Mixed Framerate XML doesn't mathc in Davinci Resolve

[rodrigos38241220]

I have a project with a 24fps sequence. Some of my clips are at 29.97 and they get adjusted fine. The problem is when I export an XML for color grading in Davinci Resolve 14. The In and out time codes jump in some cases few frames but in others up to 12 seconds.

I dig more and found that Premiere changes the time code to the clips that are edited in the sequence and export them with that wrong time code.

This is really annoying. What could I do to fix this?

Thanks in advance.

Roy

[markg73620064]

I have the same issue - can someone please answer. From the forums I've seen online PP has had this issue with exporting XMLS with speed ramps for years, surely this should be sorted by now or there is something I'm missing??

[Jim_Simon]

You guys might be expecting too much from an XML.  Resolve in particular handles timelines and media frame rates differently than Premiere Pro does, so it's not necessarily surprising when oddities like this don't perfectly translate.

About the best recommendation I can make for a successful transfer is to use one frame rate for all your media and sequences.  Don't add any effects or transitions.

[markg73620064]

Hi Jim, thanks for the reply. I understand it's not surprising, but I can find people mentioning this problem from 2013 - so it hasn't been fixed in 5 years which I find simply bizarre - and more so I do thiink this particular problem is how PP writes XMLs when you have conformed footage inside PP.

For me the issue is usually when I conform all the clips in PP to the same frame rate and then retime a few of these clips. When I import this into DaVinci I import all used media first, conform this footage to the same frame rate I conformed in PP, and then import the XML. The results is that everything that isn't retimed is fine but anything retimed tries to take into account the conform and is way off.

e.g. I conform a 50fps clips to 25fps in PP, and then speed this up to 80% on the timeline. In DaVinci I add this clip to the media pool, again conform the clip to 25fps, import the XML and check the timeline but the clip is now retimed to 40% instead of 80% because PP has tried to account for the conform but not bothered with the other clips.

So the main issue for me is that PP only takes into account on an XML any conform you have done on a retimed clip, if you have not retimed a clip the conform will be ignored. This therefore feels like a bug/mistake as PP should treat all footage (retimed or not) on the timeline exactly the same - the silly half and half method it currently uses is utterly useless.

WORKAROUNDS:

- back in my FCP days I used to  use Cinema Tools to conform footage instantly. Now that is no longer an option and sadly it means waiting hours for AME to transcode everything with the conform. This is an option but not a good one if you have lots of footage.

- The second option i have found is to change all the footage on the timeline to have 'optical flow' on even if it's at 100% speed. This makes PP think that everything has a speed adjustment and therefore treat all footage like it's been conformed and apply the correct speed in DaVinci (you don't need to conform the clips in DaVinci). However this is not fool prop and clips can slip a few frames.

Sure this is a relatively simple fix in the grand scheme of things for Adobe??

[R Neil Haugen]

The colorists I know work mostly in Resolve, of course. And have huge training vids on conforming from any NLE into Resolve, and which settings work best in the NLE to allow the colorist to apply certain options in Resolve to resolve the issues.

Scaling and frame time-changes are always bugaboos. I've asked in any one NLE is really easier and get a plain vanilla no. None of the NLE's treats these things the same the way they record them in XML's, and ... Resolve isn't designed actually to match the way any of them work.

So my friends & acquaintances have pdf's they've made for suggested settings for scaling & time-remapping to the editors they work with. Which cuts the conform time in half or better when they follow the suggestions.

Neil

[markg73620064]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for the reply but I come from a school of thought that if there’s something broken/not working great then it’s there to be fixed, I’m not sure why everyone is happy to assume that’s how XMLs are particularly when PP has proved it can take this framerate/speed problem into account, but only does so on retimed clips. Surely this can simply be applied across all clips rather than me having to trick the timeline into thinking all clips have been retimed.

DaVinci is designed not just for the highly trained colourist but also the independent filmaker like me who only sends out to a colourist when budget allows. Conforming is such a basic requirement you shouldn’t need pages and pages of pdfs to get it right. Rarely do things ever work straight away on a big conform but this speed/frame issue seems like it can and should be been sorted by now - and for me, it’s Adobe and PP that are to blame.

[Jim_Simon]

it hasn't been fixed in 5 years which I find simply bizarre

I don't find it that bizzare at all.  Like I said, Resolve handles frame rates fundamentally different that Premiere Pro does.  Blackmagic would likely have to change the underlying code for Resolve to make this work.  Given their target audience (Hollywood) who always works at a single frame rate, I'm skeptical of that happening any time soon.

[markg73620064]

I’m afraid I still completely disagree. Of course the final edit is to a single frame rate - I don’t know anyone who doesn’t export a project to the same frame rate? This issue is using footage in a project that conforms footage of multiple frame rates and there are many ‘Hollywood’ films that are shot with different frame rates initially and even use 2nd unit Dslr’s too that would have this issue.

When I have edited on ‘hollywood’ projects I have had this issue and had to use the workarounds I noted previously. And as previously stated, this issue isn’t with resolve, it’s adobe and PP xml export module.

Sent from my iPhone

[Jim_Simon]

Of course the final edit is to a single frame rate

Not just the final edit, but every media file in the project.

When Hollywood shoots at different frame rates, it's done for fast or slow motion purposes.  But the media file itself is still set to play back at the standard 24 fps.

You would probably have better luck if you created new media files with your frame rate changes baked in, set to play back at the normal fps for your project.

[markg73620064]

A massive range of cameras are used in Hollywood like everywhere else, and not all will conform in camera - in particuar DSLR's and I know Hollywood productions that have used 5Ds / A7Smk2 etc as 2nd unit and will have to conform in post to 24fps rather than in camera.

Forgive me if I sound a little frustrated by I have already explained all of the points you are making. Baking in the frame rate changes in post is literally one of the work arounds I described on my second message. The problem is this used to be alot easier when cinema tools was about and did this action instantly but cinema tools no longers works. AME wants to re-encode all footage to apply the new frame rate which is not great when you have lots of footage and takes up alot of time and space.

[Jim_Simon]

this issue isn’t with resolve, it’s adobe and PP xml export module.

I'm curious why you think so.  Speed changes in PP are essentially an effect.  My thinking is that Resolve just isn't understanding that effect.

[markg73620064]

As metioned earlier, the issue is with PP because it has proved it can take this framerate/speed problem into account when writing the XML but it only does half a job because it only takes the frame rate conform into account for retimed clips, the frame rate conform on clips with no speed adjustment will be ignored.

You can get the normal speed clips to be correct if you apply the correct frame rate conform to the clips in DaVinci before importing the XML then the none-speed effected clips will be fine but anyting will a speed adjustment will come in with a speed value that = speed adjustment applied in PP + any difference in frame rate.

e.g.

50fps clip (conformed to 25fps in PP) with no speed adjustment = 100% speed effect in davinci

50fps clip (conformed to 25fps in PP) with 50% speed adjustment in PP = 25% speed in Davinci which throws the timecode 50% out of whack.

...

The third potenital work around is not to conform any clips in PP, but simply apply the correct speed adjustment so that they match the timeline fps e.g. all clips at 50fps are retimed to 50% on a 25fps timeline rather than using the interpret footage method.

[markg73620064]

FYI - if you use the method of changing everything on the timeline to have optical flow so that PP recognises conform on all clips to import the sequence to davinci you should removed this once you get into davinci on any clips that shouldn’t have optical flow on as otherwise you may get some horrible results.

[forxxy]

It's a very standard process if you work in a professional post house or any jobs that have people know what they are doing. Basically you should never work with footage with different FPS, if your source media is like that, just transcode them to the correct codec before you start the edit. It's been like that for decades in post world. The popularity of premiere and other NLE programs make people think any program can process any codec and FPS, then guess what they cant!

[JeremyCastillo]

After importing an XML into resolve, I also bring along a reference file. I put the reference file on top of track of the timeline, and set the opacity at 50%, that way you'll see if things drift. If you have a drift, right click the clip and go to clip attributes, from there choose how to interpret the footage. Hope that helps.

[R Neil Haugen]

This is the only way to be sure you have the right ... action? ... down the sequence/program. It catches things like resizing and time-ramp issues also.

Neil

[wcamp15]

You completely fixed my problems. This being my first time trying resolve I was completely lost. Importing from premiere all I needed to do was right click the individual clips > clip attributes > change framerate for each one. Thank you so much. Fixed everything for me.

[elnarvideo]

I know this is an old post but I have spent months looking for solutions and I finally found it. Its a pain, but it works well and takes less time than manually adjusting each clip in DaVinci.

So I have a 23.98 timeline in Premiere with 23.98 footage and 60 footage.

When I XML to DaVinci, 23.98 match perfectly but 60 are off.

The solution I found is as follows:

1) Export XML from Premiere as 23.98 and import into DaVinci.

2) Color it ignoring the fact that some clips are off. Very important at this stage to use Remote grades, not Local grades. You can adjust clips to a rough position if needed for more accurate grade, but 60 clips will be replaced later in the process.

3) Before, during or after coloring (doesnt matter when) move all your 60fps clips to a different track. This is just so it is easy to identify them later on.

4) Once done coloring, go back to Premiere. Duplicate the sequence just in case. Now change the sequence framerate to 60fps and export another XML.

5) Import a new 60fps XML into DaVinci. You will notice that now 60 clips are fine but 23.98 are off. Thats fine.

6) Switch your grades for this timeline to Remote grades. Your grades from 23.98 timeline should transfer immediately. If some clips used multiple grades, you would have to manually show which grades you want. Its also a bit of a pain but not too difficult or time consuming.

7) Now, delete all 60 clips from 23.98 timeline and delete all 23.98 clips from 60 timeline (still in DaVinci)

8) Render each timeline using a Premiere XML Round Trip preset in DaVinci and make sure framerate for each render matches timeline framerate.

9) After rendering is done, go back to Premiere, import both new sequences and copy 60 footage to a 23.98 timeline. It matches perfectly and all is colored.

It seems like a lot but its actually quite simple. To recap all you do is color 23.98 sequence, then import the same sequence as 60fps. Delete clips that dont match timeline fps from both sequences. Render them separately and combine in Premiere.

I hope it can help some of you as it was driving me crazy. I frequently deal with mixed framerates from other editors that use Premiere and this is finally a solution that only takes about 10 more minutes than my regular workflow. Im happy now:)

[johns73022792]

Question: If the 60fps foortage is already modified/interpreted to 24 fps to fit the sequence. Do you need to revert the footage back to 60fps when duplicating the (24fps sequence) and changing it to a 60fps sequence?

[R Neil Haugen]

Try it you'll get a very quick answer. Sometimes duplicating a sequence then testing something is the fastest way to figure it out.

Neil

[Vatziuka]

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[BrownFish]

Ok. I had TREMENDOUS deviation from my timeline in Premiere vs Resolve and my XML export.

But  I figured out what was going on - thanks, in  part, to this post.

We invested HEAVILY into a NAS system to centralize the media and to allow our colourist to use the ORIGINAL footage files (rather than a flattened, recompressed version of the file) .  With this workflow we have to use proxies to edit with (original 4K and 8K footage is too heavy a task for most systems) . This means we cannot adjust the primary frame rate of the clip because Premiere's software isn't smart enough to apply the same frame rate interpolation to the proxies. (WHY???? I do not know.) So, as many editors suggested, we simply batch changed the speed of the source clips inside the bin. All the clips will now play at the intended slow but smooth frame rate. It's basically the same thing as a frame rate interpolation.

Except it isn't.

Because while the XML can tell the NLE what the adjusted frame-rate of the source clip should be, it doesn't have a clue you adjusted the speed of the source clip has been changed to.  The XML doesn't forward that intel.

This means for every future project rather than batch processing all my clips to play back at a different speed, I have to add the clip to my timeline first and then adjust the speed.

Or...give up exporting an XML that related back to the original footage, strip out all the LUTS, flatten the video, and then scene-detect the whole timeline either in Premiere or Resolve. (We prefer doing this in Premiere so we can break out the clips  different cameras so the colourists know which clips came from which cameras)

I have to say, both options suck

and all this is very avoidable if Premiere simply tweaked the code to tell the proxies to match the adjusted frame rate of the original footage.

Hello? Adobe????

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi @BrownFish,

Thanks for the note.

Hello? Adobe????

These are user-to-user forums with only some participation from the product team. To get their attention on this issue, please file a bug here.

Thanks,
Kevin

[R Neil Haugen]

Did you use Duration/Speed for speed changes?

That process does most often allow for creating and using proxies in Premiere.

[BrownFish]

Yes..in the source bin. I shoot a bunch of b-roll and want them to to playback at a slow speed and not have to do it in the timeline.