Question on Proxy Workflow with Merged Clips

[samm7417356]

Hi all-

I'm struggling to find a solution for an issue I'm having.

I'm a student that gave some 4k XAVC footage over to an AE to sync footage using the merge clip tool. She did this but I'm now recognizing that XAVC isn't such a edit friendly codec, even with a heavy processor behind it so I'm trying to figure out a way to alter my process to a proxy workflow.

I've unfortunately found out the hard way that the new CC proxy workflow doesn't apply to merged clips (Adobe, consider this a filed support request!) but I'm realizing that even a manual re-link isn't working because when I "make offline" my merged clips, that applies to the synced audio too. So when I re-link, the synced audio is pulling from the proxy video files.

The only solution I can come up with is to make proxies and re-sync each of those by hand.

Is there really no way to point video files to proxies once they're merged?

[Finlay26880976rzlu]

Thank you for the help guys, I really appreciate it! 

I think the issue may have come from the update, as prior to it the proxies were matched perfectly with no issue. Will I have to re-do the proxies or is there an option to change the ratios in Premiere? 

Cheers! 

[Media Kingpin]

Even better... Just ask how much smaller we want our proxies! Don't me the editor do the math at all to come up with HxW. Just have the editor choose 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, 1/10. or 75%, 50%, 25% 10%, or even Large, Medium, Small, Tiny, and have PP do the math. Manually entering your own HxW should be a nerdy "pro" option

I don't think anybody out there really cares about the resolution of their proxies. They just want the footage to look unsquished but lower res and at a smaller drive size. They're temp files that get junked in the end.

[MyerPj]

You can make a preset if you like. Be sure to use ProRes or Cineform proxies, the whole idea of them is to make editing better and faster. They work really well in PP.

[zachary_red]

I have also found that creating the proxies after creating the merged clips will not link them to the merged clips, only the originals. Seems like an oversight on Adobe's part. Maybe there is a reason that someone would not want them to automatically link, but the fact that there isn't even an option to link them is pretty weak.

[Warren Heaton]

Merged clips in a Proxy workflow work exactly as they should.

Probably the most important thing to understand is that the proxy file is made from and attached to the High Resolution clip.  Then the user can switch between the High Resolution file of the Proxy file being used, even if the High Resolution file is part of merged clip.

Proxy files can be created and/or attached before or after merging.  Also, one would never export the Merged clip itself as a proxy as there’s nothing to attach to afterward.

[zachary_red]

"You never attach to a merged clip."

Yes, I know that. It's not even possible.

"Proxy files can be created and/or attached before or after merging."

I have found this to not be true. Have you successfully attached proxies after creating merged clips?

Today I was creating merged clips while creating proxies in the background using EditReady.

When I attached those proxies to the original high resolution clips, the proxies worked perfectly fine for the originals. However, the merged clips did not adopt these proxies.

As some else mentioned earlier in this thread.

"...when I moved the project to a new computer I had to re-create the proxies.  The merged clips DID NOT update to use the new proxies.  Now I have a library of original source clips with proxies and merged clips that refuse to use the proxies."

So from what I gather, merged clips in a Proxy workflow DO NOT work exactly as they should. Once you link new proxies to the High Res originals, those proxies should be adopted by any merged clip that uses said original.

[Warren Heaton]

Yes, I have attached proxies before and after merging clips.  I have also merged clips while I have Offline Full Resolution, but Proxy is Online.

While EditReady is a great application, you're creating proxies outside of the Create Proxies Workflow.  Even though that is supported via Attach Proxies, Reconnect Full Resolution Media and Toggle/Enable Proxies, I'd try removing that step in your troubleshooting of this issue.

It's probably worth reviewing this information:

Adobe Premiere Pro Help | Ingest and Proxy Workflow in Adobe Premiere Pro CC

Especially this part:

Attach Proxies, Reconnect Full Resolution Media & Toggle/Enable Proxies

These two options are used for manual attachment of Proxy or Full Res media. These options are useful if you create proxy media outside of the Create Proxies workflow (for example, media created via third party software, hardware, or a combination of both) or you want to reattach Proxy or Full Res media to Offline clips. The supported workflow allows attachment of Proxies with other frame sizes & PAR (pixel aspect ratio) combinations that are divisible by the Full Res clip (for example, 1920x1080 1.0 PAR Full Res and 960x540 1.0 PAR Proxy or 1440x1080 1.33 PAR Proxy), but other parameters such as fielding, frame rate, duration, and audio channels must match. Mismatched audio channels results in warning dialogs and are not allowed, but other mismatched video parameters are not blocked and results in issues.

-Warren

[zachary_red]

I am attaching a link to a video here, so maybe you or someone else can point me to where I am going wrong.

Here are my steps:

-Create a project.

-Import Video and Audio track

-Create a merged clip from the timeline (named it BEFORE_PROXIES)

-Select the original master clip, right click, create proxy (I created a preset with a LUT and text overlay to make it obvious when the proxy is in use, but the problem exists no matter what preset I use.)

-Media Encoder renders out proxy

-Go back into Premiere, test merged clip. As you can see when toggling proxies the footage doesn't change.

-Create a new merged clip (named it AFTER_PROXIES)

-Now the proxies work

-Proxies do not work on the merged clip created before proxies, but do work on the merged clip created after the proxies.

Video Link Here

Warren Heaton

Yes, I have attached proxies before and after merging clips.

I don't know where my workflow differs from yours that allows your proxies to attach to the merged clips that were made before attaching proxies. Please let me know.

[andrewc84118612]

I must second that creating proxies AFTER merging clips WILL NOT allow the merged clip to access the proxy media. Desperately looking for a solution.

[Mavkka]

I can confirm you're right. I'm having the same issue. Just tested making a merged clip after making a proxy, and it worked. So silly that they haven't implemented a way for merged clips to update proxy information. If anyone has an update on this please let me know! I'd hate to spend hours making new merged clips for everything.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Mavkka,

Sorry that this feature is not available right now. Please let the team know how you feel by upvoting this feature request: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/36867817-proxies-with-merge....

Thank You!
Kevin

[Warren Heaton]

You only attach to the original High Resolution.

You never attach to a merged clip.

[Media Kingpin]

Right, merged clips won't even let you try to add a proxy. The problem is with adding a proxy to previously merged master files. If you merge A001c001.MXF with S001T001.wav to make a merge clip named 1_1,  and then you attach a proxy to A001c001.MXF, the proxy will show up fine for A001c001, but when you pull up 1_1, the proxy is not attached. It's a MASSIVE pain in my backside right now. I just found that I forgot to attach proxies on some of the shoot days and now instead of being able to just attach to the master files and have everything update downstream from there in the merged clips, I have to trash all of those merges and rebuilt them with the proxies attached BEFORE merging. 

I would really love it if Adobe would send their programmers on a US tour so real editors can yell at them face to face to motivate them to fix all the stupid little things in the application.

[nessieb13899206]

I don't understand how it works for you but doesn't for most.  I'm also havign the same issue wheere

Proxy is not trigered when working with the merged clips.  

As an experiment, I tried deletering the original files before the merged and surprisingly, the MERGED files were not affected.  It seems like the Merged files are a totally seperate files and are not using the Original files.

MERGED FILES are New Files not associated with the Original files, so this is why Creating Proxies before merged probably doesnt work and if it does, you are stuck with Proxy files.

[Warren Heaton]

Hopefully one of the Adobe Staff can chime in.

[R Neil Haugen]

Media_Kingpin,

You are correct about there being a ton of issues with the entire proxy workflow. Including your current troubles, merged clips. You're clearly more skilled at getting past some issues than many other users ... I'm impressed with your willingness to fight that battle.

The Adobe development staffs for Premiere, Audition, AfterEffects, and several other apps are all present and available for discussions at NAB in Vegas every April, IBC in Amsterdam every September ... I'm thinking probably also the NYC version of the NAB thing also. Plus at Adobe MAX in November. So over the course of a year, they get several thousand users talking at them face-to-face. I've done so, and I STRONGLY encourage anyone reading this ... if you attend any of the pro motion video events where Adobe has a booth, talk to them!

They're actually very approachable. I think every one I've talked with is an editor for passion or pay in their own time. So they actually look at this both as a user and engineer. But ... oh my ... some of them are so an engineer ... sigh.

There are quite a few issues with the proxy process ... and one of the biggest ones is the total lack of user choice over audio matchings. That message that it couldn't create proxies because of an audio mismatch is just WRONG. What it should do is then give the user options to MAKE the proxies. To match them with either multicam or merged clips.

One of the things that did come from my time at Adobe MAX in LA last month, was talking with an engineer who reads nearly every post written on their UserVoice bug/features system. And he wanted more posts ... and particularly, more detailed reports.

Past that of course ... Adobe lives by metrics. So give them some.

Over on the UserVoice  they have several posts on merged clips, proxies, and multicam problems. Search ... post on one or more over there. Then come back here and post a link. I'll certainly vote on it ... though I've voted on a number of those!

Neil

[michaelduffy1884]

I had a problem somewhat similar.   I attached proxies to my HiRez footage then SYNCed my footage and made Merged Clips.   This worked perfectly well until I sent the project file to another editor.   His system coiuldn't relink the footage to the merged clips.   It would only link the HiRez and not the proxy.   In the Project Panel when I right click the Proxy option is greyed out and impossible to attach a Proxy to merged clips.   The only trick that worked was to export an XML then import that XML and magically it would allow the proxy to be attached.

MERGE clips and PROXY dont play well together.   Fix it or delete the merge function. Or maybe a pop up warning window when you try to use that feature.   Total landmine. 

[R Neil Haugen]

I know of a number of users that never use the merged clips function for its many issues ... they use the multicam process. Works fine for say a bin with a bunch of camera/remote audio files. Select all, create multicam ... if you've got 12 different camera files each with a separate audio file in the bin ... it gives you 12 multicam 'clips' connected to their separate audio.

And many of the editing features and options such as top/tail cutting (Q/W keys) work with multicams and don't with merged.

Neil

[drakedits]

I just wanted to add a recent experience to this thread. Using the new Production workflow, I had the same issue where the proxies I had created on ingest did not appear to be attached to the clips after they were merged. A quick Save All, Quit and relaunch of PrPro sorted it out.

A big Like on R Neil Haugen's post above on using the Multicam workflow to merge audio and video clips. I got very irritated merging 47 clips one at a time.