any way to export a caption file from premiere to import in encore?

[Michael Grenadier]

need to do subtitles for an encore project for authoring dvd's and blu-rays.  Encore 6 (I know it's an antique) only accepts text script, FAB image script and Image script and the export options in premiere 2021 don't seem to include any of these.  Looks like I could export an .srt file and edit it the text so it might import into Encore but would love to find an easier way.    Seems like the 2 image script formats are somehow or other image files with the text burned in.  Is there a way to export either of these from Premier or via some other workflow?

Or are there any 3rd party utilities that might help?

Or do I need to buy a new authoring program? I've got macs and windows at my disposal.  The projects gonna be fairly complex with many bonus features and multiple language subtitle tracks...

I foolishly thought Encore would do what I needed and spent the last week figuring out how to get it loaded on both my mac and windows machines.  

Thanks

[Stan Jones]

Export srt. SubtitleEdit -> Save As and set "Save as type" to one of the "Adobe Encore " .txt options. I don't remember, unfortunately, which of the 4 types is the right one.

See Encore reference guide "Structure of text script files" for format.

It looks like it is either the "Ntsc" version (for drop frame semicolon timecodes) or "line #" for nondrop colon type.

Stan

[Michael Grenadier]

Thanks Stan, these options don't seem to be available in Prmeiere 2021.  Luckily I've got earlier versions to try....

Thanks

[Stan Jones]

Sorry; the options are for the free app SubtitleEdit. Just export srt from PR 2021.

Stan

[Michael Grenadier]

no apologies necessary.  Thanks again.

[Michael Grenadier]

these are the 3 options I see in premiere 2018 when I select the caption "clip" in the project bin and go to file:  export: caption.  Tried the timed text file without any success.  I may be missing something.  wouldn't be the first time.  Will dig in to the encore manual now.

[Michael Grenadier]

these are the only options I see on the version available on the apple app store,  this is just the unpaid version.  but wondering if I'm missing something.

[Michael Grenadier]

finally found this and it works

https://transcribefiles.net/other/pages/caption-subtitle-converter.htm

Now I've got to figure out the formatting options within Encore.   

The alternative is to create image files and output FAB Images Script or Image Script for importing into Encore.

Any ideas or pointers how to do this?  Been googling like crazy just to find a subtitle converter that worked.   Went to sleep last night in despair but got up this morning and jumped that hurdle.

[Stan Jones]

Re the export from PR 2018 (or any other PR version that supports it), you'd just export as srt. There are some gotchas, but I'd try that version first.

Ah, forget that SubtitleEdit is not available for Mac. I think Aegisub is an option some users try. for Aegisub, use the "Export subtitles as" and pick Encore. In the export process, you are prompted for the framerate and drop/nondrop. But their site is not working. Last release in 2014?

In any event, you found an option!

I would try the text script first. I recall that I thought it was simpler. Creating the image files can be complicated.

Stan

[Stan Jones]

Just checked, and this link is still the pdf for Encore CS6. The on line pages resolve to CS5.1.

https://help.adobe.com/archive/en/encore/cs6/encore_reference.pdf

Stan

[Michael Grenadier]

Thanks Stan.  Within Encore 6, seems like I can apply almost any font globally to the imported subtitles but wondering if there are actually font limitations for an authored dvd/bluray?  Will do a test authoring a disk image sometime soon to see what's what, but figure you've been so helpful so far, why not ask...

[Stan Jones]

Ask away! I was never focused on font support. There were other gotchas that don't come to mind right now...

Maybe it was that once you made those choices you couldn't change them without deleting the subtitle track and reimporting... Or some oddity of placement or the like. It will either work, or you'll discover those problems anew. Feel free to keep asking.

Stan

[Michael Grenadier]

Thanks.  Will report back on my findings in case anyone's interested although really feeling blu-ray/dvd authoring is not so slowly fading away.

[Michael Grenadier]

Stan, just wanted to say thanks for your help.  I was able to import the txt file converted from the srt file (output from Premiere 2021) into Encore 6 and do a 6 minute blu-ray test with a menu to turn the subtitles on and off.   The manual's not always particularly clear but I've figured it out and feel that now it's should be pretty straightforward.  i did some fairly complex dvd's in dvdsp so the menu and navigation seems pretty straightforward.   And what's really great is that because I have to deliver both blu-ray and dvd images on this project I did a test just changing the project settings from blu-ray to DVD and built the dvd image and it seemed to work fine.  

So if anyone need help getting encore installed and up and running on their system, start a new thread and give me a heads up (you can send me a direct message by clicking on my user name at the top of this post) and I'll hopefully be able to help and save you some of the angst I went thru over the last week.

One question Stan that you may or not have the answer to.  My UHD master is 24 fps.   I output a 1080 blu-ray file from the export dialog in premiere maintaining the 24fps which from my reading is compliant with the blu-ray spec, however, I'm pretty sure it is not compliant with the dvd spec.  Will Encore handle a 24fps video file for the dvd or should I interpret it as 23.976 fps.  I know I can do that in apple compressor without an issues.  And now that I'm saying this outloud, thinking maybe that would be the smarter thing to do BEFORE I author the blu-ray so subtitle timing etc would hold between blu-ray and dvd.  Hard to predict whether there might be issues down the road...

thanks again

[Stan Jones]

Encore was built to handle just changing the project type (DVD vs BD), but there were often problems. So the rule of thumb became use separate projects. Transcode before bringing the assets into Encore.

As expected, none of the old Encore threads are still up that address 24/23.976 assets. My notes that follow say:

• All SD NTSC DVDs are nominally 29.97. 23.976 fps is flagged with pulldown.
• Look at the Premiere export for MPEG2-DVD; you'll see the preset for NTSC 23.976p Widescreen.
• Look at your file with mediainfo; you should see "scan order: 2:3 Pulldown"
• Once in Encore, you should see "Don't Transcode" for your movie.
• If you created it without the pulldown flag, Encore will transcode it; you don't want that.

@Jeff Bellune Please drop by and correct this! Fun to be had, like the old days. Drop by the lounge for Rolling Rock!

Stan

[Jeff Bellune]

@Stan Jones do they even make Rolling Rock any more? 😀

Stan is correct. All video on NTSC DVD is stored as 29.97 FPS. If your source footage is 24 or 23.976 FPS, it must be telecined for DVD. That's where the 3:2 pulldown comes in. The telecining must be done in the MPEG2 encoder. (I don't think simply interpreting the footage in Pr will properly telecine the video.) You should also export separate video and audio files from Pr; don't let Pr multiplex the video and audio together. En will just de-mux them on import, and that process can introduce more issues. 

With the new telecined MPEG2 assets in En, your subtitle timing may have to be fine-tuned, but it should be close right from the start. 

NB: DO NOT let En transcode your video. The output quality would be abysmal. If the DVD Transcode Status column (not the Blu-Ray Transcode Status column) doesn't say "Don't Transcode", do not proceed with authoring your DVD. You must tinker with the settings in Pr's MPEG2 DVD preset and re-export.

[Jeff Bellune]

@Michael Grenadier 

Did you figure out how to get the 32-bit En installer to run on a 64-bit Big Sur Mac? En CS6 itself is 64-bit, but the installer isn't and won't run. 

Thanks!

[Michael Grenadier]

Thanks Jeff.  I guess between Stan and you, I've found my Encore mentors.   gotta say I was never a rollingrock guy.  might as well be drinking spiked seltzer...

Yeah, I know enough not to let Encore transcode to standard def.  Had alot of experience with dvdsp and always used compressor for the transcode.  I know compressor does a great job converting from 24 to 23.976 (at least it used to) doing the same thing as "interpret" in AE, changing the playback speed without changing any of the frames...   and DVDSP would handle the 23.976 files without issue and the authored dvd's would automatically remove the pulldown on a computer or a properly configured settop box connected via component to a monitor that would play 24p material.  If I've got to add pulldown, I guess I'll have to figure that one out. 

I'm assuming using compressor to create the m2v and ac3 files would work (but wouldn't be surprised if it didn't).   I've got a sierra boot for my macbookpro so I suppose I could author the dvd in dvdsp where I know the proper workflow for 24p material, but I'd rather stay and author both the blu-ray and dvd in Encore.  I guess I could actually author a dvd in dvdsp and then use mpegstreamclip to demux the m2v file...  make sense?

Not sure what the best workflow is for the blu-ray coming from a UHD 24fps file.    For my initial tests, I just used the blu-ray preset from within Premiere 2021, customizing it so it stayed 24fps rather than 24p.  I did check the bu-ray specs and they do accept 24 fps material.   

As far as the Encore installation, once I'd figured out how to download the Encore CS6 installer, which i detailed in another thread 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/i-was-able-to-install-encore-6-on-a-new-windows-machine-...

it installed without issues on a windows10 pro machine and on a 2012 macbookpro running High Sierra.  Because I wanted to run Premiere202, I had to jump thru another set of stupid apple hoops to update to mojave.

apple will only officially allow you to update to bigsur and of course the 20212 macbookpro isn't compatible.

With some digging I found the mojave download on the mac app store, but when trying to launch it, it would give me an error message.  With some more digging, I found a solution by digging in to the package contents of the installer and deleting a file.  Then the installer worked...  

At this point, I'm just thankful I've gotten my subtitle export from premiere2021 converted so I can import it successfully into Encore.  Although all the fancy formatting options don't come over, the timing does.   which is all I can ask for at this point.  My explained to my client that dvds and blu-rays were a dying distribution medium but he's paying me (although not enough) so down the rabbit hole...

[Michael Grenadier]

gonna do a short test (5 minutes or so) of the workflow from my uhd edited into a 1080 24fps timeline, exporting as a prores 1080 24fps prores file, into compressor to retime and make m2v and ac3 and bring those into encore and see if everything plays nice...  will post back.  anything rather than do the work that I should be doing...

[Jeff Bellune]

>DVDSP would handle the 23.976 files without issue and the authored dvd's would automatically remove the pulldown on a computer or a properly configured settop box connected via component to a monitor that would play 24p material.  If I've got to add pulldown, I guess I'll have to figure that one out. 

I'm assuming using compressor to create the m2v and ac3 files would work

Sounds like DVDSP did a soft telecine, which is good. The extra frames aren't hard-coded into the video stream. Instead, pulldown flags are added and the DVD player adds the extra frames on playback. If the DVD player (or computer) can output 24p, then the pulldown flags would be ignored and the 24p stream played as is.

Sadly, I don't remember if the MainConcept MPEG2 encoder in Pr did a soft or hard telecine on 24p footage. I always used HCEncoder in Windows. Nor do I know if the MainConcept MPEG2 encoder is still used by Pr 2021, or if the telecine method has changed.

>Not sure what the best workflow is for the blu-ray coming from a UHD 24fps file.  I just used the blu-ray preset from within Premiere 2021, customizing it so it stayed 24fps rather than 24p. I did check the bu-ray specs and they do accept 24 fps material. 

24 fps or 23.976 fps that is BD-legal is always progressive, i.e., 24p.

The UHD source video will have to be downsized to 720x480 with a PAR of 1.2121 to get NTSC DVD-legal widescreen video. I highly recommend creating a Digital Intermediate file at the new frame size and PAR, using a high-quality codec like ProRes 422 HQ. If you are using hardware acceleration in the Mercury Playback Engine, it should do a pretty good job of downsizing the video. If not using hardware acceleration, make sure to check the Maximum Render Quality box for export. Use the DI in a new, matching sequence in Pr and use that sequence to export to MPEG2 DVD. Or if you decide to use Compressor to encode to MPEG2 DVD, use the DI there.

Thank you for the installation information. At this point in my editing life it definitely falls into the too-hard category, given that I have a pretty good BD and DVD workflow using Toast 19 and Burn. Details available if you want to try Toast 19, which is about 95% bloatware for our purposes, and very fussy. But it can do the job if you feed it just the right kind of video.

[Michael Grenadier]

Does toast 19 have the capabilities for menu creating and navigation that encore has?  Although the client (at this point) isn't asking for anything beyond a bunch of "bonus features" and menus for chapter navigation and turning on and off multiple subtitle streams, don't have a lot of faith in Toasts capabilities although it's always been my go to tool for actually doing burns for dvds (usually authored in dvdsp).    Worth buying if you think encore is undependable but it's been working just fine for my tests so far.  And just changing the project settings from blu-ray to dvd has worked fine.  Understand that the final dvd project will need to be rigorously tested but minimally would love not to have to rebuild all my menus.  Can certainly deal with rebuilding the navigation if necessary.

and fwiw, both dvd and blu-rays will be burned rather than replicated (although the client dreams of such demand that he would have to reconsider this down the road - he can dream can't he?).  

I remember from working with Encore years ago, that it did not output a blu-ray project suitable for replication.  

The only solution I could find was Scenarist and that was very expensive.  Is that still the case or are there other less expensive solutions available in the 21st century?

thanks

[Jeff Bellune]

All things being equal, I would use Encore and not Toast. But all things for me are not equal.

I don't have any desire to set up my MacBook Pro with dual-boot. So Toast is what is available for 64-bit macOS and it is what I have chosen to use make do with.

The menu and navigation functions in Toast are basic, but the menu building has enough options, including using your own images as backgrounds, that it should suit all but the most demanding projects.

Your BD authoring choices have gotten worse over the years, not better. Scenarist BD is even more expensive now than it was. If you need to replicate BDs, you'd better have a lot of clients lined up because it is beaucoup bucks to author a legal, functional Blu-Ray replication master. I can put you in touch with a guy who is doing it now, and I think he's using the most econimical software combination that's available. He gets great results that commercial studios are willing to pay for.