How to remove noise and grain in standard DV clips, prior upscaled in Premiere Pro

Enthusiast ,
Dec 17, 2020

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Hello,

 

The clips are standard DV.....AND

they have been upscaled in PPro using just the standard "Motion" section frame dimensions increase.

 

'Neat Video' seems to be too powerful for the clips or the clips don't carry enough pixels for Neat video to grab a hold of?

 

Any suggestions?   Any good plugins?  Median isn't much help at all. 😞

 

Thanks for your input!

Letty

 

Hi, I spoke too soon about Neat Video.

 

I wasn't using it right.  I've learned to tone it down, and it seems to be working better now.

 

Still too strong, but better.

 

Neat Video is a great tool, the rendering takes forever, but worth it.

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How to remove noise and grain in standard DV clips, prior upscaled in Premiere Pro

Enthusiast ,
Dec 17, 2020

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Hello,

 

The clips are standard DV.....AND

they have been upscaled in PPro using just the standard "Motion" section frame dimensions increase.

 

'Neat Video' seems to be too powerful for the clips or the clips don't carry enough pixels for Neat video to grab a hold of?

 

Any suggestions?   Any good plugins?  Median isn't much help at all. 😞

 

Thanks for your input!

Letty

 

Hi, I spoke too soon about Neat Video.

 

I wasn't using it right.  I've learned to tone it down, and it seems to be working better now.

 

Still too strong, but better.

 

Neat Video is a great tool, the rendering takes forever, but worth it.

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Editing, Effects and Titles

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Dec 17, 2020 0
Enthusiast ,
Dec 17, 2020

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Hi, I spoke too soon about Neat Video.

 

I wasn't using it right.  I've learned to tone it down, and it seems to be working better now.

 

Still too strong, but better.

 

Neat Video is a great tool, the rendering takes forever, but worth it.

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Dec 17, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 17, 2020

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fwiw, I've found working with Neat plugin in AfterEffects was more efficient for me.   That's from about a year ago before I got a higher powered windows machine, but on my underpowered macs, the effects controls in Premiere for any complex 3rd party plug-ins have always been very sluggish.  I did a restoration on an experimental film made in the 70's about a year or so ago.  it was originally shot on vhs and super8film and all I had to work with was an edit done in fcp whatever (7 or earlier).  The restoration involved a lot of Neat's plugin and a lot of stabilization...  so that original source material was way below DV in resolution/quality...

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Dec 17, 2020 1
Enthusiast ,
Dec 17, 2020

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Thanks, yes, it's slow in PPro.  but what can I do?  I'm still looking into it.  I would use AE, but can't re do all the prior work I did in ppro.   AE upscale is awesome w/noise remover, but the noise remover in neat is pretty dam good also.  Very happy with the fine tune settings.  just that dam render time is killing me.

 

I have Ryzen 7, gtx 1050ti  isn't that decent enough?  so dam slow to render, I have to rethink my edit set up and render this stuff while I sleep!!! 

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Dec 17, 2020 0
Contributor ,
Dec 17, 2020

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I suggest to try this package of freeware tools, works every time for me:

 Free Video Denoiser. How to reduce video noise, tutorial - YouTube
But it's a stand-alone tool, not a plug-in. So, you denoise first, and then edit cleaned footage as usual.
Denoiser output codecs include DNxHR, Cineform, Prores, h264 (software x264 and hw-accelerated NVEnc). It's pretty fast, should run in real-time or faster.

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Dec 17, 2020 1
Enthusiast ,
Dec 17, 2020

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Thanks, but I just purchased neat vid... has lots of features and fine tuning settings.

 

also, my footage is being upscaled, so I don't know how noisey it is until I see it.  If I denoise in the clips natural frame, it may not work as good, because the grain isn't there until I upscale.  catch 22. 

 

The bad part is the rendering is brutal!!!    Investigating any settings I'm missing.

 

I have 16 cores, Ryzen 7, gtx1050ti.  Decent set up, but maybe not enough for this type of plugin??  😞

 

but the image is really great!!! worth the wait I guess. 

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Dec 17, 2020 0
Contributor ,
Dec 17, 2020

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Most of the times this free tool is comparable to NV by resulting quality, and always faster. As to upscaling noise, it's wiser to denoise in original size, faster and requires less filter strength

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Dec 17, 2020 1
Enthusiast ,
Dec 17, 2020

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Thanks, I will test it out tonight.  My problem is I already upscaled and re positioned all the clips, so I'll have to re do the original, then replace the orginal.  x 100's of clips, it's a real pain.  Vs. the time it takes for NV to render.  2 undesirable outcomes.  Replacing clips shouldn't be a problem, I can do that in ppro easy, should be faster than NV rendering like sloth.  But I still have to test it out.  When the original footage is DV, 4:3 and I upscale it, all these new artifacts and noise pops up.  I'm not sure if denoising it in the clips native 4:3 is gonna work, but I'll take your advice and test it out.  That software is pretty good huh?  As good as NV ?  We shall soon see Obi Wan.

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Dec 17, 2020 0
Enthusiast ,
Dec 18, 2020

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Slight differences, but average Joe can't tell.  

 

Problem is I won't know the final look until the clip is reinstalled and upscaled.  Then, I'll have to start all over to make any small adjustments.  It's far to complicated and time consuming.  For me, denoising after the clip has been upscaled, I can see the final version right on the spot and make adjustments on the fly.  It's a give and take, but overall it's easier this way for me.

 

Thanks again! 🙂

Letty

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Dec 18, 2020 0
Enthusiast ,
Dec 18, 2020

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OMG!! the rendering using Neat Vid is almost unbearable.  This software is a nightmare.  Are editors really in love with Neat V ???  1 min of footage = 3.5 mins of rendering!! and that's after tweaking the settings, using cpu and gpu, 10 cores, how in the hell can anybody tweak a whole film with this software???  I'm about 24 hours away from dumping this plugin.   I'm gonna try again at your method of using the free denoiser and denoise my original clips.  After the mind numbing performance of neat video, I'm ready for anything. 

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Dec 18, 2020 0
Contributor ,
Dec 18, 2020

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Assuming your DV is NTSC 29.97i try the updated version I uploaded today, pay attention to this in readme:

"By default NTSC-DV (SD, 29.97i, 4:1:1) input is deinterlaced in 'normal' mode i.e. not multicore optimized. To switch that edit the file avs\input_config.bat and change "di=mp" to "di=n". But don't forget to revert it after the job is done, or you'll get a major slowdown for all normal (non-DV) sources."

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Dec 18, 2020 1
Contributor ,
Dec 18, 2020

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... change "di=n" to "di=mp" actually, sorry for confusing

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Dec 18, 2020 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 18, 2020

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There is a setting in Neat Video that you have to set properly to allow GPU acceleration.

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Dec 18, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 18, 2020

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Letty, your expectations on render times are unrealistic (bwdik).  Maybe it's because I can remember dealing with render farms which could take days to render a minute or 2 of footage...   3 or 4 times footage duration is really nothing... .   Compare Neat render times to complex image stabilization using Adobe default plug-ins and they are not out of line.   

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Dec 18, 2020 1
Enthusiast ,
Dec 18, 2020

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For PeruBob:

 

I'll try looking that up when I get home.  If easy, please tell me here!  🙂  thanks!!

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Dec 18, 2020 0
Enthusiast ,
Dec 18, 2020

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mgrenadier

I think you are 100% right.  I've been cooling off, and thinking, "it's just time"  click render and go watch tv! lol

Ok, I'm going to deal with neat vid.  The image is great with it, so time to do it.  Thanks again for your advice and tips!  I have so much work ahead, but at least I will get good results and I will keep my eye on the ball.

Thanks again,

Letty

 

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Dec 18, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 18, 2020

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I'm not at my editing computer.

It's on the NeatVideo site, I think.

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Dec 18, 2020 1
Enthusiast ,
Dec 19, 2020

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Thanks, I'll look again, I didn't see it in the performance section.  That is something I need.

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Dec 19, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 18, 2020

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8.5. Performance preferences
The first group of settings in this tab selects the computing devices to be used for video processing. This
group of settings is optional: it is shown only if at least one supported GPU (graphic processing unit)
is available along with the regular CPU (central processing unit, or processor). This group includes the
following items:
Use CPU only
This option makes Neat Video perform all video processing using the CPU only.
Use GPU only
This option makes Neat Video perform all video processing using the GPU only.
Use CPU and GPU
If you select this option, then Neat Video will process video data using the CPU and GPU.
Depending on individual performance of each computing device (CPU and GPU), each of the above
options may be the most efficient. You can try different settings and measure the resulting speed using the
Check Speed tool below. You can also use the Optimize Settings. . . button to automatically measure all
possible combinations and find the best one. More on that below.
Optimize Settings
Use the Optimize Settings. . . button to open a specialized dialog designed to measure Neat Video’s
processing speeds achieved with different combinations of the CPU and GPU settings. This tool allows to
automatically benchmark all possible combinations of settings and to identify the best combination. This
is the easiest way to optimize the performance of Neat Video for specific CPU and GPU hardware.

 

from here:

https://www.neatvideo.com/user-guides/nv5/NVPRUG.pdf

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Dec 18, 2020 2
Enthusiast ,
Dec 19, 2020

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Wow!! Thanks Bob for that awesome post!!!  and Thanks for the pdf.

I got lots to read and study.

Thanks so much for your time and help.

I've decided to use neat vid, and learn to accept the render times.  In the long run, totally worth it.

Have a great one,

Letty

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Dec 19, 2020 0