Is there another solution for gamma compensation lut on premiere 2020 (Too Dark)

Community Beginner ,
Jul 24, 2020 Jul 24, 2020

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Hello.
Thanks in advance!
As many, I use the compensation gamma lut to export from premiere so that my final video doesnt look washed out.
But now, with the Premiere 2020, the exports look much darker as my have reported.
I have an Imac Pro 2017, Retina display.
What would be the best solution?
Thanks again!

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Error or problem, Export, How to

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 24, 2020 Jul 24, 2020

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Below is my solution.

https://youtu.be/K7EGNJop_HE

This video demonstrates a method to have your rendered images that are upload to YouTube look like what you see in the GUI of Premiere Pro.

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 06, 2020 Aug 06, 2020

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Thank you very much for your reply.
Hopefully, adobe will fix it or explain the optimum workflow. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 06, 2020 Aug 06, 2020

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I use the compensation gamma lut to export from premiere so that my final video doesnt look washed out.

 

You are misconstruing the situation ... assuming that all other users will see this as you see it on your very specific Mac rig, while you are using X browser and YouTube. I'm a PC person, and near guarantee that almost any gamma correction LUT you apply to make it look good on your system will make it look worse on mine, or any other PC/Android screen out there.

 

This whole thing misses the most basic understanding of color/tonal corrections in "published" video post production. Which is ... no other system will ever show exactly the same image you see. Pro colorists deal with this as a daily issue, and the only accepted method of handling this with pro colorists is to setup a proper calibrated & profiled monitoring system to guarantee the viewing system is as close to standards as possible.

 

Then between the viewed image and their scopes, they can guarantee an accurate pro image.

 

But when that image goes of Into The Wild, whether film release, broadcast, or streaming, every screen it is shown on will be different both from what the colorist 'saw' and how every other screen shows it.

 

Which is to be expected ... but their material will, relatively on every screen, look like other pro produced material on that screen and viewing situation.

 

So the first question ... is your system a full color correct system?

 

That's easy to answer ... no, not even close.

 

First, computer monitors are not considered even close to Grade 1 Reference monitors such as the Flanders FSI, Eizo, and high-end Sony b-cast monitors.

 

Second, those spendy reference monitors are never 'fed' a signal from a GPU or normal computer connection. They get a "clean" output from a Blackmagic or AJA card designed to get the image from the application without any operating system muckups including ICC profiles.

 

Most of us don't work on those systems, and hey ... a "cheap" reference monitor is north of $5,000USD. Add in several hundred for the card to get the signal out of the computer, an external LUT box for holding the calibration setup for the monitor if it doesn't store mulitple internal calibration LUTs for another near-grand or so. "Adequate" calibration gear. Over $6,000 just for the reference monitor, not even talking about the computer and the working/UI monitors attached to it. That's a chunk of change.

 

So ... ok, we're not going to have that, so how do we get as close as possible?

 

That ... varies. On a Mac, you're dealing with the ColorSync utility, which has changed several times in the last few years as to how it applies 'standards' to video media, so different generations of Mac gear/OS can do different things to the image shown. That's confusing enough. And means that different Mac users may see a very different image from the one you see.

 

On PCs, well ... we don't expect Microsoft to actually apply things like color standards correctly so we PC folks tend to understand we have to make things proper ourselves. But doesn't really help make it easy to set up ... usefully.

 

But no matter our system, our viewers will be looking at the images we produce on all sorts of screens, in all sorts of viewing conditions. Their screens, their viewing environment. What the heck do we do?

 

Setup a system as close to the standard as possible, understand where your system doesn't match the standard, and adjust for that problem.

 

The basic need is for users to see something that looks as close to other professionally produced media on the system they are viewing it on. This is a very relative thing. No matter how we set our system, a user with a greenish screen will see a greenish version on their viewer. We have no control of that.

 

And understand the specifics of your situation ... just because, on your particular Mac, something exported out of Premiere with any particular setting and uploaded to YouTube looks 'right' to you on X browser, doesn't mean that anyone else on the planet will see what you're seeing. Ever.

 

If you can, get something you've worked to a colorist or local broadcast station. Some public broadcasting stations can be helpful I've been told. Have them check it on their systems, and run it through their QC machines if possible. On a proper system, what's your produced media look like?

 

Other than that, you've no idea how close or far you are to being within 'normal' for viewing on other systems.

 

Neil

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 11, 2020 Aug 11, 2020

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Thank you for your time. I have been reading your posts and watching some of your videos. I think i need to talk to a colorist to check my system. Wish adobe could have a series of easy to follow tutorials on this subject.
Thanks again!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 11, 2020 Aug 11, 2020

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You're most welcome.

 

This whole color management thing is infuriating, really. One of my colorist acquiantances is a major teacher through his mixinglight.com site, long-time teacher at PostProductionWorld at NAB, 'master teacher' at Adobe Max, leading DC-area colorist, and the owner/operator of the first 'boutique' colorist shop to get full DolbyVision certification. He's one of the two on-screen people for Dolby's in-house videos on using DolbyVision HDR for pro use like with Netflix and others.

 

In an online discussion recently, he went off about how STUPID this is that "we" don't have actual computer makers/software makers/camera makers getting together to stop the insanity and actually apply sensible and universal steps for in-OS/gear color management.

 

He's got a good point. The Rec.709 standard is pretty clear, has been around for quite a few years, and broadcast operations can all setup systems that abide by the rules. But no operating system completely follows Rec.709 as a matter of course, the GPUs can all have their applets that do odd things to "enhance the viewer perspective", the monitor makers are all over the freaking map, even when they claim something has a "Rec.709 mode" it never tests out even close to standards ... and that's not even getting into browsers and video players and their gimmicks.

 

What ... a ... joy.

 

Neil

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New Here ,
Apr 08, 2021 Apr 08, 2021

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Hi Guys. 

 

I've always beeen on the readers side of the discussions but this problem is not coming to a solution. 

My QUESTION. 

The preview that i see in premiere pro does not match with my export on the same screen on VLC player or windows media player. 

 

I am not worried about how it looks on other screens. First i need a solution that why my premiere pro visual and export visual don't match. 

 

Now i have applied gamma QT lut but it crushed my blacks  meaning comparing with the premiere pro window and VLC or windows media player. the exported video is not more darker than the premier pro monitor screeen, 

 

Solution??

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 08, 2021 Apr 08, 2021

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You're on a PC, but with what graphics card? What is your monitor set to for video? Have you done any calibration of that monitor with a puck/software combination (like the Xrite i1 Pro) so you know what your monitor is actually showing?

 

If you export and re-import the file without the LUT, does it appear the same in Premiere Pro as the original sequence?

 

Let's get all your video chain information so we can start sorting it out.

 

Some general information now.

 

- If you've set anything in any video chain to "0-255" as many think they should do, that is wrong, for all Rec.709 media. Rec.709 ... which is nearly everything you'll be working with unless it is specifically HDR ... is 16-235 as a file and will be displayed as 0-255 by the monitor when everything is set correctly. But if you tell the video card or monitor to use 0-255, it will make your videos too dark.

 

- That gamma "correction" LUT is only for use on Mac systems with their Colorsync and it's inaccurate application (manglement) of the Rec.709 standards. PC users should never use it. And further, it is only applied in the Export dialog ... and when a file is only going to be viewed on other Macs with ColorSync.

 

- Many users are better off when they check the preference option for "display color management", and if you haven't, try it.

 

- "Extended dynamic range when available" preferences option apparently only applies to Macs, perhaps the XDR monitor. On a PC, it does nothing.

 

Neil

 

 

 

 

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New Here ,
Apr 08, 2021 Apr 08, 2021

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Hi Neil

Thank you for the detailed reply. I imported the exported clip to premier pro and compared the clips. There is no difference. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 08, 2021 Apr 08, 2021

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Good so far.

 

Now to move forward, what is your GPU?

What is your monitor, and have you done any calibration with the monitor?

Do you have "display color management" checked in the Preferences?

 

Neil

 

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New Here ,
Apr 08, 2021 Apr 08, 2021

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GPU is 1070ti

Color management is not selected

Screen is hp zr30w

It is not calibrated

>From nvidia control panel advanced settings i have selected 0-255

Video exported and video uploaded on youtube have same colors on my screen

Noted on my iphone the same video is a bit unsaturated the teals are less
teal and skin tones are pale. True tone is on.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 08, 2021 Apr 08, 2021

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In the Nvidia control, DE-select the 0-255, that is bluntly wrong. Rec.709 media is encoded as 16-235, and the playback devices 'know' and will play this appropriately on playback remapping to 0-255.

 

Yea, it's all sorts of counter-intuitive. And as someone who spends much of my time with colorists, is something they always have to just get people to go with.

 

There are only a few "full" range format/codecs, mostly the DPX and some of the RGB/12-bit-and-up "monster" ones. They are designed by spec to be full, and ONLY those format/codec combinations.

 

Again, on a properly setup system for 16-235 settings, the 'full' media will also be shown 0-255.

 

Now for the monitor ... in a quick online check, it's not got a setup or 'mode' for video it seems. No way to set it to Rec.709. I can't even find what gamma it operates at. So you definitely need to set the display color management to on. And at approximately 350nits brightness, is way over what the Rec.709 specs suggest which is 100nits in a semi-darkened room.

 

Neil

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