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Have we found a solution (No LUT) for Mac Displays?

Explorer ,
Nov 17, 2021 Nov 17, 2021

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You know THAT  problem. Is there a solution that is better than a compensation LUT? Seems like a juvemnil solution for a bigger problem. Do I have to set my monitor to rec 709 to do my colors?

Thanks

JP

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Export, Hardware or GPU

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 17, 2021 Nov 17, 2021

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There can be no "solution" as long as the Macs use a different color management standard than the rest of the world.

 

Because that is the problem: Apple chose odd non-standard settings for Rec.709 media. Everyone working broadcast/streaming/long-form has to work by the SAME standards to be able to work at all. PrPro is designed to work within and according to the international standards for Rec.709 video media.

 

Those settings tell the display how to interpret the file data. But Apple's ColorSync applies a lower gamma, 1.96 instead of the correct Rec.709 standard of 2.4 (2.2 for "bright room" working environments). And ColorSync only applies the first of two required transforms for Rec.709 media, they don't apply the display transform.

 

And that is why on a properly color managed system for Rec.709, PrPro's files are fine both within and without PrPro. And why say VLC and Firefox, which ignore ColorSync on Macs, will show the file on a Mac much closer to Pr and proper CM systems. While QuickTime, Chrome & Safari will show the 'brighter' interpretation of the same data.

 

I work with and for pro colorists daily. With their freaking expensive systems, quite frequently Macs. And they cannot 'fix' this other than by sending the data from the computer via a breakout device like a BlackMagic display card or AJA external box that is set to bypass the GPU and the computer OS entirely.

 

It was an Apple choice to create this mess. Which frustrates most everyone in video post work.

 

Neil

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Explorer ,
Nov 17, 2021 Nov 17, 2021

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I get your answer but we have to break the "TV Broadcast" dogma here. Content made on a computer needs to be edited and colored on a computer mac or PC. I know it's a Apple problem but it doesn't change the fact that there is got to be a solution for export and changing the gamma tag or whatever.

JP

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 17, 2021 Nov 17, 2021

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It isn't a "TV broadcast dogma" issue. It is about how any device correlates video data in a file to the attached display.

 

The BlackMagic Resolve export option of "Rec.709-A" for Apple applies a different NLC tag that will make the image more properly Rec709 on a Mac, but of course, that same tagging mangles the image on a non-Mac device. The Adobe LUT on export accomplishes the same thing albeit by a different process.

 

And both options typically will result in a "fail" going through a QC machine.

 

 Because neither actually fixes anything, really. They simply choose a different disease.

 

ALL non-Mac devices and systems use the international standard set for Rec.709 YUV endoded video media.This is the standard that all pro-produce media is created "on". No matter the end market. Whether its a TV or monitor or "device".

 

Now, most TVs, monitors and 'devices' do things to "enhance the viewer's experience" that drive colorists nuts. But their basic operation is still according to Rec.709.

 

Recent Mac devices do not follow the Rec.709 standards. I will add, that  even the older Mac OS setups used the correct international standard for correlating video data to the display. Apple changed their setup away from the standards they had followed, a couple years back.

 

I've been through TONS of discussions by high-end color management experts on this. They are totally baffled as to why Apple chose to do what they did ... and why Apple is pretty much not interested in discussing anything about this on record with anyone.

 

All people producing to pro standards have to use the full Rec.709 standards. Period. Or their delivery gets bounced in the QC process and refused. So every TV/streaming/movie show you see on any device has been produced and delivered according to the standards. Whether delivered by antenna, satellite, or streaming service.

 

Your nifty Mac computer actually, and intentionally, mis-displays that content. On what is in general one of the prettier monitors made. You of course aren't aware of it, as you haven't seen the original colorist's monitor side-by-side with what appears on your screen. So ... does it bother you to watch other media on your Mac? I'm thinking, not ... and yet, you are most certainly not seeing the 'original' image.

 

The reality that pro colorists have to deal with all the time ... is no one ever sees their original image.

 

It's very difficult to get two indentical displays connected to the same breakout box and LUT showing the same image side-by-side. In a colorist's suite where they have more bucks spent on their colorimetry devices and software than you've spent on your entire computing setup.

 

This is why most colorists who work in client-attended sessions want the room designed so the client ONLY sees the client monitor on the wall, and never sees the colorist's reference monitor. Because if they do, at some point there will be the comment to 'make this display look like that one' ... which is a rabbit hole of infinite depth.

 

So, many colorists have as part of their standard contract that choices about the colorist's work can only be made from viewing that work on approved displays. Such as the client monitor in the colorist's suite.

 

Or ... actually ... certain of the high-end recent iPad models, IF you know how to go in and turn off most controls and reset a couple things, they can have pretty good imagery close to a pro Reference monitor when also viewed in a semi-darkened room.

 

So some of my colorist buds have stacks of those iPads they send to clients during a job, if any decision maker will not be on-site.

 

But there's no way on God's green earth that any application, whether Premiere Pro, Resolve, or Avid, can make something that will look the same when viewed on two systems with quite different application of standards.

 

I have seen that some colorists, in prepping things for online use only situations, grade to their Rec.709 Grade 1 reference monitor. Then after they've graded the show, they compare the image to their Retina Mac screen. And then in a final node, darken the mids just a bit and slightly increase saturation, so that ... the image isn't quite "destroyed" in the shadows on the Reference monitor, but isn't quite as 'light' in the shadows on the Retina display.

 

It's a working (mostly) compromise. They're not happy about needing to do this. But for some clients, it keeps peace in the house.

 

Neil

 

 

 

 

 

 

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