Lumetri Effect causing drastic slowing of playback and rendering in CC 2017.0.2

Community Beginner ,
Feb 09, 2017 Feb 09, 2017

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My 2008 Mac Pro with 22GB of RAM and an ATI Radeon HD 5870 has been holding up very nicely up until using Lumetri in the latest version of Premiere Pro.

I often film in 4K then scale to 1080p in timelines, make a few adjustments using the Lumetri panel and rarely use any other effects. I've been generating proxies since they were available which has helped my real time playback a lot but I've noticed, in the latest version of PP that as soon as I add a Lumetri effect, even with proxies, my timeline status bar changes to red, playback stutters even at 1/4 resolution and rendering takes probably 10 times what it used to. I've tried to replicate the effect using levels etc instead of Lumetri, and that works fine. The status bar doesn't change to red and renders are as fast as before.

I went through a long process with Adobe support who eventually concluded that it is because the latest version of Premiere Pro needs at least a 2GB graphics card, and that is the only problem.

If it were a case that my computer could no longer keep up I would completely understand but as it's only Lumetri that's causing these problems, and as it worked perfectly well in previous versions, am I expecting too much for it still to work well? Has anyone else noticed this issue?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 09, 2017 Feb 09, 2017

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Lumetri does require a lot from the hardware. The color science in there (according to some colorists I know) is clearly far above that of the "obsolete" effects, and in many ways and uses is preferable to the older tool set. But ... it does require a lot of the CPU especially.

I've noted that Lumetri with a lot of things changed, and especially stacking Lumetri effects on a clip to say use multiple HSL secondaries, can really dog down my computer. The same work done in SpeedGrade won't affect playback at all. So it's pretty easy to conclude that although the color science of the Lumetri panel is fine, the optimization of the code for playback is perhaps not as good.

For a marginal computer, the older tools are probably still needed just to work.

Now ... an eight year old computer ... that box has given marvelous service, and is to be praised. However, for working 4k and moving forward ... it is perhaps time to consider a new tool.

I had an HP laptop that I bought in 2003, and it was my main laptop until I needed "more", then it became the wife's laptop. And then ... it became a laptop we only used for 'remote sales setups' for our portrait studio, where it ran itself, a second monitor for clients, and a couple easy programs for viewing/selecting images and sales data recording.

But last fall ... it ... well, just would sort of stop and start every so often. And last week, our computer builder friend removed it from the building to go to that big home in the sky for revered but sadly no longer functioning devices.

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 10, 2017 Feb 10, 2017

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Thanks for that insight. I completely understand that when new software is released, my old Mac Pro might struggle or, in some cases, not be able to run it at all. As far as I know, the latest bump in Premiere to 2017.0.2 didn't include any major new features for Lumetri that weren't included in the previous 2017 versions? Certainly not anything that should justify such a huge decrease in performance from my Mac. I have also noticed that renders using Lumetri now seem to max out my CPU, which I'm pretty sure wasn't the case before.

Of course there are things under the hood that may have changed/improved, so it would be very helpful to have Adobe confirm that is the case if so, rather than it just feeling like "there aren't any major new features, but your renders will now take 10 times longer if you use Lumetri!".

If it is something that may possibly be improved again in the next Premiere Pro release, it would be great to know that too so I can revert to the previous version and avoid looking into alternative software while a new computer is out of reach at the moment.

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 10, 2017 Feb 10, 2017

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I ran some tests by exporting some 1 minute sequences in both 2017.0.2 (in blue) and 2017.0.1 (in red) to see the speed differences. Not quite 10 times, but still pretty drastic I think!

Screen Shot 2017-02-10 at 13.18.58.jpg

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 10, 2017 Feb 10, 2017

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This is fascinating, especially as another user had been having incredibly huge lags and slowness ... if any Lumetri was involved, with 2017.0.1. He was looking at 30 seconds after he'd adjusted a control before anything was usable or moved on his project. Playback just horrid.

He updated to 2017.0.2, and as he put it .. "​BAM!​" all his troubles went away, even with multiple Lumetri running many LUTs created in Resolve ... playback perfect, controls responsive immediately ...

Here's a link to his comment in the other thread ...

Re: PP cc 2015, Lumetri color panel unusable due to lag

So what the heck is making one user's gear so darn slow, and another's righteously fast?

No clue.

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 12, 2017 Feb 12, 2017

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Thanks for that reply too. It is very interesting to hear about the opposite experience, I'm obviously a lot less happy about the change than that user!

Having rolled back to 2017.0.1 I can work very efficiently again. I'm not sure if/how I can reach out to anyone at Adobe about the issue. I've only managed to receive a blunt "you need at least a 2GB graphics card now", but it would be helpful to know what it causing the drastic change in Lumetri specifically, and whether it's a permanent thing that I should give up hope of improving in future updates.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 12, 2017 Feb 12, 2017

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They are simply never going to code PrPro to work with less than 2GB of GPU vRAM from now forward ... not that I can see. So yes, to really work with it you're going to need that vRAM.

And yes, almost every update has some happy with the new changes, and others ... not so. It's Life, you know?

For posting issues with current releases and also for requesting new features, this is the way to get your complaint/report/request to the managers that do make the engineering time budget decisions ... I gather in some form of tabulated or spread-sheet style report.

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Neil

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New Here ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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Hi All,

sorry to thread jack.

I am experiencing very similar issues at the moment,  on a 2014 macbook pro i7.

However, I have only recently started experimenting with luts/lumetri etc, so I'm unsure whether or not rolling back to the previous version would solve my problem.

I'm happy to give it a shot though, as its driving me up the wall.

Please could anyone tell me how to go back to one of the previous versions?

Thanks

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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If you click on your creative cloud icon up in the menu bar, then scroll down to "find additional apps", then click on the "install" button next to Premiere Pro you should see a drop down box with all the available versions. Hope that helps. Do let us know if you have any improvements with a previous version!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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In the Adobe Creative Cloud Desktop app, go to the Apps section, then scroll down to the bar that says "Find Additional Apps".

Over to the right of that bar is some blue text ... click on that text, and from the drop-down list, select "View Previous Version".

Scroll down to PrPro, and click on the Install button to the right. You'll get a listing of all the first releases of "Major" versions of PrPro. To get the last version, that would be the 2015.3/10.4.0 version.

You can keep 2017 and run that version also. To use After Effects, you would need to load the equivalent version of that app.

Neil

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New Here ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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Thanks  for the quick response Neil.

I managed to figure out how to do it just before you posted. Installed  cc 2015, and still have the same issue .

Its a shame really as I've literally just started to get an understanding about colour grading etc, but now I'm unable to experiment any further because of this issue.

Is there anything else that may help to solve this? I have also tried to disable the GPU accelerator, but that didn't help either.

Thanks again

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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Please detail the specs of that laptop ... including the drive/storage media and connections.

Neil

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New Here ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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Its a 2014 Macbook Pro.

Processor:       2.2 Ghz Intel Core i7

Memory:         16GB 1600 MHz DD3R

Startup Disk:   Macintosh HD

Graphics:        Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB

Also to note....I use a Samsung 4TB USB3 external HD when working on my projects. I'm no expert but thought this may have been causing the issues? However, when I create a new project, and work/save it on the mac, the same issue still occurs.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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That is undoubtedly (at 4GB) an old-style "spinner". Internally, they're not bad, but externally over even a USB3 connection they aren't the most optimal. 2017 is clearly (by many tests by users & especially Bill Gehrke, The Guru for practical hardware setups using the Adobe digital/video apps) optimized for new-generation SSD's.

Such things as say a Samsung T3 via USB3 has been giving him sustained read/write figures (as I recall) in excess of 400 Mbps. (And I think it's Mbps not MBps ... )

And the CPU is pretty slow by current standards, RAM adequate, but the Intel graphics way low on performance.

So ... you've got a relatively slow CPU, not the best footage/project storage media, and a way-below-specs graphics processor.

Lumetri is one of the things that doth use the GPU if possible, and you don't have anything it can really use. It's gonna be a dog. A really slow one. That's about like my own laptop, and I do have PrPro loaded on it, but I only use it when I'm away from my office and need to test something or get a screen-grab, so I don't really ​edit​ on it.

Neil

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New Here ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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Gutted .

Can I upgrade any of that hardware Neil, or would I just be better off getting a new machine?

Failing that, are there any other programs I could use to colour grade, which don't require as much juice as Lumetri?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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For grading, you're just going to need a better GPU ... no way around it.

I'd recommend going over to the Hardware forum and checking around there ... Bill, "Safeharbor11", RoninEdits, some of the folk over there will give excellent advice, including from an awareness of cost issues.

https://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/hardware_forum

Neil

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New Here ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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Great. Thanks  a lot for your help Neil. Well appreciated!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 16, 2017 Feb 16, 2017

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Always want to help fix things, but sometimes, the only fix is different gear.

Been through that here for ... on my third editing machine now.

Neil

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2022 May 07, 2022

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Just for grins, I thought I'd see if there's any improvement in rendering speed by turning off Lumetri features/stages that you're not using. That is, if you're only using Basic Correction, is there any benefit to turning off (unclicking the 'active' checkbox) for everything else (Creative, etc.)?

 

My test was pretty simplistic: I have a 6 minute clip with two layers, both of which use Lumetri. One layer uses one Lumetri 'stage', the other uses two. For both layers I turned off all stages I wasn't using. The render time turning off all the unused stages was about 4h35m, vs. 4h50 with all the stages active.

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