Maintaining subclip metadata - banging head against wall :(

Participant ,
Feb 06, 2022 Feb 06, 2022

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I have 6 AVI files ranging from 30 - 55 minutes in length - captured back in the day over firewire from a miniDV camera. Each file contains dozens and dozens of slated individual takes (it's a short film). I created subclips for each take. I added a lot of metadata to each subclip, camera angle/shot size/scene/setup/take# and even the dialog that is spoken in each take. Great right?

1.png

 

I've decided to use the Production feature, as my project file was getting pretty large. So for simplicity's sake, let's say I just have two project files in my Production - the above "Subclips" project (which only contains the subclips) and a "Scene 01" project, which contains a single sequence. I select the subclips I require for the scene and pull them from the Subclips project into the Scene01 project - and presto! my Scene01 project has the clips in the sequence, though the project itself still just has one item in it - the sequence file (and thus the beauty of Production feature).

 

However, when I select the same clip in my Scene 01 file and look at metadata, it does not contain metadata anymore - I suppose because it is now another "instance" of the subclip?

 

Of course the subclips in the "Subclips" project (and in the Scene01 project) ultimately point back to one of the 6 "master" AVI files, e.g. if I match frame it will pull up relevant AVI file. So there is no point in my "Dynamically Linking" my metadata with source clip - as my sour clips are 45 minute long video files, so, e.g. if I use the Scene dynamically linked metadata field and input "01" on a subclip for scene 01, it will mark the entire 45 min long AVI file as being scene 01, though many of the takes within that file are fore scene 02.

 

I want to maintain my metadata when I use subclips. I've tried looking into exporting and importing metadata, and even went so far as to export each subclip in the original format as a new piece of media (which works) - but I'm wondering if I've lost some quality - I obviously want to use the original footage, as initially captured.

 

I think I understand the difference between source clips, subclips and instances of each - but have to wonder, with all footage these days being captured on media cards, how the workflow should go when you have single large files with many setups and takes. Perhaps it's done during the "Capture" - but I can't go back in time and recapture the files from the miniDV (they are lost).

 

Am I making sense? I'm sure I'm missing something fundamental about the subclip workflow - but have searched high and low and so threw in the towel and am asking for help here.  

 

Thanks for any replies!

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 06, 2022 Feb 06, 2022

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Productions is designed so that the image files 'live' in that original project file, and are simply referenced into the sequence project. So it is assumed you would still access that metadata from the media project.

 

And of course, it's assumed both those projects are in your production. That's the beauty of Productions mode.

 

Neil

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Participant ,
Feb 06, 2022 Feb 06, 2022

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Hi Neil,

 

I think I get what you're saying. For some reason I just want to click on a clip in my sequence project and see matching metadata, e.g. my "circle" takes, or all CU's that contain the dialog "Banging head", marked "Good" - but the only value of filtering those clips would be to put them in a, e.g., selects sequence, which as you noted, is easily done by using the "media project", filtering on those same metadata fields, grabbing those clips and placing them in the sequence project (which is precisely what I've already done!) lol. The lightbulb went off after I read your reply. I suppose it just scares me when I don't see the metadata on the clip in the sequence.

 

Is the assumption here that once things start making their way onto the timeline, all of the usefulness of the metadata should have already been utilized?

 

I've been accused of over-thinking things.

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 06, 2022 Feb 06, 2022

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No ... that clip still 'lives' in the original project you imported it into. And is not imported into other projects, it's simply referenced from that project within "this" project's sequence. The data is still the same data for the clip.

 

Unless of course you do the step of making a new version of the clip in the other project file. I forget their terminology for that process at the moment.

 

Neil

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Participant ,
Feb 06, 2022 Feb 06, 2022

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Yes, if I'm understanding you, the Best Practices shows an option for holding down CNTRL while dragging clips into another project - this will make a direct copy, and of course user now has all of those clips in the project whereas previously it just contained the sequence file. Actually not a bad option for me - as having a "scene 1" project file with *only* the subclips that contain scene 1 footage is a good compromise.

Thanks for helping me understand this better!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 06, 2022 Feb 06, 2022

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I don't create a separate Source clip or whatever they call it now unless I'm going to be moving it out of the Production. As within that Production, you have all the data available. That's how they're built. It isn't missing data.

 

Neil

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Participant ,
Feb 07, 2022 Feb 07, 2022

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No missing data - agreed - now that I know that when I cull clips from the "media" project, they are not merely references, but new "instances" (though they do carry over marker data). Markers come over, but label colors do not.

 

When I initially posted, I didn't realize they would be new "instances" of the subclips, and so thought they were missing data.

 

Maybe I'll make a video showing how this works for newbies working with productions - might be helpful.

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Participant ,
Feb 14, 2022 Feb 14, 2022

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Please see video. Some strange problems (or could be user error!)

 

Since then, I've decided to remake all of my subclips (180). One thing is - the Video In and Out will always show as Drop-Frame TC - even thought I've modified Source-->Timecode to display Non-Drop frame timecode.

 

When I create brand new subclips - the Video In and Out are shown correctly (except in Drop Frame TC).

 

Does anyone see a way around my having to re-create all 180 of these subclips?

 

Click here for video 

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Participant ,
Feb 14, 2022 Feb 14, 2022

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Can't seem to edit that latest post -- the text in the video isn't readable - I'll post a new one this afternoon. Apologies!

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Participant ,
Feb 14, 2022 Feb 14, 2022

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 14, 2022 Feb 14, 2022

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The "media" meta always seems to be the full, original clip. The Subclip meta shows that actual subclip, so that to me explains your first query of the video. The panel is giving you both the full length of the original clip and the subclip data. You can see both.

 

As to the issue with the "video" in/out points, and being dropped frame, what's the Preferences setting for "Indeterminate Media Timebase" ... is that set to drop frame or non-drop frame?

 

Neil

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Participant ,
Feb 14, 2022 Feb 14, 2022

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I changed it recently - past week sometime, to non-drop frame.

 

Incidentally, just created a new project, brought in a "master" avi file, created one subclip, and after initially looking ok for Video In and Video Out for the subclip, it all of the sudden changed the Video Out to a time before Video In.  I'm wondering if my master files are corrupt.

 

As to the "media" start/end/duration - this is a screenshot I took when I created this post - but decided not to include it, as I was trying to address one thing at a time. It shows one subclip that A. has the correct Video In/Out, and B. it has the same values for the "media" start/end/duration.  I'm not sure why this subclip is different from all of the others. Would be great if someone could make a subclip from a clip they have, and see how all of these fields update. I'll try it myself with some some video unrelated to this project.

 

brandtryan_0-1644866537567.png

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 14, 2022 Feb 14, 2022

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Definitely keep posting. As yes, some things Pr does with meta is ... not helpful.

 

Neil

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Guide ,
Feb 15, 2022 Feb 15, 2022

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Perhaps there is a bug. You can file a bug report. 

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Participant ,
Feb 15, 2022 Feb 15, 2022

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Just hit end of my Vimeo Pro trial - and apparently that caused the latest video I posted to disappear. At any rate, I'll post a bug - and link to video on my google drive.

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Participant ,
Feb 15, 2022 Feb 15, 2022

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Bug sumitted (I actually had already submitted one - but before I had taken a deep dive into the problem) so I've updated it and included a video attachment. I've also re-attached it here.

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Guide ,
Feb 15, 2022 Feb 15, 2022

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I see how the two methods have a different result but it seems like it might be a bug. What did Adobe say?

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Participant ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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They haven't said anything as of yet - see link above and it goes right to the bug submitted.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 16, 2022 Feb 16, 2022

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And I was happy to go upvote this ...

 

Neil

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