Maximum bit depth in source monitor

[davidtarrodi]

I work with studio footage and very smooth gradient backgrounds.

3840x2160

Prores HQ 10bit

When putting these clips in a seqence by "drag and drop" the sequence setting makes the gradients get very bad banding. Changing the sq settings enabling "maximum bit depth" fixes the problem. I can now edit as I want in the sequence. However, when I open a clip in source monitor the banding is present again and I find no way to make the banding go away permanentaly. 

This is the crazy part:

If I open a clip in source monitor the banding is present in the gradients. Going into "general settings" under preferences and checking "enable dynamic range" + pressing ok, the banding goes away and the footage is displayed correctly. Then I open another clip, banding is present. Going into "general settings" the "enable dynamic range" is still enabled. If I disable it and press ok, the badning goes away. I can do this back and forth. Every other clip is being displayed with banding. The enabling / disabling of the setting "enable dynamic range" doesn't seem to reflect what the sourve monitor is displaying.

[R Neil Haugen]

Huh ... this seems odd to me, and I can't replicate this on my Win10 rigs. Never seen it, actually.

I'm wondering what the clips are ... as far as whether they are Rec.709 or 'normal' video, or if the camera is setting them as PQ/HLG or something. What's the color space of the clips?

Neil

[davidtarrodi]

Thanks for you answer.

They are all in Rec. 709 Color space. 

Camera: Z Cam E2F6

3840x2160 50p

Prores HQ 10bit

Yes it is strange. Isn't there a global setting for premiere pro projects that let you decide to use maximum bit depth at all times? If I uncheck that box in the sequence settings the banding is visible in sequences too. By default my sequences is created with the maximum bit depth box unchecked so I have to manually open seq settings and change it.

[R Neil Haugen]

They don't have a place anywhere to set a "global" preference for MaxDepth.

From thorough testing of this, it did not USED to be a thing to worry about hardly ever. But as they've been rebuilding the code, I think some things have changed. Jarle Leirpoll did some fantastic testing recently going way into the weeds looking for inter-reactional things and found that there are many times now where having MBD on in both sequence and export is necessary to get full 32 bit float processing all the way through.

I've had a couple engineers tell me that should not be the case ... but I could replicate a couple of Jarle's scenarios and well, know the guy's work and experience. He is one of the most trustable people on PrPro out there. So ... MBD may be a wise choice to have simply on.

Even if it's a pain to set it manually every time.

Neil

[davidtarrodi]

Thanks Neil.

It is not that much of a deal for me to set it manually, however I would like the MBD to be reflecting the source monitor as well not just the timeline. As I said; the timeline is constantly giving me MBD if I've set it up in SQ settings but the source monitor keeps giving me ugly banding and I cannto figure out a way to fix that permanentaly even if I would have to set it up for every new project.

/ David

[R Neil Haugen]

The source monitor isn't something I worry about at all. It doesn't really represent anything other than a sort of "proof" window. Not like the Program monitor, Reference Monitor, and Transmit Out, where you are actually trying to see "final" quality.

Neil

[davidtarrodi]

Perhaps you're right. It just seemed so typical when working in Premiere Pro that things get really strange and buggy as I described in my first post. What is the purpose of those settings under "general" if they end up with different results when enabling/disabling a setting?  I would like to get in touch with someone who work with the Premiere code to ask som general questions about the software build. To me it seems the users know the software better then the people working at the actual support.

[R Neil Haugen]

The easiest way to talk with an engineer is to go to a live event such as NAB/Vegas or IBC/Amsterdam where Adobe has a large booth & presence. Although it seems they're not planning on attending NAB this fall. Other than that, it ain't easy.

Their support via phone or chat system can be spotty ... some clearly don't know hardly anything, some are quite good. Product Support staffer Kevin Monahan, who you'll see around here a fair amount, always recommends asking for the video que as soon as you get a "live body" via phone or text. Most users of course don't know that option exists.

It gets you out of the generalists with a cheat-sheet and to the people that have some knowledge of the program. Vastly better help in general.

And around here, between the various ACPs, we've got a good cadre of volunteers with pretty solid working knowledge of the app covering most workflows. No, we don't know the coding of course, as we aren't staff or engineers. We don't know the reasons many things are as they are, but "we" know some of the reasoning.

I do know the Source monitor is there simply for say going down a clip to find the place you want to cut into a sequence. They're not worried about visual excellence for that. It's not considered a "final" view.

Neil