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Best way to divide processing into two separate operations, on the same video?

Explorer ,
Aug 08, 2020

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I require 5-6 plugins to fully process the video.

When I use more than 2-3 plugins the system fails to render video correctly.

 

What is the best way to divide processing into two separate operations?

Without any loss of quality or resulting artifacts

 

I have been rendering all video to Custom Lossless AVI.

Do I render the first process to a saved video, and reload that video for the final process?

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Best way to divide processing into two separate operations, on the same video?

Explorer ,
Aug 08, 2020

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I require 5-6 plugins to fully process the video.

When I use more than 2-3 plugins the system fails to render video correctly.

 

What is the best way to divide processing into two separate operations?

Without any loss of quality or resulting artifacts

 

I have been rendering all video to Custom Lossless AVI.

Do I render the first process to a saved video, and reload that video for the final process?

Topics

Editing, Export, Formats, Import, Performance

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107

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Explorer ,
Aug 08, 2020

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Do I begin with colour correction, editing or noise reduction?

Not seeing a result immediately means a slower learning curve!

 

Any basic guides in order of processes?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 08, 2020

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Please tell us your system specs: OS version, Premiere version, amount of RAM, Hardware specs including graphics card and also your source properties and your sequence settings.

I don't think this should happen if you're system is up to snuff.  And when you say plug-ins are these 3rd party plug-ins or native adobe effects?

Without these specifics, I might suggest that you try apply a few of the "plug-ins" and then nest the clip and apply the additional effects to the nest..

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Explorer ,
Aug 08, 2020

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Acer Veriton X4630G with Intel HD Graphics 4600. 8Gig Ram

Win 10 64, CC2018

 

Processes:

Neat Video.

Beauty Box/ Shine Removal = %100

The Lumetri Color controls.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/hsl-secondary-key-set-color-eyedropper-color-select-opti...

 

With these 3 processes the system is failing to render correctly!

Each process works fine by itself.

The rendered video gets patterns when to many process are added.

 

There are a few more plugins I might use with 2 stage processing.

 

Re: I might suggest that you try apply a few of the "plug-ins" and then nest the clip and apply the additional effects to the nest..

 

I do not understand how nesting solves the problem?

Is there a simple guide for how nesting is used for my example?

 

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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first does your graphic card meet minimum specs for PP

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/system-requirements.html

 

If so, do you have the latest drivers for the graphics card installed?

 

Also wondering about .avi.  Might be an idea to try a more "modern" format.  Prores 422 for example..

 

I'm just guessing about nesting, but worth a shot.   Do you understand how to nest?  If so, apply 2 of the effects.  If they render properly, nest the clip and then apply the 3rd effect to the nest in the containing timeline.  There are a number of effects that require this workflow.  

 

You might also send the clips to AfterEffects which sometimes handles these things much better.

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Might need to change the order of the effects in order to export correctly.

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Processes:

Neat Video.

Beauty Box/ Shine Removal = %100

The Lumetri Color controls.

 

Neat, as any video noise reduction process, is a massive drain on a computer by itself. Unless you have a computer that's pretty "stout", I would recommend to use Neat and then do a full "render and replace" to a good "digital intermediate" format like ProRes 422, Cineform, or DNxHD/R. Essentially, you're baking in the noise reduction. And therefore separating the workload.

 

To do a render & replace, you would need to set your sequence settings preview format/codec to the chosen format/codec.

 

Then do the rest of your work. I'm not sure how much workload BeautyBox adds to the computer.

 

'Nesting' means that Premiere does the processing set during the first 'non-nested' part of your work, then ... after you've applied some effects, you "nest" the clip, and Premiere handles those effects applications in a separate process. It's heavily used when you have a lot of work on a clip. like say Warp Stabilizer and Lumetri ... apply the Warp, then nest, then apply Lumetri.

 

Neil

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Explorer ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Regarding the order of processes:

I was wondering if Neat Video Process would improve, if over saturated colour was reduced first.

 

Is the only advantage of nesting, increased workflow?

 

Re: full "render and replace" to a good "digital intermediate" format like ProRes 422, Cineform, or DNxHD/R. 

I thought AVI was lossless, just wondering why you would choose another format?

 

Thanks for all the advice.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Lossless avi's are huge.

Prores or Cineform are visual lossless and smaller in filesize.

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Explorer ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Size is not an issue, my projects ends up 2.2Gig in AVI.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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avi is a container and can be compressed or uncompressed and newer codecs which work in quicktime and I assume other formats are much more efficient.   Neil, or someone as smart, please confirm, I'd assume that when you have multiple effects on a clip, premiere would render each frame with all the effects applied in the order that they're stacked.  If you nest a clip and apply one effect within the nest and then the other effects to the nest in the containing sequence, I'd assume that the nested clip with the single effect would render in it's entirety and that then the additional effects would be rendered.  Some effects like the warp stabilizer reference frames before and after the frame being rendered, so I'd assume rendering each frame with mutliple effects might create issues.  Just guessing here..  

 

But when it comes to troubleshooting nesting with a different distribution of effects is a worthwhile way to approach the problem.  

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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the avi format goes back to 1992.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Video_Interleave

Although you may be able to work with it in premiere, that's almost 30 years ago.  Try a newer format...

Troubleshooting from a distance is never easy but this is one direction to try...

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Effects processing as mgrenadier notes is top-down in the Effects Control Panel (ECP).

 

Applying some effects to a clip, then nesting it and applying other effects, causes Premiere to apply all the effects applied to the clip before nesting in the order they appear in the ECP for that part of the work. Then it takes that image, and to it applies the effects of the nested clip ECP.

 

So that nesting breaks up the processing chain, getting a 'final' view, of the original clip with effects, then to that view, applies the other processing for the effects applied to the clip after nesting it.

 

As opposed to simply piling a ton of effects back-to-back and processing them all.

 

Neil

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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so I got that right?  uneffingbelievable.  Thanks Neil.  My areas of expertise are somewhat scattershot but after too many years working with this stuff, I guess some of it's stuck.

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Explorer ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Re: Applying some effects to a clip, then nesting it and applying other effects, causes Premiere to apply all the effects applied to the clip before nesting in the order they appear in the ECP for that part of the work. Then it takes that image, and to it applies the effects of the nested clip ECP.

 

I would like to try adding all but Neat Video before nesting!

 

Seems simple but Adobe always throws a spanner:

So I add the Shine removal, Lumetri Color controls or related plugins.

I send to nest and apply Neat Video.

I render the nest?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 10, 2020

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Yea.

 

Back to the the order ... how much video noise is there? If there's only a small amount, the end is fine. But if you've got a notable amount, then that is actually problematic when doing the color work and maybe the beauty. Some of the colorists I know who do a lot of beauty work for commercials always denoise right off the bat.

 

Including the option (depending on the media/situation) ... to completely denoise/export/re-import, before continuing to work on the clip.

 

As that way, they can see far better what exactly they're doing in the beauty work.

 

Neil

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Some of the colorists I know de-noise at the end, most do so at the beginning. Noise is often exaggerated by color/tonal work, and it can also be harder to see a clean key in HSL work if you have video noise adding the the key 'chatter'.

 

I mostly de-noise first. I only de-noise near the end if the noise is very minimalist.

 

Neil

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Explorer ,
Aug 09, 2020

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Neil:

Regarding HSL Secondary / Key - Set Color

I have been working on this for some time.

Now understand how Software responds to the eyedropper, sample over variations of a single colour and contrasts.

 

The first 2 colours are Orange and Red clothing, chosen between bright and dark colour.

(There is room to move!)

 

The 3rd skin colour can be chosen, dark for good separation.

Or light so the first 2 keys also reduce skin darkness. Ok for light reduction of shadow for clarity and reduces bleeding.

Either way the H,S,L windows need a lot of fine tuning.

 

I know Adobe Help wants sample videos, computer specs etc.???

 

My point is that the eyedropper is limiting the possible range and should have adjustment.

HSL Secondary / H is hard against wall with no room for movement.

 

Just pointing out a limitation if Adobe developers have ideas.

I guess this could also be, just the end of usable range??

-

 

This is also why I started the convo about sample squares.

I took a 60x60 sample, reduced size to 1x1 and expanded back to 60x60.

Did not work better then eyedropper from video.

This could be made to work, but the point is only to demonstrate limitation.

 

Add: If the sample was resaved with gradient, the eyedropper location could be chosen!

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