Highlighted

Exported video displaying color differently then in Premiere Pro

New Here ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I have been searching the web for an explanation of this problem for about 3 months now. When I export videos from Premiere and then play it back in QuickTime player, youtube, or Vimeo my colors end up washed out. If I open the video in VLC player they look just about spot on. It drives me up a wall when I spend 3 hours working on the color of a video and then it ends up looking like garbage when I send it out. I will attach a photo of each player and the resulting washed outlook. By the way, all photos are from the same video and export setting. They are all screengrabs take on the same computer. Please help if you can. 

 

Color Problem.001.jpeg

 

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by R Neil Haugen | Adobe Community Professional

You are starting from an incorrect assumption ... that color management in computers/browsers/OS/players is a constant, uniform "thing" to a set standard.

 

IT IS NOT.

 

I am a contributing author for a pro colorist's teaching subscription web service, MixingLight.com. The founders and all of the other authors are based on colorist apps like Resolve, Baselight, and Mistika. The founders were the team hired by Dolby to produce the intense training media for those producing DolbyVision for broadcast/streaming ... these are top colorists.

 

I produced a program given in the Flanders FSI/MixingLight booth at NAB/2019, and in prep for that spent hours in screen-share and phone calls with Frances Crossman, then color engineer (and now co-product manager for Premiere). At NAB prior to the presentation, I spent a couple hours in person with him. Then before the tutorial for MixingLight was approved for their site, colorists Patrick Inhofer and Robbie Carman participated in a LONG series of intensely detailed emails querying Frances and me. Yea, I've spent some time on this issue.

 

For pro colorists, there is a massive and continuing discussion  concerning the two sides of the same problem: color management for the colorist and for the client/consumer. Especially in this odd time, where they don't do nearly as many client-attended grading sessions as 'normal', where they control the image the client sees. At the current time, clients are viewing via Zoom or one of the several pro tools for such things, oft using various browsers, and of course on gear of un-known color managed controls. It's a big problem.

 

Most pro video media is still produced 'assuming' the Rec.709 broadcast standards ... sRGB primaries, gamma of 2.4 (sometimes argued for 2.2), 100 nits brightness of the monitor, and produced in a semi-dark room with a highly calibrated an profiled broadcast monitor. This is for broadcast, streaming, and web usage.

 

But most monitors, even moderately expensive ones that have an included Rec.709 option, do not properly apply Rec.709 standards ... especially the Retina monitors on the Apple system. Browsers ... are all over the place, some sort of applying correct standards, some applying none at all. Players are the same, though VLC and PotPlayer tend to be considered the most reliable.

 

Settings on the computer, between the OS, user settings for monitors, and settings for the GPU can be all over the place.

 

All of these crash into each other and create what you are seeing.

 

So ... how do we navigate all this?

 

Set your best monitor as tightly as possible to Rec.709 ... use a puck/software combination like preferably the Xrite i1 Display Pro system to set an ICC profile that is strictly sRGB primaries, gamma 2.4, 100 nits brightness, and color with the room in a near-dark state with a bit of lightness on the wall behind the monitor (called bias light) as close as possible to 6,000K.

 

Then Premiere will give the best results it can, as Premiere is hard-coded to be used on a full broadcast system. Outside of Premiere of course, it's a crap-shoot. Again, VLC/Potplayer are the best options, but some browsers will be close, others not.

 

And that's all you can do. It's all the pro colorists can do. Grade it on a proper setup, and let it go out Into The Wild.

 

And understand that out 'there', your media will then look relatively as it should, compared to all other pro produced media on that system. Nothing will ever look the same on another screen besides yours, don't even try.

 

Here's some other resources ...

Why does my color look different?

FAQ: Setting up for HDR work in Premiere 2020

Why Master On A Calibrated Display?

Color Management for Video Editors

Jarle’s Article on Premiere Color Management

How Do You Finish at the Highest Possible Quality in Premiere Pro CC?

 

 

Neil

TOPICS
Effects and Titles, Error or problem, Export, How to

Views

103

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more

Exported video displaying color differently then in Premiere Pro

New Here ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I have been searching the web for an explanation of this problem for about 3 months now. When I export videos from Premiere and then play it back in QuickTime player, youtube, or Vimeo my colors end up washed out. If I open the video in VLC player they look just about spot on. It drives me up a wall when I spend 3 hours working on the color of a video and then it ends up looking like garbage when I send it out. I will attach a photo of each player and the resulting washed outlook. By the way, all photos are from the same video and export setting. They are all screengrabs take on the same computer. Please help if you can. 

 

Color Problem.001.jpeg

 

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by R Neil Haugen | Adobe Community Professional

You are starting from an incorrect assumption ... that color management in computers/browsers/OS/players is a constant, uniform "thing" to a set standard.

 

IT IS NOT.

 

I am a contributing author for a pro colorist's teaching subscription web service, MixingLight.com. The founders and all of the other authors are based on colorist apps like Resolve, Baselight, and Mistika. The founders were the team hired by Dolby to produce the intense training media for those producing DolbyVision for broadcast/streaming ... these are top colorists.

 

I produced a program given in the Flanders FSI/MixingLight booth at NAB/2019, and in prep for that spent hours in screen-share and phone calls with Frances Crossman, then color engineer (and now co-product manager for Premiere). At NAB prior to the presentation, I spent a couple hours in person with him. Then before the tutorial for MixingLight was approved for their site, colorists Patrick Inhofer and Robbie Carman participated in a LONG series of intensely detailed emails querying Frances and me. Yea, I've spent some time on this issue.

 

For pro colorists, there is a massive and continuing discussion  concerning the two sides of the same problem: color management for the colorist and for the client/consumer. Especially in this odd time, where they don't do nearly as many client-attended grading sessions as 'normal', where they control the image the client sees. At the current time, clients are viewing via Zoom or one of the several pro tools for such things, oft using various browsers, and of course on gear of un-known color managed controls. It's a big problem.

 

Most pro video media is still produced 'assuming' the Rec.709 broadcast standards ... sRGB primaries, gamma of 2.4 (sometimes argued for 2.2), 100 nits brightness of the monitor, and produced in a semi-dark room with a highly calibrated an profiled broadcast monitor. This is for broadcast, streaming, and web usage.

 

But most monitors, even moderately expensive ones that have an included Rec.709 option, do not properly apply Rec.709 standards ... especially the Retina monitors on the Apple system. Browsers ... are all over the place, some sort of applying correct standards, some applying none at all. Players are the same, though VLC and PotPlayer tend to be considered the most reliable.

 

Settings on the computer, between the OS, user settings for monitors, and settings for the GPU can be all over the place.

 

All of these crash into each other and create what you are seeing.

 

So ... how do we navigate all this?

 

Set your best monitor as tightly as possible to Rec.709 ... use a puck/software combination like preferably the Xrite i1 Display Pro system to set an ICC profile that is strictly sRGB primaries, gamma 2.4, 100 nits brightness, and color with the room in a near-dark state with a bit of lightness on the wall behind the monitor (called bias light) as close as possible to 6,000K.

 

Then Premiere will give the best results it can, as Premiere is hard-coded to be used on a full broadcast system. Outside of Premiere of course, it's a crap-shoot. Again, VLC/Potplayer are the best options, but some browsers will be close, others not.

 

And that's all you can do. It's all the pro colorists can do. Grade it on a proper setup, and let it go out Into The Wild.

 

And understand that out 'there', your media will then look relatively as it should, compared to all other pro produced media on that system. Nothing will ever look the same on another screen besides yours, don't even try.

 

Here's some other resources ...

Why does my color look different?

FAQ: Setting up for HDR work in Premiere 2020

Why Master On A Calibrated Display?

Color Management for Video Editors

Jarle’s Article on Premiere Color Management

How Do You Finish at the Highest Possible Quality in Premiere Pro CC?

 

 

Neil

TOPICS
Effects and Titles, Error or problem, Export, How to

Views

104

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Jul 30, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

You are starting from an incorrect assumption ... that color management in computers/browsers/OS/players is a constant, uniform "thing" to a set standard.

 

IT IS NOT.

 

I am a contributing author for a pro colorist's teaching subscription web service, MixingLight.com. The founders and all of the other authors are based on colorist apps like Resolve, Baselight, and Mistika. The founders were the team hired by Dolby to produce the intense training media for those producing DolbyVision for broadcast/streaming ... these are top colorists.

 

I produced a program given in the Flanders FSI/MixingLight booth at NAB/2019, and in prep for that spent hours in screen-share and phone calls with Frances Crossman, then color engineer (and now co-product manager for Premiere). At NAB prior to the presentation, I spent a couple hours in person with him. Then before the tutorial for MixingLight was approved for their site, colorists Patrick Inhofer and Robbie Carman participated in a LONG series of intensely detailed emails querying Frances and me. Yea, I've spent some time on this issue.

 

For pro colorists, there is a massive and continuing discussion  concerning the two sides of the same problem: color management for the colorist and for the client/consumer. Especially in this odd time, where they don't do nearly as many client-attended grading sessions as 'normal', where they control the image the client sees. At the current time, clients are viewing via Zoom or one of the several pro tools for such things, oft using various browsers, and of course on gear of un-known color managed controls. It's a big problem.

 

Most pro video media is still produced 'assuming' the Rec.709 broadcast standards ... sRGB primaries, gamma of 2.4 (sometimes argued for 2.2), 100 nits brightness of the monitor, and produced in a semi-dark room with a highly calibrated an profiled broadcast monitor. This is for broadcast, streaming, and web usage.

 

But most monitors, even moderately expensive ones that have an included Rec.709 option, do not properly apply Rec.709 standards ... especially the Retina monitors on the Apple system. Browsers ... are all over the place, some sort of applying correct standards, some applying none at all. Players are the same, though VLC and PotPlayer tend to be considered the most reliable.

 

Settings on the computer, between the OS, user settings for monitors, and settings for the GPU can be all over the place.

 

All of these crash into each other and create what you are seeing.

 

So ... how do we navigate all this?

 

Set your best monitor as tightly as possible to Rec.709 ... use a puck/software combination like preferably the Xrite i1 Display Pro system to set an ICC profile that is strictly sRGB primaries, gamma 2.4, 100 nits brightness, and color with the room in a near-dark state with a bit of lightness on the wall behind the monitor (called bias light) as close as possible to 6,000K.

 

Then Premiere will give the best results it can, as Premiere is hard-coded to be used on a full broadcast system. Outside of Premiere of course, it's a crap-shoot. Again, VLC/Potplayer are the best options, but some browsers will be close, others not.

 

And that's all you can do. It's all the pro colorists can do. Grade it on a proper setup, and let it go out Into The Wild.

 

And understand that out 'there', your media will then look relatively as it should, compared to all other pro produced media on that system. Nothing will ever look the same on another screen besides yours, don't even try.

 

Here's some other resources ...

Why does my color look different?

FAQ: Setting up for HDR work in Premiere 2020

Why Master On A Calibrated Display?

Color Management for Video Editors

Jarle’s Article on Premiere Color Management

How Do You Finish at the Highest Possible Quality in Premiere Pro CC?

 

 

Neil

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 1
New Here ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks, Neil 

 

Not only for your very in-depth response here but all your responses across Adobe Community. I think a small percentage of my understanding of color and displays have come from me reading your posts. So thank you. I will attempt to take a deep breath and let this roll off my back because I most defiantly don't have the "perfect" setup. 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0
Advocate ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Paul,

I assume the PPro still image is what you like. It looks to me that the VLC image is closest ( if not exactly the same ). That's really good. I'd stay with what you have for settings and keep working as you are.

What happens when you upload to youtube or vimeo or other places is that they internally transcode to whatever they use to stream stuff. I see that the youtube and quicktime stills are lighter. But I still like them as it doesn't bother me. If I didn't know your original stuff it wouldn't bother me to see those lighter versions. It's still pretty.

 

If it gets really really important the only way to mess around with the result is to make an educated guess as to the 'percentage' of difference and do a temporary change ( use save as and change and name new project " For Vimeo" etc.)... like take your overall level down 5% ( that's a guess ) and export and upload and see if it's the way you want. There's nothing else you can do really.

 

Unfortunately it takes time and you should only export small section to save time and then upload the small section. When happy delete the test you uploaded, export the corrected new project completely and upload the whole thing.

 

🙂

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0
New Here ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks! My frustration (I'm aware that this is a very small problem and I'm the only one who really knows it exists) is that I look around at other channels and don't see this drop off in color/quality. And I guess I could be seeing it but not knowing what their production side looks like I would never know. But I follow great filmmakers and their stuff looks immaculate. I'm not expecting myself to match them in quality because I'm not on their level. 

 

I'm just annoyed that the things I can control like my display and rig still don't get the same result even between VLC and Quicktime which are not going through the YouTube and Vimeo compression and encoding things. 

 

I will give your idea a try and see what it does.

 

Thanks

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0
Advocate ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yeah, there is a lot of work and money and skilled techs working on multi million dollar movies and you really shouldn't try to compare your resources to theirs. Just look at what lucas film did and pixar. huge diffence between that stuff and what this forum deals with.

But I think your stuff looks really nice. Lighting is great, composition, I like it. Even the lighter versions.

🙂

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I agree with Salvo, the shots look really nice and the lighting done well.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 1
New Here ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

When I say I'm looking at other videos I'm not meaning looking at Hollywood (because I don't expect my work to reach that level) I'm meaning looking at Epic light Media and the like on Youtube. When I'm looking to improve in things I try and look at people at what I see as my level and a bit above. I feel like I learn more than looking at multi-million dollar films. I appreciate the compliments.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5_i773e_U0

Lighting interiors can be tricky. In this video you will see how we lit a day and night interior using 3 lights. To light this scene we used the Aputure 300D...

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

There are a lot of posts around here on this subject, I'm surprised it took 3 months. Even if you just scroll thru the pages, you should find one in pretty quick time. Speaking of QuickTime, I just did a quick search and found it in 3 seconds... 🙂

MyerPj_0-1596132185200.png

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I look around at other channels and don't see this drop off in color/quality. And I guess I could be seeing it but not knowing what their production side looks like I would never know. But I follow great filmmakers and their stuff looks immaculate. I'm not expecting myself to match them in quality because I'm not on their level. 

 

You actually answered it in here ... because no, you don't know what their media looked like on the system it was graded on. And I will guarantee you, it looked a LOT different in the grading suite on that spendy Flanders or Eizo or high-end Sony monitor than you've ever seen it.

 

How hard is this? In a pro colorist's suite, they'll have their working monitors, the Reference monitor, and a client monitor.

 

The UI monitors are just nice computer monitors. The reference monitor for the colorist is a specific tool ... Grade 1 Reference Monitors are actually a separate category of monitor, with standards for not only color performance but pixel-by-pixel screen uniformity well above any consumer monitor. That monitor is then calibrated, often by specialists with gear costing many thousands of dollars, and a LUT is generated that is use either internally in the monitor or in an external LUT box for each color space that colorist may need. This is "fed" from a break-out system, a card or output device, that ignores the OS video signal and is not connected to the GPU, so it gets the raw video data from the app being used, whether Premiere, Resolve, Baselight, whatever.

 

That is what the colorist sees when grading.

 

The client is watching a large-screen TV, that has also been fed typically from a breakout system with a LUT box, in an attempt to match that screen as closely as possible to the Reference monitor screen.

 

A huge pain for colorists is when the client looks over at their reference monitor, and likes that better than the client monitor ... and says "Make my screen look like yours". Well ... if they could, they would have already! This is why most colorists setup their suite so when the clients are sitting at their sofa, they can't see the Reference monitor of the colorist.

 

And note, this is all in rooms with typically medium gray walls, NO windows! ... and in semi-darkness, with the only lights used running at 6,000K.

 

Does that describe your setup? No?

 

Well, yea, you're not seeing what the colorist saw. But nearly all pro work is graded to that setup. Why? So that it matches other pro work. It's the relative to other work part that is important.

 

If you want to match that, you need to get as close to the setup as you can afford, and learn to use the scopes as much as your eyes. Pro reference monitors start above $4500 for say a 24" HD monitor. If you're talking HDR ... the cheapest usable reference monitor I know of currently is $28,000USD. As far as say Netflix or anyone and their requirements for the gear used to prep for their service.

 

Are you and I going to have one of those? Not seeing it here ... but I have set up as closely as I can, carefully setting the i1 Display Pro software so that after calibration, when I run a profile with Lightspace color profiling software connected to Resolve for patch creation, I get a series of graphs that show my 'reference' monitor within specs.

 

No, it's not nearly as uniform across the screen as the Flanders I'd love to have. No, the black level isn't as deep as I'd like.

 

But ... when sent to a colorist for viewing on their system, the tonal values and saturation are all within bounds. Skin tones are an appropriate range of hues. Shadows still show details, highlights don't clip except where I want them.

 

It works well enough for my web needs. But if someone hired me to do b-cast work, I'd immediately get a full reference monitor setup simply to know absolutely and totally that what I'm producing will pass the dreaded QC machine.

 

Neil

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0
Advocate ,
Jul 30, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Paul, I don't know about what you just said.. how that relates to me and my experience. But I'm old and retired so I am not involved with pro stuff anymore.

I found that having an attitude to do my work at 100% on the jobs gave me a kinda work ethic. Same as in school studying photography and stuff. If I really cared and did the best I could and learned everything I could and so on... the day went by pretty fast and I was sorta proud to contribute. Once that 'bar' is set your whole life and everything else you do ( other than work to earn living ) invites you to apply the same level of interest, dedication to your own expertise, and it even helps you to teach others ( younger people new to the business ).

I was working on some 2nd unit thing ( gossip girl ? ) where the DP stormed into the set from DIT and asked what the problem was. We were shooting talent at a computer monitor on a desk that was supposed to have video on it. But the video guy couldn't get the video to play. He was really good and all that ( I liked him and he did amazingly good stuff on many projects ). But he was sweating bullets trying to get this stupid monitor to play the video.

Anyway, the DP said, ( almost shouted cause he wanted to go home after a long day ) " JUST SHOOT THE DARN THING ! "

Then he stormed back out to go back to DIT.

I was dolly grip. Everyone was sorta looking at one another, like, " What the ?? "

I said, " it's static shot and post can mask the screen and drop whatever they want in there."

 

So we shot it and went home.

🙂

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Jul 30, 2020 0