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Gamma Shift in Quicktime vs Premiere

New Here ,
Feb 23, 2016

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Hi All,

I've had this as a problem for quite some time, and now I have some time off work and would like to fix it. My issue is that when I color correct in Adobe Premiere CC 2015, and all other versions of Premiere, and export the file to ProRes 422 the final video file looks more washed out when viewed in Quicktime or uploaded to YouTube. If I open the file in VLC it looks fine, and the color is exactly as it is in Premiere. Ultimately my files are played on YouTube, so it doesn't matter how good the color looks in Premiere or in VLC.

I've tried this with numerous different projects that were shot on Red, Canon 5D, Canon Log, and Sony.

I've tried exporting as H.264, MP4, ProRes 422, and ProRes4444 and have not had any success. I've also seen these issue on my 15" MBP 2014, and my 2015 iMac5K.

I've also tried correcting the gamma in Premiere, but have not been successful. There is a gamma shift as well as a slight color shift.

Here is an example of the color shift. This has been driving me crazy, as there's no point in finessing a color grade in Premiere if the final colors will look completely different.

I greatly appreciate any help!


Thanks,

Donovan

Premiere, YouTube, Quicktime Gamma Shift.jpg

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Gamma Shift in Quicktime vs Premiere

New Here ,
Feb 23, 2016

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Hi All,

I've had this as a problem for quite some time, and now I have some time off work and would like to fix it. My issue is that when I color correct in Adobe Premiere CC 2015, and all other versions of Premiere, and export the file to ProRes 422 the final video file looks more washed out when viewed in Quicktime or uploaded to YouTube. If I open the file in VLC it looks fine, and the color is exactly as it is in Premiere. Ultimately my files are played on YouTube, so it doesn't matter how good the color looks in Premiere or in VLC.

I've tried this with numerous different projects that were shot on Red, Canon 5D, Canon Log, and Sony.

I've tried exporting as H.264, MP4, ProRes 422, and ProRes4444 and have not had any success. I've also seen these issue on my 15" MBP 2014, and my 2015 iMac5K.

I've also tried correcting the gamma in Premiere, but have not been successful. There is a gamma shift as well as a slight color shift.

Here is an example of the color shift. This has been driving me crazy, as there's no point in finessing a color grade in Premiere if the final colors will look completely different.

I greatly appreciate any help!


Thanks,

Donovan

Premiere, YouTube, Quicktime Gamma Shift.jpg

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Guide ,
Feb 23, 2016

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the easiest way to force color management interpretation is AE's utility color profile converter. This is because youtube doesn't support color management. set input as your project setting and output as Rec. 709  NOT 16-235. but the regular one(0-255)


rendering DNxHD file with Rec.709 colorspace fits to youtube perfectly as the contrast gets removed via the html5 decode.

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2016

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Could you please be a little more precise or give me some instructions on how to do that?

As I´d really like to try your suggestion.

Thanks a lot !

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Guide ,
Sep 21, 2016

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i've made a free lut that does the same thing as AE's color profile converter, so you don't have to leave premiere to fix youtube.

add this to media encoder as final post step. it will look wrong(darker) until you upload it to youtube(which brightens up again)

64 cube iridas lut for burning in darker 16-235 from 0-255 for youtube upload. you post darken image, then youtube re-lightens again.

https://f1.creativecow.net/10598/fixmyyoutube

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 23, 2016

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QuickTime is a problematic ... and oft-maligned ... tool. First, it tends to show 16-235 or 16-255 (I've heard both argued) which of course takes anything that in reality is 0-255 and lifts the bottom and also ... well ... Qt has an interesting gamma setting also. Getting around that players designed-in limitations has been a puzzler for many. Around "here" it is oft argued that Qt needs to DIE. Horribly.

That's why settings things like chrisw posted are needed ... to get around what Qt player does to videos. Personally, I go into my nVidia control panel, and set the following, trying to as much as possible over-ride anything Qt or VLC might do to video on my machine.

nvid.PNG

Now ... a bit of experience here. Profile your monitor/s with a good puck-based software if you haven't already. (If you're setup for b-cast "safe" even better of course.) Set your video card controls for something as I've done, to remove video players from as much as possible on your own system. Test some output on other systems, especially on a well-setup TV and no, most are setup rather poorly. Way off on contrast & color.

Now ... once you've found a solid sort of middle-ground, give up and let it go out. Or you will go nuts.

- You have NO control whatever of the things the uploaders do to your media ... and they change settings every so often.

- You have NO control over which player people will use on the 'other end' ... and most computer video players use intriguing settings, with variations in 0-255, 16-235, 16-255, and gamma/contrast/hue "interpretations" ... you can't out-guess this.

- You have no control over the quality of monitor others "out there" will have, and some of them are ATROCIOUS. Bad green spikes or way over blue in the shadows in one corner & green in another and the user doesn't even notice it.

- You have no control over whether they will set their monitors for the viewing conditions of the room they're in ... or profile in any way shape or form.

So please understand, once your material is on the web, NO ONE will probably see it with the shadows/highlights/gamma/hue/color appearance that it is on your screen. NO ONE. EVER.

Do your best diligence on being a neutral full-range creator ... and the rest is out of your control.

Neil

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LEGEND ,
Aug 04, 2016

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The problem with your methodology is one of variables.  Ideally you want to eliminate anything that could be affecting the video signal, so that you're certain you're seeing that signal as it is, and not altered in some way.

Towards that end, you really do NEED to get the video off of the computer and onto a calibrated television from a hardware player.  This is because firstly, the majority of computer monitors just don't calibrate accurately.  So right there you've muffed the viewing experience and you're not seeing what's actually there.

Secondly, the software, the video drivers and even the operating system all can and often do alter the video signal, so again you've muffed the viewing experience and you aren't seeing the video accurately.

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Davoid LATEST
New Here ,
Aug 31, 2017

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I don't think I'm as technically minded as many here but this gamma shift issue was driving me to distraction and really getting in the way of delivering completed work so I have tried lots of options all to no avail.


However, this  method seems to work as a stopgap until the problem is fixed internally.

I have an Atomos Shogun which I use for recording 4K ProRes externally while shooting. I love it for field recording but then  I discovered that it is also considered a good colour reference moniitor as well for REC709. Whilte testing it I found that it mirrors the quality that I would get in my exports from Premiere. Using it as a reference, and also my calibrated IMAC 2017 5K, I get a meaningful difference/range in colour between the two. If I get OK results on Shogun and the IMAC (ie, acceptable on both) it looks fine on all other monitors, smartphones, IOS devices etc as well usually.

Not ideal, but certainly, gives me enough confidence to present to clients without fear of looking like an idiot.

Not everyone has a shogun or REC709 native monitor but whatever the logic behind it, it does seem to work for me. Perhaps something to consider as people try and figure this out.

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