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How do I keep Premiere from changing the gamma of an image in a rendered video?

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Nov 04, 2020

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When I'm in Premiere, the image looks normal, but when I render the video, the image looks like the gamma has been turned up and it seems a little more washed out.  I can't seem to represent a nice fade to black.  Pure black shows up black, but anything else shows up lighter than it should be.

 

Here is an example of this happening.  The darker image is the original, and the lighter one is what Premiere renders in the final video.  Depending on your monitor settings, this may be a little hard to see in the examples I provided. 

 

Either way, is there a setting somewhere that can stop this from happening?  This problem started showing up in v13.

 

Thanks.backgroundy.jpg0 background.jpg

It looks fine when I'm importing psd files and bmp files, but looks gamma shifted when I import jpg and png files.  At least I've figured out the cause of the whole issue.  This is definitely a bug.  I'll likely create an entirely new thread to report this issue.

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How do I keep Premiere from changing the gamma of an image in a rendered video?

Contributor ,
Nov 04, 2020

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When I'm in Premiere, the image looks normal, but when I render the video, the image looks like the gamma has been turned up and it seems a little more washed out.  I can't seem to represent a nice fade to black.  Pure black shows up black, but anything else shows up lighter than it should be.

 

Here is an example of this happening.  The darker image is the original, and the lighter one is what Premiere renders in the final video.  Depending on your monitor settings, this may be a little hard to see in the examples I provided. 

 

Either way, is there a setting somewhere that can stop this from happening?  This problem started showing up in v13.

 

Thanks.backgroundy.jpg0 background.jpg

It looks fine when I'm importing psd files and bmp files, but looks gamma shifted when I import jpg and png files.  At least I've figured out the cause of the whole issue.  This is definitely a bug.  I'll likely create an entirely new thread to report this issue.

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Nov 04, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 04, 2020

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What is your OS, and what app are you viewing the outputs in?

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Contributor ,
Nov 04, 2020

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Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Windows 10.  It even does it when I output as jpg, which is what you see in the examples. The app I'm viewing the outputs in doesn't really make any difference--I use PotPlayer, VLC, Windows Media Player, Movies & TV, and Photos, and it also shows the same way when I upload to YouTube.  Since Premiere v13, this has been the issue.  I'd be happy to go back to v12, but Adobe doesn't give that as an option anymore, sadly.

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Nov 04, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 05, 2020

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Is "Display Color Management" checked off in the preferences? 

 

Here's an article about it:

 

https://premierepro.net/color-management-premiere-pro/

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Nov 05, 2020 0
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Nov 05, 2020

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Thanks for the reply.  If I turn it off, it displays the image in the playback screen in Premiere the way the rendered output file looks (instead of looking correct), it displays it with a gamma shift.  Is there a way to stop it from doing the gamma shift?

 

Thanks.

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Nov 05, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 06, 2020

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Nov 06, 2020 1
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Nov 06, 2020

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Thanks for the reply.  That's a lot of steps to go through just to make it look like the original files.  I hope a better option comes up in the future, or that Adobe might have a method of installing v12 besides getting a pirated version.

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Nov 06, 2020 0
Contributor ,
Nov 06, 2020

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Actually, that LUT doesn't actually fix the problem--the image has still been degraded.  It tries to cover up a problem.  Here's the original image compared to the LUT-adjusted image.  As you can see, the LUT-adjusted image still features the fade to black being degraded in quality, and it merely tries to cover it up with a filter.  That's not a good answer--I want the image to not be degraded in the first place.1 background0.jpg0 background.jpg

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Nov 06, 2020 0
Advocate ,
Nov 06, 2020

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I used to dine at The Gingerman in NYC near Lincoln Center ( 64th and Broadway). I lived on 64th St. down the block between CPW and Bway. And I was a regular at the place. I loved the people who worked there and the food they made, etc.

If I ordered a Filet Mignon medium rare and it got delivered on my plate slightly more medium than rare ( I love raw meat cause I'm an animal ) I would just eat it. No sense complaining and hurting the feelings of those who are doing there very best to give you what you want.

You sound like a whiner and someone who asks for special exceptions to what's on the menu.

My laptop shows NOTHING substantial in your screenshots, from what you want and what you got.

 

Get over it.

🙂

 

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Nov 06, 2020 0
Contributor ,
Nov 06, 2020

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"You sound like a whiner and someone who asks for special exceptions to what's on the menu.  My laptop shows NOTHING substantial in your screenshots, from what you want and what you got."

 

V12 and previous versions didn't degrade the quality.  That's nice that your laptop didn't show anything substantial, laptops usually have crappy quality screens to begin with, it's like looking at a smartphone screen. 

 

There's no reason why Premiere needs to degrade the image quality--if people want "broadcast standards", THEY should have to be the ones to apply an LUT, not people who just want the image to retain the same properties as the original source files.

 

It really doesn't seem to be too much to ask to want the output to look the same as the original files.

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Nov 06, 2020 0
Contributor ,
Nov 06, 2020

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"I would just eat it. No sense complaining and hurting the feelings of those who are doing there very best to give you what you want."

 

A better analogy would be that every time you use valet parking at a particular establishment, your car gets a dent in the driver-side door, but they offer you a free repair coupon at an auto body shop every time.  Yeah, they're trying to give you what you want, but the door shouldn't have been dented in the first place.

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Nov 06, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 06, 2020

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Color management ... what actually happens with that ... is complex and something that few people understand.

 

You talk about Premiere 'degrading' your image, but ... unless you have a fully calibrated system with a monitor that has been calibrated to a T with an external puck & software like the i1 Display Pro or better ... and are certain your OS is not messing with the signal (they normally do) ... then you simply do not know what your pixels really are.

 

No camera made, not even the spendy RED and Arri rigs, have a totally accurate screen on the camera. No player or OS works perfectly with Rec.709 media ... Windows at least doesn't totally mess things up on purpose, like the new Macs do, as Apple decided to mess with the standard in their color management utility. Windows doesn't help you, mind you ...

 

All monitors come with settings that are bluntly wrong. Even thousand dollar rigs with nice certificates of color test accuracy will not be close when checked running a profile with say the puck from the i1 Display Pro and Lightspace color management/profiling software using Resolve for color patches.

 

Back to your issue ... Premiere is trying to accurately manage the color and tonality ... chroma and luma values ... but your system isn't set to the standards. So there is a difference between how things look in Premiere and outside Premiere on your system. If you can set your system up close enough to the standards so things look pretty close within and without Premiere, you will be a lot closer to accurate than you are now.

 

And your exports will look closer ... relatively ... to other pro produced media on other screens. Nothing ever looks completely the same on other screens, of course. Pro colorists can't force that, how could we do what they can't?

 

The problem isn't that Premiere is degrading your image ... it's that everything else on your computer is. But you've accepted that as the correct view because it's what you've seen so far. An analogy that drives colorists nuts is the director or DP that has been viewing the project while shooting in Log without correction LUTs or settings. So they've gotten used to the flat, low-sat image. And when the colorist normalized the image, the director/DP say ... that's wrong!

 

Neil

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Contributor ,
Nov 06, 2020

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"The problem isn't that Premiere is degrading your image ... it's that everything else on your computer is. But you've accepted that as the correct view because it's what you've seen so far."

 

LOL I've given direct examples of how Premiere changes the image--maybe you don't consider the changes made to the image a "degradation", but it certainly has changed the image.  Older versions didn't do this and I'm just trying to find out if there's a way to keep this from happening outside pirating an older verison of Premiere or going with a completely different program.  This has nothing to do with my monitor.  The proof is right there in the images I supplied.

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Nov 06, 2020

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"The problem isn't that Premiere is degrading your image ... it's that everything else on your computer is. But you've accepted that as the correct view because it's what you've seen so far."

 

Just thought I'd chime in again about your false claim that Premiere isn't degrading the image.  Here's what it looks like when I render the image through multiple generations through Premiere.  What I mean by this is:  I exported/rendered the original image as single frame as a jpg, then imported that exported jpg into Premiere again, and rendered that again.  After 6 times of doing that, this is the resulting image.  You can NOT tell me that Premiere hasn't degraded the image.  This is absolute proof that it does.

F background0.jpg

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Nov 06, 2020 0
Advocate ,
Nov 06, 2020

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Thanks for having a sense of humor for my previous post. 

anyway, it's really about the story, like " once upon a time'...

All the distribution business and production stuff is about money and a business, except when it is about telling a story people want to hear and see. The movie business is a factory in many ways, but Adobe and others make NLE programs to make telling stories easier and less expenive.

That's the main thing, in my mind.

If the gamma or gamut is off a little bit in rec 709 space ( adobe ) it doesn't matter much at this point.

 

I just want to watch your movie about some universe cloud. ?????

 

 

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Nov 06, 2020 1
Contributor ,
Nov 06, 2020

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"I just want to watch your movie about some universe cloud."

 

LOL it's just part of the background for my intro on my videos.

 

Yes, I'm likely making a much bigger deal out of this than it really is.  I'm stuck in the Adobe ecosystem, I have too much invested in it to actually make a switch to other software.  Besides, I can't stand DaVinci Resolve's "node" system, where to do basic things you have to create boxes and connect lines between them just to get basic functionality, and Resolve has no decent multi-monitor support--you can't span the interface across different screens. 

 

Besides, nobody has made comments on any of my YouTube videos about my intro looking bad since I was forced to go with a later version of Premiere after a computer upgrade earlier this year.  I don't think they'd even notice since most of them are using mobile devices to begin with.

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Nov 06, 2020 0
Advocate ,
Nov 06, 2020

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they wont know the diffence cause they dont see the original standard and your export to delivery.

YOU are the only one who sees that dfference, basically. So don't sweat it and just tell story.

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Nov 06, 2020 0