Does adobe Premier Pro support XAVC-S Codec?

[rsavoie1]

Does Adobe Premier Pro (latest CC version) support XAVC-S Codec? If not, what software can I use to make it compatible?

[R Neil Haugen]

There are a ton of XAVC codec options, within XAVC-HD and XAVC-QFHD. I don't see an XAVC-S listed, in that you are correct. These are export options, of course ... you don't need to have XAVC-S  as an export option to be able to process in it ... similar to those of us on Windows systems, who can process ProRes files within PrPro et al, but can't export to that codec without buying a spendy license pack ... so we utilize DNxHD/HR.

Neil

[BJBBJB1]

Greetings.  I believe my question is still on the same subject as this thread so hopefully it is okay to add to this.  That PDF is very helpful but have another question!  I am on the latest version of CC for AME and Pr Pro.

I recently have purchased a Sony camcorder and will be recording 4K 3840X2160 30P XAVC-S at 60Mbps but also have the need for HD and even lower resolution versions. I would keep the 4K version as my "original" for the future.

I just want to make sure I am interpreting all of the above correctly.    If I use the XAVC-S file as my AME source, I can export to any 1080P encoded format I prefer.   So it will natively recognize it and transcode it.   Having never transcoded from 4K to HD before, do I need to be mindful of any frame-rate issues or any other settings?  Any recommendations on an export preset that would play nice with this footage?  I would just like to transcode to maybe H.264 1920X1080 or MP4 etc. so my HD streamer can display it.

In my HD workflow I am extremely careful to make sure I always match the original format, frame rate, etc. etc.....just not sure how all that translates to 4K.

Currently the only way I can play my 4K video on a TV is to attach the camcorder to it but I presume that will change over time.

Thanks,

BJBBJB1

[R Neil Haugen]

It's normally easier to keep quality up & artifacts/oddness down by staying with the same frame-rate, and if your streamer can handle it, why change?

So ... yeah, test out a couple of the H.264 presets, perhaps the YouTube 1080pHD one, and I'm wondering if your streamer can handle mxf files? If it does, perhaps trying say the MXF OP1a format with the AVC Intra Class 100 1080/60p preset.

Of course, there's the wide range of DNxHD/R presets on the Windows side of things (also in mxf, though soon to come in mp4 wrapper I think) or the ProRes on the Mac side of the aisle.

I'd suggest testing exports of the same short clip in several presets ... and see which ones work or fail, and of the ones that work, which looks better.

Neil

[gs93392243]

I am experiencing some issues with Premiere Pro CC 2015.3 and Sony XAVC S video files.

I own a sony a6300 and recording 4k files. The camera outputs XAVX S format which is imported in Premiere just fine and can be authored without glitches. However the problems start when I reencode and export to mp4 H265. I am exporting in HEVC (H.265) keeping the resolution (3840, 2160) and fps (23.976). I am only tweaking the bitrate since the camera generates astronomical bitrates (100 or 60mbps) for my storage capacity . I set it up as VBR and 15mbps.

The resulting file for luck of a better word suckkkss in quality. the blacks are washed out and its nothing that I wanna keep. It seems that the output file does not match the source bit per color. I am thinking from my research it could be that its not using full range RGB. Problem is that I do not see anything in premiere that I can tweak either in the timeline or the encoder where I can specify full range or 8 bits or 10 bits. Am I missing a crucial setting here ?

Your help is appreciated. Is there maybe a "special" workflow that I need to adopt when working with XAVC-S 4k files? Maybe convert to yet another format as an intermediate step and then convert to H265 using another app? when I attempted to convert the original files using handbrake and output to 4k and 15mbps vbr the file looked great and identical in color to original.

Regards

[R Neil Haugen]

PrPro simply uses 0-255 unless there is a specific part of a codec's internal settings that is otherwise. But what you're reporting sounds like some sort of shift ... out of curiousity, are you using any Lumetri, especially any LUTs on these files?

And ... when imported back into PrPro, does the washed-out look still appear, or is it only in other viewers?

Neil

[gs93392243]

Interesting..... i did not use any color correction in Lumetri or LUTs. Just doing edits only and outputing the final clip.

you have a point though, when I imported the clip back in PrPro it looks ok. It just other players that cannot reproduce the video right. For example the native player in windows 10 and also VLC. Is there something missing in the h265 video?

-G

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm wondering how your graphics is setup on that computer. I have a PC with an Nvidia 970, and the Nvidia graphics setup app has an option for controlling video player settings as to whether to allow the video player to control things, or the Nvidia settings. I've set that for Nvidia control, and the Dynamic range for 0-255.

Some video players do odd things ... there's possibilities of 16-235 or 16-255 which date from the analog-to-tape days and should be dumped now as they don't have any reason to even exist in our modern digital world ... except for a few broadcast companies that still use the old ways ...

Neil

[gs93392243]

I have a gtx 1050 will check the settings. I got to test it though on media players like, plex, kodi, on h265 compatible devices like firetv, samsung tv etc. That's where i play most of my videos. If those choke too i am still in the same spot unfortunately.

Do you know if there is a value in the h265 stream or in the container? Is there something that i could possibly change myself in either and make the file more "compatible"? I was wondering if an mkv container would get me more mileage, cause i would like to avoid another lossy encoding through another app.

Regards

-G

[R Neil Haugen]

For all the buzz initially about H.265, I'm not seeing that much application of that standard even though it's nearing two years "out". Which tells me that not a lot of people are finding it that useful, or given the compression available in it, I'd think it would have taken over. Both here and in other places, except for some pros using it within heavy software & gear workflows (with special programs & hardware handling such things) I'm seeing mostly questions on how to make it usable.

For now, a couple of the better ones creating H.265 seem to be Handbrake & I think FFMPEG. Which is intriguing. I've seen some people say they've had good results out of Resolve, and read a couple others say they didn't. I've tested it initially, but it doesn't offer anything I really need so I've not adopted it personally.

If you export in H.264, are you getting what you expect?

Neil

[gs93392243]

Oh yeah. It hasn't spread like a wildfire for sure. You need a device that has hardware acceleration for h265, a 4k tv and most importantly content. Content nowhere to be found, direct tv has what one channel? Yikes. Amazon and Netflix has some good stuff. Hopefully with the recent price drops this past black friday more 4k tv sets will find their way into households.

I use it for personal videos. Jumped on the 4k wagon for a newborn.  But i see its a mission to do get something 'right'. Things still mature.

Will have to test the h264 color space.

I believe though in h265 cause those 4k camera files are huuuuuuge. H265 produces impressive quality for the size on 4k.

[gs93392243]

Unfortunately I wasn't that lucky with my tests. The files were not playing nice on players. My reference player for 4k h265 is currently plex on tizen (samsung tv). This version of plex supports natively 4k and h265 since I have tested with downloaded content.

My files from PrPro play with washed out blacks. Same footage reencoded with handbrake play with correct color space (correct black level). I even tried to change the black level from TV menu but this grayed was out in TV application mode.

I guess possible solution is to figure out:

a) encode my original camera files to a format native to PrPro.

    Complete my edit and export in H265

b) Edit in PrPro with my original files and

    export in intermediate file format.

    Then take those and encode using handbrake.

Any recommendation would be really appreciated.

Also tried something along the lines of b). I attempted to encode in XAVC-S from PrPro using the selection "MXF OP1a" but this was crashing the media encoder in the middle of the clip

[R Neil Haugen]

This reminds me of another post here a week or two back, with an issue in a Qt codec, I think. The conclusion seemed to be that PrPro seems totally intent on a straight 0-255 "world", and doesn't bother to utilize file headers to denote which 'space' is used in the clip. As that marker isn't in the clips produced by PrPro, some video players make an assumption based on what they ​expect​ is 'native' to certain codecs ... an unfortunate one, in this case.

So ... I think you'll need to export a full file out in say DNxHD/R, then take that into Handbrake, and export an H.265 with that "marker" properly embedded in the clip. Sadly, I'm not a codec expert and familiar with the tech details of PrPro's export process.

Unless Trent Happel​ perhaps has another suggestion ... ?

Neil

[gs93392243]

Hi Neil, did a few more tests based on your recommendations.

1) Re-encode using h264. This went fine and I was able to transcode original camera files to h264 and the color space was identical to original. This proves that there is something going on with the h265 codec and not the workflow or sequence.

2) Encoded using DNxHD/R. Tried a few permutations of the Avid format and it completed fine. However the files were not readable by handbrake and I was not able to transcode to h265. Thats a handbrake issue, I'm not sure they support those files currently. Maybe another codec but I was not able to find in this short time.

It seems impossible to create acceptable h265 files currently with PrePro. Some work needs to be done for sure still. The 2 artifacts that I identified so far:

1) h265 codec creates files in the wrong color space or flags the file incorrectly. This shows both in windows and hardware media players

2) Encoding in an intermediate file such as XAVC QFHD Intra Class 300 (MXF OP1a) crashes media encoder mid way. This would have helped me cause the XAVC file is readable by handbrake and transcoding to h265 would be simple.

Hopefully those 2 will end up in the artifact tracker and addressed in a later revision.Is Adobe using a public JIRA for such reports?

[R Neil Haugen]

Not sure what a "JIRA" is ... as far as say a bug/feature-requests form, that would be here ...

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

You might also try the Quicktime 'format' using the GoPro Cineform YUV 10-bit (gets the mov wrapper), or the DNxHD/R option there, found in the lower box as shown ...

Those I think would work in Handbrake ...

Neil

[gs93392243]

Thank you sir!  Will try them out.

[gs93392243]

interesting my drop down for quicktime doest include this option. Attached image. I wonder if the equivalent is "Uncompressed YUV ..."

[R Neil Haugen]

Hmmm I did go to the Avid site & download their entire free codec pack, maybe that's why I have a lot more Avid options than you do ...

Avid QuickTime Codecs LE

Neil

[gs93392243]

Aha...

Also I caught a break. I tried a few attempts with XAVC QFHD Intra Class 300 (MXF OP1a) and there is a setting "Sony device compatibility". When I check this to on media encoder does not crash. When I toggle to off it consistently crashes. The resulting file was readable by handbrake and encoded ok.

I am downloading also the Avid codecs to test their output and compare.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel hehe

[R Neil Haugen]

Good to hear ...

Neil