Premiere introduces banding in Exports

Report · Dec 14, 2016

We've been having this issue for some time... and looking through the forums I see that people have been complaining about this problem as far back as CS6. I should also add that the people commenting in the past have been on both Macs and Windows. So this looks to be an engine problem not a platform-specific issue.

Before you comment, let me ensure you this isn't a color bit-depth setting problem within Premiere itself... this is purely an issue introduced when exporting video out of Premiere regardless of the output files target bit depth.

I can confirm this is STILL an issue under Adobe Premiere CC 2017.

I've also seen subtle color shifting occur when exporting out of Premiere. But I digress back to the original topic.

To preface I should state that each of our guys tasked on attempting to solve this problem in the studio have well over two decades of post-production technical experience.

Source media in the Premiere timeline are ProRes4444 (also tried ProRes422HQ).

Viewing them in Premiere they look perfect. However, the exported file has significant banding introduced into the output file.

We have tried exporting in every single ProRes format available... without any difference in the introduced banding.

We've tried every thing possible we could think of:

1) Setting sequence to maximum color depth

2) Setting sequence to maximum render quality

3) Setting export to maximum quality

4) Disabling metadata at the export

5) Exporting to various tile types and bit depths.

Nothing changes the output.

We've attempted exporting an animation codec version which also has the banding, but barely reduced overall.

HOWEVER... if you IMPORT this project into After Effects and render the timeline from within After Effects.... there isn't any banding at all. So clearly there is a major issue within the export engine that Premiere uses. Our only work around to ensure there isn't banding, as well as not having the color shift I briefly mentioned, is to import the timeline into After Effects and rendering from there.

This is a significant flaw in Premiere that is just mind-boggling that it has existed for at least 4 years at the minimum. Adobe should be putting this problem at the top of their bug fix list for Premiere.

Let me reiterate that our exports from Premiere were set to Maximum bit depth and maximum render quality. And we rendered to ProRes4444 files.... the same format in which the files were sourced... but banding was introduced.

Report · Dec 14, 2016

Did you read this color banding in Premiere exports ?

Report · Dec 14, 2016

Yes.... that's actually where I started doing my research. The answer isn't in there. There is clearly an actual issue with their render engine inside Premiere that doesn't exist in After Effects.

Report · Dec 15, 2016

Hi DWalla,

I can verify that another customer is having the issue and we do have a bug filed. If you could file separately with your own observations, it would be enormously helpful. Here's a link to the Bug Report form.

I apologize for this issue. I can understand how frustrating that might be.

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

Report · Feb 08, 2017

Hi Kevin, after the recent updates i hoped the banding export issue was resolved, but it still is not. can i expect a solution soon or do i have to find other software to edit with?

thanx, pim

Report · Feb 08, 2017

For right now the only real editing solutions with clear color-accuracy tools are FCPX and Davinci. Premiere has serious enough issues that I can't recommend using it for anything that requires accurate color or gradients.

Report · Feb 08, 2017

What kind of hardware acceleration were you using for the render, if any?

Report · Apr 13, 2017

We've exported this on numerous machines from iMacs to Mac Pros all using different video cards. Nvidia as well as AMD. Exact same results on all machines. No issue if you take the project into After Effects and render the Premiere timeline out of AE. Everything is flawless using the AE render engine.

Report · Apr 13, 2017

Fascinating. I know a number of colorists who work with PrPro outputs in Resolve every day (well, most days ... ) ... on their massively expensive, heavily calibrated setups with more money on the calibration systems than my entire suite, outputting files to national broadcasting and such, who aren't having any issue.

So it wouldn't seem to be an "everybody has this" issue. Or they'd be yelling about it.

Which gets back to wondering what it is that is causing this for your group, and as Kevin noted, the other client. I do seriously wish they'd get this sorted though because that sort of thing is just a big freaking wall. Banding ... ain't usable.

Neil

Report · Apr 13, 2017

Taking the timeline from PP to Resolve isn't the same as exporting from PP. Basically you're bringing the project into Resolve and doing your colorist work on the source files. This is completely different. BTW... we use Resolve for a lot of colorist work. But we do get some fast projects where the client doesn't want to pay the extra for the Resolve process. So exports come directly out of PP... and banding (as well as slight color shifts) absolutely happen out of PP. If we take the PP project and import it into AE or Resolve, there are zero banding issues. This is clearly a problem with Adobe's export engine under PP only.

Report · Apr 14, 2017

Again, fascinating. And frustrating!

Neil

Report · Jun 15, 2020

Also a problem for me in 2020 with 10bit Sony FS7 footage. Export with max render quality 16bpc, software only rendering to either ProRes HQ or CineForm. The export bands like it's 8bit! All effects on the clips are 32bpc and the preview/program in Premiere does not display any banding at all... 😞

(Latest version PPro, Windows, Nvidia GPU)

Report · Jun 16, 2020

Max Render Q is only to help with frame resizing when you are getting jaggies on diagonal lines. It does nothing to help for normal exports, and under some circumstances oddly enough can induce artificats so I always leave that unchecked.

When you export the file that appears banded, does it look so when re-imported into Premiere?

Neil

Report · Apr 20, 2017

And again, i was hoping that it is solved after the latest update, but NO AGAIN. still severe banding on exports. it doesn't matter which render engine i use. I only have the problem when shooting with the canon c300 MK2, XFAVC intra codec that is.

Pim

Report · Apr 20, 2017

File that bug report form again, and ... as with most of their roll-outs, they've got some stuff to work on it seems.

Neil

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Report · Apr 20, 2017

This problem has continued to exist since CS6.

Report · Apr 20, 2017

Banding appears regardless of the codec I've used when exporting. It's very irritating. Seems like the Premiere Pro team needs to walk across the hall and talk to the After Effects team and figure out what they are doing right.

Report · Apr 20, 2017

I don't think the two teams are actually "across the hall" ... they're pretty spread out across the world, with a center of the boss & some of the folks. But I think even those are in different cities.

Now ... they obviously do do a lot of their work collaborating via the wonderful world of web ...

Neil

Report · Apr 20, 2017

I can't believe you took me literally.... /smh

Report · Apr 20, 2017

I didn't ... but I've found over the years here that so many folks read a comment in a thread and then "know" that say, " ... the PrPro & Ae development teams are like literally across the hall from each other ... why don't the stoops actually like, talk to each other? ... sheesh ... "

So it seems somewhat prudent to make a light reference to the way they're actually structured as a perhaps educational moment for the many who'll view through this thread. Going to NAB or MAX and getting to meet some of the team members of various programs, it's fascinating how many countries they're from. And quite a few of the apps actually have the teams based in Asia or Europe or somewhere.

Neil

Report · Apr 20, 2017

DWalla: I know this thread has been lively (and hopefully helpful) since Dec 2016 but I wonder if you could post a screen shot of what kind of banding you're talking about. Perhaps show the same shot in the Program monitor as as you've output it?

Report · Apr 21, 2017

This has been going on for longer than December 2016. Just this thread is that old.

I don't have any screenshots at the moment, as we've moved off using PP for any color correction. We use it for editing but do all of our renders out of either AE or Davinci. I do check it every patch or two to see if anything has changed. It's easy to replicate though and it's not an occasional issue. It happens every time.

There are two key problems with PP export:

1) Banding is introduced in the gradients

2) There is a small color-shift that occurs on all exports

These occur regardless of which codec is the source for the media, the sequence settings, or the export settings.

For instance... or first notice of color shift issues is when we were doing a fairly intense color correction piece for a particular client. We noticed that no matter how we got the footage to look on screen, the color would shift on output. This is when we first discovered the AE fix. Import the PP sequence into AE and export and the color would be accurate.

We noticed the banding when working on a firearms piece for a manufacturer. We had produced a piece in 3D and were assembling the elements into the edit in PP. The source footage was all QuickTime ProRes 4444. The sequence was also QuickTime ProRes 4444. And the export settings were identical to the sequence. While watching the edit on screen, everything looked perfect. Both on the display as well as the output monitor. However, when we exported the file, banding showed up in the gradients. It was clearly visible in a side-by-side comparison between the source 3D files and the exported files. Again, we imported the PP project into AE and exported to QuickTime ProRes 4444 and it looked perfect.

If I get some free time I'll see if I can put together some screen shot comparisons.

Report · Mar 26, 2018

We experience this exact issue, and likewise solve it by rendering Premiere sequences out of After Effects. We have tried all kinds of bit depth/file format experiments just like DWalla, and are confident that this problem is created as a result of using Premiere's export engine (Media Encoder via Premiere exhibits the same issue).

This issue must be addressed for Premiere to be a viable editing option for us.

HP z840

Intel Xeon E5-2680 v4 @ 2.4GHz (x2)

128 GB RAM

nVidia Quadro M6000 24GB (driver 391.03)

Report · Mar 26, 2018

I can't answer in great specifics, as you've not given any. But ... are you using 8-bit effects in those sequences? Especially if you use them before the last bit, in the processing chain, you are more likely to get this.

Neil

Report · Mar 26, 2018

Thanks for the reply. I have not included any further details because DWalla's multiple posts state in great detail the problem we are experiencing, and the remedies we have attempted.