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preview monitor looks different from exported product and Compensation LUT not working correctly

Participant ,
Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

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My footage in the premier monitor looks different than the exported product. When i imported the footage, premier made the footage look darker and more saturated. So i tested out the exported product and it looked fine (identical to the raw footage before importing into premier). My working color space is set to rec701. Same with my sequence settings. I downloaded adobes gamma compensation LUT and applied it but that made it worse (made it look darker). Is there any way to make the preview monitor match the color of the exported video? It makes it much harder to color correct knowing that the exported product is going to look different than what im seeing in premier. Im working off a macbook pro by the way. 

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LEGEND , Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

First thing, color management is not precisely ... precise ... across platforms, devices, screens, viewing envirionments ... you need to appreciate that statement fully. Even just going from a dark room to a noon park bench will change the apparent image view.

 

Second, you're clearly working on a Mac. Which hath it's own issues. The Rec.709 standard, updated with the Bt.1886 addendum many years ago, states the color space is sRGB, primary is D65, and the camera transforms and display transforms

...

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Community Expert ,
Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

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Participant ,
Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

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I've already looked at that article. Thats how i found out about the compensation LUT. My issue is that particular compensation LUT is actually doing the opposite for my footage and making it look unusally dark when its applied. 

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LEGEND ,
Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

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First thing, color management is not precisely ... precise ... across platforms, devices, screens, viewing envirionments ... you need to appreciate that statement fully. Even just going from a dark room to a noon park bench will change the apparent image view.

 

Second, you're clearly working on a Mac. Which hath it's own issues. The Rec.709 standard, updated with the Bt.1886 addendum many years ago, states the color space is sRGB, primary is D65, and the camera transforms and display transforms of (respectively) 1.96 and 2.4 need be applied on all systems running Rec.709 video.

 

But Apple, for some reason, created their ColorSync color management utility for displaying images on the Mac Retina screens with an incomplete "Rec.709" setup. As they leave out the required 2.4 display gamma. They instead apply the camera transform function of 1.95 to the image.

 

That's the cause of the difference, affecting nearly all Mac displays, and all fully Rec.709 compliant displays.

 

There's no way fully around this, as you simply cannot create an image that looks the same when displayed at two widely different gammas.

 

Working color on a Mac

 

When working on a Mac one should nearly always have the Preferences option of "Display Color Management" enabled. In fact, most non-Mac users probably should if you haven't run a regular calibration & profile process with a puck & software on your monitor/s.

 

And also, understand this allows you to see a probably more correct Rec.709 image within Premiere, including that Bt.1886 requirement for 2.4 display gamma. This means the file, when exported and viewed on a fully compliant Rec.709 viewing system like for broadcast ... will appear as you expect.

 

But viewed outside Premiere on that same Mac ... it may or may not appear as you expect depending on several factors. Including what alternate settings your OS/monitor allow you to make and what app/viewer you see the file over.

 

Mac settings: there are some Macs that seem to allow the user to get into the weeds a bit on color management, including something about a "reference" option, which may get you a 2.4 monitor gamma ... or not ... I'm not fully conversant on that issue. Most Macs ... or at least Mac users ... don't either have that option, or may not understand where it is or how to use it.  I know some Mac users say they've changed something there, and it's better.

 

Some iPad Pros, for instance, if you know how to set them up with their internal settings, can give amazingly accurate Rec.709 images.

 

The viewing app or process: this is another variable that is ... well, variable. If you can't figure out how to get that Mac to show Rec.709 images with a 2.4 gamma, then what you see will depend on how you watch it.

 

For instance ... any app that allows ColorSync to handle CM will show the image with that 1.96 display gamma. So the shadows are lifted notably, the mids some, and the image seems less saturated. (By the way, there's nothing at all wrong with the file. On my fully Rec.709 compliant system for one, and most non-Mac setups, it will display correctly.)

 

So Chrome and Safari browsers and QuickTime player allow ColorSync to handle CM. And will display the file with that lighter, less-saturated appearance.

 

Firefox however will probably show the file closer to how you saw it within Premiere. As will VLC player.

 

Again, it's the same file, Premiere makes a correct file, your Mac just displays it ... uniquely Mac-ish.

 

Fixes Don't Actually Fix this!

 

Because again, there's nothing wrong with the file, only a ... disagreement ... on how to display it.

 

So ... you kinda have to pick your poison. If you apply the "Gamma Compensation LUT" on export, it will darken the file down ... and it will look sorta like it did in Premiere but only when viewed on a Mac in Chrome, Safari, and Qt player. And remember, you work the file in Pr as "normal" ... then in the Export process, apply the Gamma Compensation LUT.

 

However ... that file will now be way too dark and oversaturated when played on any non-Mac Rec.709 compliant screen.

 

BlackMagic created the "Rec.709-A" export option (and yes, A is for Apple), which applies a different NCLC tag to the file header. That's way down into the weeds, by the bye. Anyway, the BM devs found that by tagging the file header 1-2-1 (rather than Rec.709's listed 1-1-1) ... that for some unknown reason, Macs will apply the correct 2.4 gamma to the display.

 

Which is really odd because the official status of that second tag .. .the 2? ... is unspecified. As in, there is no official listed use for that tag number. Yet Macs see that number tag, and apply 2.4 gamma to the display.

 

And it gets even better ... a file with a 1-2-1 tagging displayed on a normal Rec.709 compliant non-Mac machine ... will display way too dark and over-saturated. Pretty much like the file with the Gamma Compensation LUT involved.

 

So neither Adobe nor BlackMagic can fix what Apple chose to do ... uniquely. Nor can we users.

 

"It is what it is" ... and so you have to choose your own path out.

 

Apply the LUT ... and know it may look mostly correct on Mac screens, but that on all non-Mac screens it's too dark/oversaturated.

 

Don't apply the LUT, it's too light/unsaturated on Macs, correct on all non-Macs.

 

Or ... split the difference. Make it a bit dark prior to export, so that it's a wee bit light on Macs, a wee bit dark on non-Macs.

 

Whichever, it's ... up to you. Sorry but that's the best one can do. I work for/with/teach pro colorists, mostly total Mac geeks, who are ticked as Hades at this also. They can't fix it, thee & me certainly can't.

 

Neil

 

 

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Participant ,
Feb 28, 2023 Feb 28, 2023

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Thank you Neil for your assistance! I think the route i'll go is splitting the difference

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LEGEND ,
Feb 28, 2023 Feb 28, 2023

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That's really the most useful thing to try. And of course, we all wish it wasn't necessary. But oh well, if wishes were horses, right?

 

The general guessing as to why Apple went with only the camera transform is the idea that the Bt.1886 addendum shouldn't be necessary. It was designed to match flat digital screens to the 'native' display of the older CRT tubes. And we haven't had that forth & back for years.

 

Well ... ok, true, but ... Bt.1886's display transform was officially adopted for all b-cast work period, and is literally part of the full "modern" Rec.709 specs. Used by everyone.

 

So unilaterally deciding to go their unique route ... well, the only certainty was that it would cause this mess. Sigh.

 

Neil

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