same concepts.
Sorry for the frustration.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Good catch.
Yea, Premiere doesn't have user controls for changing the full/legals level of a clip. They do have Lumetri presets that can do this, there is a folder of them in the Effects bin.
They have specific ones for 8 & 10 bit, going both ways. So you can drop a full to legal or legal to full effect on a clip to change that.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Issue – Color shift while exporting Apple ProRes 4444 from Premiere Pro
Steps to reproduce – Import Canon CLog2 footage into Premiere Pro, export as Apple ProRes 4444, import the ProRes back into Premiere. Then compare original footage and ProRes 4444 in Lumetri Scope.
Expected result – Original Canon footage and Apple ProRes 4444 from Premiere should have identical waveform in Lumetri Scope.
Actual result – IRE and RGB values altered in the Lumetri Scope, can observe the difference by simply looking at it in the viewer.
Adobe Premiere Pro version – Since my license expired I do not have access to check, but probably version 24.6. I used Premiere Pro 2024 latest version.
Operating system – macOS Sonoma 14.6.1 Macbook Pro M1 Pro
Video format – MXF CLog2 from Canon C70, converted into Apple ProRes 4444 in Premiere Pro. Video file is available: Sample Footage
I already posted, but my license is expired and I was about to delete this post. However, there is no such functionality. I will ask the same question again next time I reactivate my account. So I will just report the bug rather than solve it now.
You can perform the same test by exporting sample Canon MXF footage from Premiere Pro as ProRes 4444, and import the ProRes back into Premiere. Since I was not able to get identical results, my export setting is useless. I rather want to know the setting which can successfully produce identical results with ProRes export from Premiere.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hello @jamieclarke – I was also thinking this might be a gamma-related issue, but since the problem appears in the Lumetri Scope, it's probably not related to viewing gamma. Also, the footage does not look washed out with my display.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
@R Neil Haugen - Looks like I missed one of your posts — here are the settings screenshots from Resolve.
Regarding the comparison in Resolve on Mac, the MXF and ProRes 4444 files almost perfectly matched in the scopes. However, the results might differ when importing and comparing the two files in Resolve on Windows.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
HI @kazuyaf88705976 - Can you add jamiec@adobe.com to your frame project. I'm wondering if you are seeing a ProRes bug that we are working on.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
@Shebbe – Yes, I was also thinking that video levels might be causing the problem. I previously tested all three options: Auto, Video, and Full. In the end, Auto and Full looked identical, so I ended up using the Auto footage in the provided sample clip. However, importing Full into Premiere Pro might produce a different result. I might need to test the Full export next time I reactivate my Premiere Pro account.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
@jamieclarke
Sorry, this link should work. Sample Footage
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hi @kazuyaf88705976 - The link works but you need to add my account to the project in the right hand corner there should be the option to add members.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
@jamieclarke - Hey, I’ve added your email address, does the link work for you now?
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hi @kazuyaf88705976 - I have received your file and followed your steps in version 25.2, but I do not see the Lumetri values changing. There may have been a bug in version 24.6 that was fixed.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hello @jamieclarke - for some reason, when I import the exported footage into Premiere on Windows, the scopes don't shift as much as they did in Premiere on Mac.
However, when I compare the exact same footage in Resolve on Windows, the scopes show more movement than they did in Resolve on Mac.
When I apply a Phantom LUT, any shift in the scopes becomes more obvious—especially in the white balance.
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hi @kazuyaf88705976 - Are you saying you have exported your sequence to ProRes 4444 in 25.2 and are still seeing this issue?
Copy link to clipboard
Copied
Hello @jamieclarke - No, I did not encounter the issue in Premiere Pro 24 on Windows, but I did see the issue in Premiere Pro 24 on Mac. If Adobe fixed the issue in version 25.2, I’ll need to test it once I reactivate my account.
If you have DaVinci Resolve, I’d also be curious to know whether importing both the original MXF and the exported ProRes 4444 from Premiere 25.2 results in a perfect waveform match or not.