Delete empty bin/folder gives warning "…contains clip references"

[Ovidius9000]

Premiere Productions.  I'm doing some re-orgnization (in the project, not at OS level).   I've emptied out a group of nested folders.   They are empty, no clips no sequences.   But when I try to delete teh top leve folder I am given the "…contains clip references…" warning (see below).  I've narrowed it down to two folders, but they seem to be empty folders just like the others.

Why the warning?  Should I ignore it an just delete the folders?

[R Neil Haugen]

Have you tried selecting the "show hidden" option?

[Ovidius9000]

This is a folder in my project.  A "bin".   I don't see any "show hidden" option.  Are you referring to a folder at the OS level?

[R Neil Haugen]

Nope, Premiere has an option to Hide things in bins, along with naturally an un-hide option. It can be triggered at times with a keyboard shortcut, so I've seen it done without the user knowing they did it.

Right-click, show hidden in the bin, I think. Might be on a 'hamburger' three-bar menu.

[Ovidius9000]

Ah, thanks for clarifying.  Wow I swear I looked at the menu and didn't see anything.  Now I see it.  "View Hidden"

But, now I can tell you that there are no hidden clips/seqs.   So why the "…clip references…" warning?

Hiding.  Why even have that capability?  Seems like a terrible idea.

[R Neil Haugen]

Actually it's a very needed item for large productions. Where it helps organize the bins for specific tasks. And as you can change what's hidden, it's pretty spiffy. I've had the use of it explained to me, as initially I was puzzled as to use cases.

Fascinating how we all work differently. And wow, when in a huge production with several thousand video clips, half again that many audio talking clips, let alone sound fx and such ... and graphics and vfx plates and all ... organization becomes crucial to even beginning to get something done.

As to your issue, if neither the top nor lower level folders contain anything, I would next close Premiere, on relaunch holding down the Shift key, selecting dump all cache files.

That may clear up the issue. But even if not, you're probably ok to continue anyway.

[mattchristensen · Accepted solution]

@Ovidius9000 I'm sorry this is happening, it's definitely a little confusing. It's possible this is due to a bug we had in a previous version of Premiere Pro Productions that could lead to this, nothing you did wrong. The best way forward is to just leave those folders as they are. If you delete them you'll see some clips disappear from your timeline. I'm sorry I don't have a full solution to clean it up, but, it should be harmless to leave them as is.

[R Neil Haugen]

And you don't have any way to determine which clips/sequences are involved?

The idea of having top level folders going useless but 'there' for year after year is not acceptable. So I would hope you'd have some suggestions on cleaning this up rather than just having unused folder cluttering (and confusing) the entire Production.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Productions your staff has created in general, other than the old can't match frame issue that's still haning there. But ... this wouldn't be comfortable for me.

[Ovidius9000]

This is the craziest thing about Premiere to me.   The idea that removing a "lower level" object (be it an actual clip, or mutlicam, or an empty folder) can destroy work at an "upper leve" (a sequence) makes no sense.  The whole point of computer editing systems is they are "non destructive".   This seems like the opposite.

Is there literally no way to remove things without deleting the upstream clips?   No way to like, I dunno, "scan" the project or something?

[mattchristensen]

@Ovidius9000 as I mentioned, the state you are in is not supposed to happen. I know of at least two bugs we have fixed in the past that could lead to situations like this, so it's possible you hit it at that point and only noticed the issue now. 

I have a suggestion for something to try but please realize I can't promise it will work since I don't have your production to know its exact state. Please make a full copy of your production folder and stash it somewhere before trying this:

1. Since I don't know what it's called, let's call the project with the empty folders "Project A". Create a new empty project called "Project B".
2. Drag the sequence or sequences from Project A to Project B so that Project A now only has the empty folders
3. File > Save All
4. Close Project B
5. Delete the empty folders from Project A. It's possible you won't get the warning this time, but if you do, go ahead and click Yes.
6. File > Save All
7. Open Project B again and either use that project moving forward, or move the sequences back to Project A and delete B
8. Do another save all, then quit Premiere Pro and then re-open it and the production/projects. Does everything seem fine? Did you get any new "Recovered Clips" folder or anything?

[Ovidius9000]

Thank you for the tip, Matt.  I will try this over the weekend!

[R Neil Haugen]

Thanks for hanging in here, Matt ... always so appreciated.

[Ross3888292368fh]

Matt, there are no sequences in the folders in the first place.  That is part of what is so confusing.

The problem with just clicking "okay" is I won't know if I screwed up other things in my projects by deleteing them or not.

[Ross3888292368fh]

Ok, what worked for me is I made a new project ("Project B").   I dragged everything I want (everything but the problematic folders) from Project A to Project B.   So now the original Project A has only the problem folders.

I saved both projects and then deleted the folders.  No error message, so I guess I'm good!?

Thanks for your help.