Project/Bin Headers: How to change what is displayed with greater speed and ease

Enthusiast ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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Currently control over which headers (i.e. Metadata columns) are displayed in the Project/Bin Panel is a bit on the clumsy side.

When editing the need to update what info is displayed in what moment is a constantly and fast changing thing.  The Bin Panel displays need to keep pace.

For instance...

  In one moment you want to see your project items' Media Duration or Start time.

  The next you're thinking content, and it's Description / Comments

  Then for media management you're looking at OS File Path & Name.

  It on and on: Frame Rate (24, 23.976, 30, etc), Aspect Ratio, Video & Audio Usage, Proxy Connects and Paths.

...the faster and more efficient the ability to switch between Bin Panel columns the better.

Unfortunately this aspect of PPro is encumbered in a few ways:

  a) Changing the headers involves at least 5 clicks:

  1 - Open Metadata Display Popup (right click column headers)

  2 - Choose Metadata display...

  3 - Settings Pulldown

  4 - Select Setting

  5 - OK button

  b) Step 3 above reveals a list of items listed in hard-to-reckon order.  It's not alphabetical.  Maybe order of creation?  Whatever it is, it's not easily or obviously manageable.

  Compare all that to Avid which has a single pull-down menu that maintains alphabetical order and takes 2 clicks to change a Bin View.

Some improvements that would transform this corner of PPro:

  - Ability to switch Bin Displays from directly within a Bin Panel in 1 or two clicks

  - Ability to remove a column from directly within a Bin Panel (Doesn't delete the data, just the visibility of the column)

  - Ability to add custom Metadata Properties by directly typing them into empty space in the Property Headers bar (If custom property does yet not exist, it gets added. If it does, any pre-existing property data populates the column)

  - Ability to save a Metadata Display view from directly within a Bin Panel

  - Ability to not only sort based on a column, but also sub-sort, sub-sub-sort, so that columns with repeating values can be sub-sorted on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th columns etc.

These features would greatly increase ease of asset management, navigation, and the ability to organize and find media quickly and easily.

Feature request posted here: Ability to Change Bin Columns with greater speed and ease – Adobe video & audio apps

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LEGEND ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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Keep all the columns you will need open.  Scroll horizontally to the ones you wish to see in the moment.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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Jim_Simon  wrote

Keep all the columns you will need open.  Scroll horizontally to the ones you wish to see in the moment.

So imagine the following scenarios:

For 5 minutes I care about seeing only those items that were shot in UHD that have or don't have Proxies.

(Relevant columns are "Video Info", "Proxy", "Proxy Media File Path"

5 minutes later a producer is wondering if what we shot on June 15 was UHD vs HD.

(Relevant columns are "Video Info", "Creation Date" (or "Shot Date").

and 5 minutes later I need to know the footage shot by Victor (one of several shooters) featured b-roll of a chemical factory (there are several).

(Relevant columns are "Director Photography", "Description")

What I don't want are 200 columns on display, scrolling back and forth to make these correlations.

I'm looking for definitive answers to complex questions in short order.

I care about seeing only the relevant ones, sorting (and sub-sorting) those columns to get answers quickly and easily.

This is every day all day.

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Advocate ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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Adobe.com/go/wish should lead you to the new feature request site. Paste link to request back here and I would add +1 to it.

Absolutely there are some very fundamental  Avid features that Adobe have not copied yet (its main inspiration was FCP7).

Bin & clip metadata display is much more mature in Avid. (cf timecode burn-in - in avid theres all kinds of metadata available)

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 10, 2018 Jul 10, 2018

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Trevor_Asq  wrote

Adobe.com/go/wish should lead you to the new feature request site. Paste link to request back here and I would add +1 to it.\

Ability to Change Bin Columns with greater speed and ease – Adobe video & audio apps

Trevor_Asq  wrote

Absolutely there are some very fundamental  Avid features that Adobe have not copied yet (its main inspiration was FCP7).

Bin & clip metadata display is much more mature in Avid. (cf timecode burn-in - in avid theres all kinds of metadata available)

PPro v Avid Tradeoffs

Avid is better in the following ways:

- More fluent UI when it comes to changing "Bin Views" (aka "Metadata Display..." in PPro)

- Presents list of Bin Views in alphabetical order (vs seemingly random order in PPro)

- Allows multi-column sorting: sort, sub-sort, sub-sub-sort, etc (vs PPro which is single-column only sorting, as far as I know.

Premiere however...

- Works more fluently with Metadata, giving it greater ability to cross-communicate with other apps.  It's truly brilliant on this front.

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Advocate ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

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Premiopolis  wrote

Premiere however...

- Works more fluently with Metadata, giving it greater ability to cross-communicate with other apps.  It's truly brilliant on this front.

I'm sure you are right but personally I see better metadata from EVS clips & also from Sony cameras in Avid than in PPro.

Certainly in terms of sifting / sorting within bins then Avid is the hands down winner currently. Hopefully Adobe will have advances in this soon. 

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Advocate ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

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Also pretty sure I end up using Media-Info whenever I want to get track metadata from audio files in PPro.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

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Trevor_Asq  wrote

personally I see better metadata from EVS clips & also from Sony cameras in Avid than in PPro.

I knew Avid had gotten more involved with metadata, but I haven't had a chance to check up on it yet.

I think PPro's en route to something brilliant and breakthrough in editing.  I hope they recognize it.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 10, 2018 Jul 10, 2018

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What I don't want are 200 columns on display, scrolling back and forth to make these correlations.

You only listed 7 or 8 that are used.  That's pretty manageable...and possibly your fastest option at the moment.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 10, 2018 Jul 10, 2018

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Jim_Simon  wrote

You only listed 7 or 8 that are used.  That's pretty manageable...and possibly your fastest option at the moment.

It turns out there are actually more than 200.  After a deep dive into all this it turns out there are at least 470 -- and I thought I was exaggerating at 200.

Anyhow, of that ludicrous list I use about 20, depending on what we're doing at any given moment:

OS level media management, Proxy renders, Video work, Audio overview, actual editing.

One of the reasons this matters so much has to do with the nature of the work environment:

Massive quantities of media files delivered in an disorderly fashion by DIT-free productions, multiple cameras models, codecs, and file formats.  The producer in charge tends to fly off the handle because the "media is missing" or "you already have it" in spite of being the one who re-names original media, moves it to multiple locations, makes half-hearted attempts at backing up, egregiously duping folders in the name of pre-organizing footage, and misplacing hard drives.

To counter this without resorting to a fist fight means knowing exactly what you have, when it arrived, in what format and being able to push out reality-affirming lists quickly and easily.

I wish I could say it's an unusual "crazy producer" scenario but it's increasingly common.  This particular one has 20 years experience and is in fact very talented in terms of getting together stories and securing interviews.  But media management (as well as emotional management) are not fortes.

Suffice it to say: if it all it took were 7 or 8 columns to wrangle order from chaos, I'd be thrilled.  20 at least.  For all I know this crazy show may need all 470.

Interested to hear the results...

The ExtendScript approach is working.  What I can't get it to do so far is order the columns.  But It turns out the Metadata Display... popup can't either -- some kind of system limitation to be figured out.  In any event going code on this offers a considerable improvement over the existing UI.

They can be made to appear and disappear in any configuration at the click of a button.  It's very cool.

If I can get the column ordering to adjust as well, it'll be a nice breakthrough.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 10, 2018 Jul 10, 2018

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The metadata columns are saved as part of the workspace layout so assuming you always worked with the same panel layouts you could assign a schema to different workspaces and then switch workspace with one click/button. Not pretty but it might work for some.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 10, 2018 Jul 10, 2018

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mikedzk  wrote

The metadata columns are saved as part of the workspace layout so assuming you always worked with the same panel layouts you could assign a schema to different workspaces and then switch workspace with one click/button. Not pretty but it might work for some.

It actually might, but it could also get messy quickly.

It turns out -- for those patient enough to deal with ExtendScript, showing / hiding columns can be controlled programatically.  Testing this.  So far it not only works, it may end up being an approach that beats PPro's current UI and even Avid's.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 10, 2018 Jul 10, 2018

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Interested to hear the results...

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