Convert simple stereo project to 5.1 surround

Participant ,
Nov 15, 2018 Nov 15, 2018

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I have a project where the audio is simple stereo.  There's dialogue, music, ambient and some sound effects, but it's all contained in the standard stereo L/R setup.

I'd like to spend some time working with surround sound - putting the sound effects, for example, in the Ls/Rs channels, adding some effects panning in the surround channels, that sort of thing. 

Is it possible to convert a project that is already set up with standard stereo sound to 5.1 surround, or do I have to start an entirely new project?

Thanks.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 15, 2018 Nov 15, 2018

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You wouldn't have to use a new project, you might need to make a new sequence.

There's a resource for audio (and everything else!) in PrPro, that gives the best info I've seen on using audio with multiple types and formats, setting up presets, modifying sequences, all of that. Jarle Leirpoll's book, The Cool Stuff in Premiere Pro, around 1200 page  e-book. Available via a link from his site ... and I don't get a buck, I bought my own, which is always on my tablet by me editing station ... the entire program is covered in detail.

PremierePro.net - discover the cool stuff in Premiere Pro

Neil

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Participant ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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Neil, I'm actually aware of that book - as of a couple weeks ago - but hadn't bought it yet.  Thanks for the positive feedback on it.  I'll definitely take a closer look.  The audio chapter looks very interesting.

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Guide ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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"I have a project where the audio is simple stereo.  There's dialogue, music, ambient and some sound effects, but it's all contained in the standard stereo L/R setup."

I based my answer on your initial comment above.

You then said "Is it possible to convert a project that is already set up with standard stereo sound to 5.1 surround, or do I have to start an entirely new project"

So the assumption was that you wanted to use the current stereo project and make it a 5.1 project using just 2 channels of sound.

I did in fact read your question carefully.

"Do you have an actual answer to the original question?  If so, I'd be pleased to read it.  If not, then you've wasted your time, my time and Adobe's bandwidth"

I don't see the need to be rude. We spend a lot of time trying to assist people with queries and ask nothing in return.

I trust you will get the resource Neil posted and wish you the best of luck.

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Participant ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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No, you made assumptions.  And incorrect ones.

That a project is set up with only standard stereo L/R audio channels doesn't mean that all the sound has to be contained in those two channels.  It simply means that the sound is contained within those two channels but not that it couldn't be split otherwise. 

In point of fact you did nothing to help and are still not doing so.  You cut and pasted an answer from another discussion thread.  Further, you copied and pasted from a thread not even on the Adobe forums, how to convert stereo tracks to output 5.1 in premier pro : Adobe Premiere Pro and unless you are also Brent Marginet, you appear to have plagiarised his response. 

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Guide ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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Wow I have seen arrogance before but you truly win 1st prize.

Yes I brought in a post from an earlier forum with the technical aspects of stereo and surround sound.

I could have just as well posted a link from a website. And you call me a plagiarist?

In no way was that posted altered or changes. It merely stated how 5.1 surround should be set up which I felt you would benefit from.

R Neil Haugen​ I will leave this thread to you. I cannot stand disrespect and self righteousness when all we do is try to assist as best we can.

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Participant ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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Once again, you have done nothing to assist.  You didn't answer the original question.  You have not answered the original questions.  You have done nothing but try to justify (perhaps only to yourself) your continued impertinence.

Plagiarism:  an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author (source - dictionary.com). 

You did not cite the source.  You did not credit the person who provided the answer.  Ergo....

You say I am arrogant.  That's funny.  I've dealt with people like you for years on internet fora.  Most of us likely have.  The Adobe forum here is filled with them, too.  Then when you get called out for your own troll-like behaviour, you cry foul.  It's a well-worn, and easily identified pattern. 

Go away.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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Mo made some initial assumptions, but ... I made those exact same assumptions from your initial post. I just responded from a slightly different angle than he did. As to whether or not he exactly answered your original question, as worded, I can easily see several ways to take that question. It wasn't shall we say blindingly obvious.

Which is fine ... most often, when questions are asked here, it takes 2-5 responses to get exactly what the OP was wanting, or what their situation is. That give & take is part of the whole remote trouble-shooting process.

My statement ...

You wouldn't have to use a new project, you might need to make a new sequence.

Was phrased that way as I wasn't at all sure what you wanted, were looking for, or needed.

And because I wasn't clear what you needed, and knowing the audio in an NLE like PrPro can be complex in discussion, I responded by suggested Jarle's book.

Mo tried to be more direct ... took a guess from what you had written, and offered a potential help for your troubles. On his own time, no cost to you or benefit to himself. No charge for buying a book, either.

Your response ...

Do you have an actual answer to the original question?  If so, I'd be pleased to read it.  If not, then you've wasted your time, my time and Adobe's bandwidth. 

Seemed to me a bit aggressive right off the bat. He wasn't wasting anyone's time, he simply tried to outguess your post and need, proffering a post that you could easily say ... naw, not what I needed, and that's cool.

I personally don't assume anyone's post is going to be answered in one quick question/posting. You seem to be demanding here that anyone answering your question better have the EXACT answer to your question, no matter how difficult it is to phrase the question so "we" can grasp your specific need. And if we don't hit it exactly, you're comfortable with attacking.

I just don't understand that at all.

As to your charge of "plagiarism" ... any of the folks I know of here that routinely help out, all has their own form of cribbed responses from themselves or others in various posts. We routinely paste them into threads here when they're of use. I don't know of a one of 'us' that might be irritated at being quoted by someone else ... without attribution ... because if it helps, great. It's just the fastest way of getting it done.

I've even been accused of plagiarism by a ... person ... some months back. That was a joy, as well ... he clearly didn't check who had written the original thread on the SpeedGrade forum a couple years earlier.

I'm not impressed with an attack for plagiarism on copy/pasting a post simply trying to help someone as quickly as possible.

Neil

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Guide ,
Nov 17, 2018 Nov 17, 2018

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R Neil Haugen​ I read the OP's post a few times and offered the best advice I possibly could. From what I read he had wanted to take a 2 channel source and create a 5.1 project out of it.

"Is it possible to convert a project that is already set up with standard stereo sound to 5.1 surround"

I then posted from a n older post about how 5.1 is actually created.

To say I was shocked at the response would be an understatement.

OP let me give you a little background on my sound career side. I have worked as sound engineer at several internationally acclaimed recoding studios, have done final mix and masters for a number of feature films, have been on several Billboard Top chart hits as an apprentice engineer and have worked with artists that most dream of working with at SONY and Abbey Road etc.

This is not something I advertise but suffice to say, I know my sound very well.

Your responses were uncalled for and your mannerism was to say the least, crude.

I wish you the best of luck wit your new surround project and hope you excel at what you are trying to achieve

Mo

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 27, 2022 Apr 27, 2022

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Thank you for all your insightful information.

I am needting to convert my sound as well.

Great job Mr. Haugen!

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Guide ,
Nov 15, 2018 Nov 15, 2018

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5.1 and Stereo are two completely different and independent mixes.

Left Front should contain at least - Left Music, Effects, Foley and some Dialogue.

Right Front should contain at least - Right Music, Effects, Foley and some Dialogue.

Centre is primarily Dialogue but can contain other audio elements.

LFE is the Sub Woofer Channel which is generally anything below about 120hz.

Left Surround should contain at least - Left Music, Effects, Foley and some Dialogue.

Right Surround should contain at least - Right Music, Effects, Foley and some Dialogue.

This should be properly mixed as a separate session and the idea with 5.1 is that if something is moving across the screen it moves across the speakers. Dialogue and say a plane going over head will move around the room.

A Stereo Mix split up like this hardly makes it a 5.1 Mix.

What sound sources are you going to add to the rear channels etc? You only have a stereo source so it will get really confusing to the viewer

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Participant ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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When I was trying to search on this, I found an old thread with that exact same answer.  Whether it was from you, or not, I don't know.

Thank you for copying & pasting a comment that does not answer the question.  Did you even read the question?

As far as being "confusing to the viewer", this would lead me to believe that you didn't actually read the original post.  To quote from the original question: "I'd like to spend some time working with surround sound - putting the sound effects, for example, in the Ls/Rs channels, adding some effects panning in the surround channels, that sort of thing."  Or, to put it more simply, I want to experiment.  I want to work with surround sound to get a feel for it.  There was nothing in the original post about creating an end project for viewers. 

Do you have an actual answer to the original question?  If so, I'd be pleased to read it.  If not, then you've wasted your time, my time and Adobe's bandwidth. 

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Mentor ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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I'm retired grip and old (use cs6 and learning other stuff). It used to be that you had to have a plug in from some dolby thing (Minntetonka) ? Oddly that address is close to where I moved from NYC to MN. a few years ago. But they have no tech presence here, it's just an outpost of copyrighted and patented stuff (from Germany probably).

You have two top down illustrations. One had front speakers ( L and R). Doesn't matter if they play the same sound ( it's just 2 speakers).

Now you have some imaginary recording that actually USES stereo recording. Wow , what a concept !

Now, on top of that, you want to turn it into surround sound !!!!   How cool is that !

So the first thing is to get 5 mono tracks from you source.

Then spend the rest of your life trying to make something SOUND like it's moving from frame left to frame right !

hehe.. have fun !

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Mentor ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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once you get the correct illustration ( UI ) you'll see what I mean about the adjustments you can make

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Mentor ,
Nov 16, 2018 Nov 16, 2018

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huh ? what happened to this thread ?

I thought it would get into using equalizer settings and really complicated 'adjustments' to 2 channel stereo ( 2 channels called left and right that are the exact same sound out of 2 speakers)  and split that into 5 mono channels so that a map of surround sound could be created via 'artificial means'.

The only way to really record surround sound ( or real stereo for that matter) on a set is to RECORD it that way to begin with.

Otherwise you can fake it with splitting stuff into the mono channels and using the controls available ( with levels and frequency adjustments, etc. ).. In my opinion. Hope this helps.  Is kinda like really HARD to do that stuff.

hehe... but worth playing around with for sure.

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Participant ,
Nov 19, 2018 Nov 19, 2018

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Rodney, yes you can do it the way you describe - using multiple mono audio tracks in Pr.  Even doing it that way; however, the project, or sequence, still needs to be set up as a 5.1 sequence - at least I believe it does.  You can also create a 5.1 mix in Audition.  That is the route I would likely investigate first.

Neil, you did answer the question I asked.  The audio properties of the sequence I have are stereo.  It is not, as you outlined and as I've determined through additional research, possible to convert a sequence with stereo audio properties to a sequence with 5.1 properties.  You said I'd have to create a new sequence, as opposed to an entire new project and it seems that's the fact. 

My question said nothing about audio sources, and whether those sources were mono, or stereo.  It asked about the audio setup/properties (no I didn't use the word properties) within the project.  Should I have said sequence instead of project?  Maybe.  But I wasn't sure it would be possible to set up a 2nd sequence inside an existing project that had different audio properties. 

When I see/hear a question that is not clear to me, I ask for clarification.  Obviously, I felt my question was clear.  Asking me to clarify may have been helpful.  I would have been happy to do that. 

I found, and continue to find, Mo Moola's responses to be wanting, to say the least.  Unhelpful.  And condescending.  I don't care what your career background is.  Congratulations.  However, when one resorts to trotting out their CV as self-justification, it's typically the result of a bruised ego and an attempt to make oneself seem important.  I never said you didn't know sound.  I said you didn't answer my question.  And you didn't. 

Neil, my response may have been harsh; however, this forum is one of the worst I have experienced in terms of condescension, ego and lack of utility.  There are a handful of people, in my experience, who are prepared to help.  You are one.  Most others simply want to strut like peacocks while being trite and patronizing, or worse.  Experience here puts me on edge. 

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Community Expert ,
Nov 19, 2018 Nov 19, 2018

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Understood.

What different people "feel" from the presence of others on these forums doth fascinate me. To some people, I'm way too wordy and detailed. Others, I'm useful beyond words. And I've been told to ditch off too, of course.

There's a couple curmudgeons that haven't posted in more than a year, who often were seen as rude and critical in their short, direct answers. I think they were kind of like the head obstetrics nurse when our second child was born ... horrible "bedside manner" for general stuff during labor, but ... if you had an emergency, as our Doctor said ... "you want her in their helping me!" And he didn't enjoy her company either. Her knowledge & skills ... were treasured.

I miss them here. In their short, direct, and at times harshly critical responses to workflow issues I learned a ton when I was starting out. They kind of reminded me of some of the old farmers I knew growing up. Direct and at times blue-mouthed. Knew their fields, their gear, and farming in general cold. And after telling us in a quick couple words we were needed help on account of being stupid, they'd set their own work aside and come running to get us going again. So I not only have more tolerance for a "diversity" of response, but in some ways it might feel a bit "homey".

I do like to get people to Jarle's book especially for audio things. He covers real-world setting up your presets & sequences for audio better than anything else I've seen. And ain't nothin' obvious about setting up audio in PrPro.

Neil

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Mentor ,
Nov 19, 2018 Nov 19, 2018

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Oh, cool. I used to have that surcode or dolby plug in trial for cs6 ( had vegas way back then too, which had it built in), and just played with it (surround sound out of a pc soundcard back then ). Don't know what people get now ( free 5.1 or plug in or whatever).

A movie called, 'The Thing', starring Kurt Russell, is about the ONLY movie I ever saw that used 5.1 well. In the beginning of the movie a helicopter flies in to the icy camp and moves from camera right to left to BEHIND you ( back left and then to back right) and it sounded FANTASTIC.

I'm old but my memory should be relatively intact, where that memory is sorta accurate.

hehe...

Other than that one movie I can't think of any cool 5.1 stuff.. Just 'faked' ( dinosaurs, super heroes, explosions, etc. )

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New Here ,
Dec 01, 2021 Dec 01, 2021

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this thread is literally gold

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 27, 2022 Apr 27, 2022

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It's actually both funny and informative to read

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