Premiere confuses files of same name

Engaged ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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I'm editing many VOB files from different DVDs in the same project.  Files from one DVD have the same files name as files from other DVDs, but placed in separate directories.  Not only does Premiere get completely confused when previewing the videos (playing video from a completely different sequence than the one selected with the play head), but it replaces the incorrect audio from wrong files when rendering... or drops the audio for certain VOB files entirely.

The only way to get Premiere to correctly reference the correct file placed on any sequence timeline is to pre-process all of my VOB files with Mpeg Streamclip, saving one large uniquely named VOB file per DVD, and importing that file into Premiere.

How is it possible that Premiere cannot handle files that have the same name?  This is beyond amateur.... Professional grade?  Really?  I'm having a hard time showing people at work that Premiere can be used in a professional environment.  I'm having to resort to using a decade old video converter (Mpeg StreamClip) to read and correct issues that Premiere completely chokes on.

Combined with the horrible extremely slow import bug that plagues large projects, and the decade old 'Unknown Error' encountered by many during export, Adobe is showing that their software is not professional grade and cannot be counted on in work environments.  But what choice do I have?  Sony Vegas became horribly buggy 5 years ago, pushing me to Adobe Premiere.  Avid Media Composer?  Software standards, with the advent of never-ending patches, have turned all customers into beta testers.  This is not acceptable yet seems to be the industry norm now. 

In 4 years of my CC membership, paying an average of $75 CAD/month, I've spent over $3500 to use Premiere. Adobe is repaying loyal customers with terribly buggy software that is only getting more and more buggy.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Importing using Media Browser rather than File > Import would likely fix the confusion within Premiere, however you may have to move or rename the current media folders, prior to re-importing media or the previous issue may follow along if working in the same project. NEW project should be okay just using Media Browser method.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera

Safe Harbor

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Engaged ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Sorry Jeff, but your suggestion is not relevant to my problem because I am using Media Browser to import these files.  And this is also a new project not created with an earlier version of Premiere.  I appreciate your suggestions but am tired of the black magic voodoo methods that many bring up to solve problems with Premiere.  How is it that different methods of import in Premiere DO NOT USE THE EXACT SAME CODE TO IMPORT?  And why is the mantra of avoiding project files created with earlier versions of Premiere so prevalent?  If Premiere is not backward compatible with old project files, then don't allow it to load them. Period.  Some form of half backward compatibility is completely misleading and a complete garbage policy by Adobe, which their marketing department seems oblivious to.  Either the CC suite is backward compatible or it is not.  Apparently, it is not.

Has someone flagged your response as the correct answer to make it appear that the problem I report is user error?.... as if using the 'incorrect' method of import is considered user error?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Have you tried trashing media cache?

FAQ: How to clean media cache files |Adobe Community

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LEGEND ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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You misunderstood - I never referred to projects made in previous Premiere versions. Was only saying that if the file naming issue exists in the current project, and you re-import those same files again into same project, Premiere may use prior linkages which would resolve nothing, thus using a NEW project (not newer version) or at least moving source files would provide a chance at a fresh start.

I thankfully have not run into the file link issue and wish you well in finding a resolution.

Thank you

Jeff

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Engaged ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Thanks Jeff.  No worries.  I understand that Premiere stores old metadata based on filename, which is also incredibly stupid.  Why would it ever assume that a file with the same name as a previous import is the actual same file.  A filename is just that... a name.  It doesn't indicate that a file is identical.

I'll try clearing the cache as Ann suggests.  This is also another of those black magic voodoo solutions that is suggested with every bug I encounter.  Caches should help the user, not hinder them.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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It doesn't appear that any answer has been 'flagged' as correct in this thread ... if you mean that green-star/text box thing, that's the button for selecting a post as a correct answer ... NOT indicating that post is correct.

I realize the frustrations at times with dealing with the Adobe products ... and those of really any other software provider. I was recently watching a discussion between a few editors who were lamenting that they primarily used PrPro because in their view it was less bad than FCP & Avid at the current time, which isn't a huge endorsement. "Less bad" is clearly not "I love this app!"

Still, it's good to have a moment to rant now and then. As I've done on more than one occasion, to be understating things a wee bit.

No, neither I nor any of the others posting on here can say why one method of importing is less reliable than another, or why say "simply" opening an older project file in a new version for PrPro's base "converting" process is often less than satisfactory while creating a new project and then importing the old project file is normally better. It would seem to be the same thing, right? But in reality, it ... ain't.

And that's what most of us that try and help around here generally work towards ... in reality, with the app working as it does, what's the best and quickest process to get someone's project out the door for them. "But why should I have to X!!!!!" ... well, probably a good point ... but all 'we' can do is help to get the work done.

And suggest filing bug/feature reports. Those are all distributed to appropriate program managers in a collated form. So they are seen.

Neil

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Engaged ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Thanks for the clarity on the Correct Answer button.  I should have realized when every subsequent post was labeled Correct Answer.

Whenever I do anything different in Premiere than I did before, I invariably encounter an issue.  Sometimes small, sometimes an issue that labels me as incompetent with my clients.

I rant on here, the forums, because I have NEVER ONCE received any feedback on a reported bug.  At least it allows me to vent my frustrations until the next roadblock I encounter.  I once had an in with one Adobe engineer in Utah, who helped me through another horrible Premiere bug that was causing incredible grief while I was editing a feature film.... maybe I should reach out to him again with this latest bug.... just don't have the time to do QA work for Adobe.... just a few minutes to vent.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Just some food for thought:  That you can edit the DVD-Video data structure directly in Premiere Pro is pretty amazing in the first place. 

Have you considered transcoding the VIDEO_TS data structure to DV-NTSC?  That will come in at 13GB per hour and should be easy enough to manage and PR handles DV-NTSC really, really well.

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Engaged ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Sorry Warren, but I'm not editing the DVD video structure from the DVDs directly.  I'm loading the DVD VOB files from the DVD into a unique folder on a local hard drive.  Premiere would lose it's mind if I tried to edit directly off of the DVDs (access times and such).  Also, I don't want to upconvert the mpeg2 VOB files into DV files.  That would increase the file size from approximately 4.6gb for the DVD to 26gb with no advantage in quality.

Premiere has no problem with editing the mpeg2 VOB files.  It's having problems with media files that have the same name.  I'm sure I'd get the same behaviour with identically named DV files.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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I did not mean to suggest that you were editing directly from a DVD-Video, just that Premiere Pro can edit the data structure which is exactly what you are doing.

Frankly, you are taking the hard road.

The DVD-Video data structure is the end of the workflow as the delivery format and keeps you using a format that was never meant for editing even though Premiere Pro can do so.

Converting it to DV-NTSC brings you back to an edit format.

There is a huge advantage in quality by converting from a long-GOP MPEG2 format to an inter-frame format like DV-NTSC.

If you insist on your current workflow, at the very least take the time to rename the VOB files.

-Warren

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Engaged ,
Dec 14, 2017 Dec 14, 2017

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Hi Warren,

I have to disagree that there is a huge advantage in quality by converting to DV from mpeg2(VOB).  Video can only be as good as it's source.  Sure, DV enables Premiere to parse through the video in both directions quicker, allowing for a smoother editing experience (at a cost of 500% the storage space!), but the visual quality of DV generated from mpeg2 is identical to the source file.   Premiere cannot add detail nor quality.  Any chroma sampling information added in the DV version is based on the original limited source.  Saying that converting mpeg2 to DV creates a huge improvement in quality is like saying that converting a 320x240 pixel camera video to a 4k ProRes444 file will make a huge improvement in quality.

And saying Premiere is editing the DVD data structure is not quite accurate.  I refuse to give Premiere so much credit with being able to read VOB files.    It can interpret a VOB file, which is a very strict version of an mpeg file.  It's just another file format Premiere understands.  There is no special structure related to multiple files that Premiere is 'editing'.  I'm dragging the VOB files onto a timeline.  Premiere does not understand the DVD structure and will actually place the VOB files out of order on the timeline if I don't select them in a very specific way.

Michael

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 15, 2017 Dec 15, 2017

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Actually, Mike, you bring up one great point.

I should have said, "There's a huge advantage in preserving quality and ease of editing by converting from a long-GOP MPEG2 format to an intra-frame format like DV-NTSC."  Another way to put it is this: Just because you can edit a video format in Premiere Pro, it doesn't mean that you should edit that format in Premiere Pro.

VOB files are indeed part of the DVD-Video data structure (as anything one finds inside of a VIDEO_TS directory is) and exist only for that format, accommodating the limitation of a 1GB file limit on a UDF formatted disc when authoring a DVD-Video title to DVD-Video specification.  A VOB is multiplexed picture and sound and Premiere Pro is capable of "demuxing" it, preventing one from having to demux elsewhere.  As far as playing VOB files in order goes, the only way to guarantee that is to play the DVD-Video data from a DVD player.  Going directly the VOB file(s) bypasses the "First Play" action, the Menu Space and Title Space, the picture stream settings, the audio stream settings, as well as any other GPRMs and SPRMs that control DVD-Video playback.

It's probably worth mentioning that if you use an application like DVxDVD Pro, the resulting DV-NTSC clips will play in the correct order as that app looks at how the DVD-Video title was authored.

I know you're just looking for an answer as to why your PR project is incorrectly linking to VOB files in different folders.  This could be something going on with your storage rather than Premiere Pro.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 15, 2017 Dec 15, 2017

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Hey, we all understand the need to vent occasionally. And I have certainly done so on numerous occasions!

As to feedback on bug reports, that's not something that is done by the Adobe teams. All bug/feature reports are collated and distributed to the managers on the appropriate development teams, so they are seen and quantified. Like many others, I've suggested both via the 'feature report' route and in person with the PrPro folks that come to NAB that a response of ​some​ kind, even auto-generated, would give a much better feel than the seeming thing of dropping your comments in a black hole.

They haven't seen the wisdom of my suggestion ... sigh.

Neil

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Engaged ,
Feb 12, 2018 Feb 12, 2018

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UPDATE:  I had to abandon using Premiere to edit VOB files.  Even after pre-processing multiple VOB files into 1 uniquely named VOB file with MpegSteamClip before injesting into Premiere, I was encountering a seemingly random sync issue where Premiere places video 12-14 frames too early in relation to the audio in exported MP4 files.  I haven't noticed any pattern other than it's either in sync or 12-14 frames pre-mature in relation to the audio.  This made using Premiere in a professional workflow unusable.  I've since gone back to an old but reliable tool, Handbrake.  Handbrake interprets the VOB files correctly, does a better job of deinterlacing than Premiere, and outputs video files that are always in sync with the audio.  The only drawback is I can't (easily) trim or zoom the video in Handbrake.  But audio sync is more important to clients than these other cosmetic tweaks.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 29, 2018 Mar 29, 2018

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vanlazarus2013  wrote

I had to abandon using Premiere to edit VOB files. 

I have to stress here: editing VOB files is not a professional workflow.

By using Handbrake to convert your files, you're essential doing what's been suggested throughout this thread.

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Advocate ,
Dec 16, 2017 Dec 16, 2017

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You could try assigning a unique ‘tapename’ for each DVD (set file & clip metadata to be linked too) - that way you can have Adobe use that when relinking (its normal approach of using filename and media start is what causes the issue - as they always match)

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 19, 2017 Dec 19, 2017

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I'm having a very similar issue since updating to CC 2018 (12.0.0 Build 224) on a Windows 10 64 bit machine.

We primarily shoot on two different cameras one of which resets the file number for every new card (making the first clip always 00000.MTS). I've never bothered keeping all the original hierarchy from how the camera saves the files as SAFEHARBOR11 suggested in this thread, but I've also never had an issue with this. I've also never imported the files through the media browser. All files are in a unique directory for each project and I thought that was enough. Now Premiere is pulling audio from a different clip of the same name and playing it, but not always (usually closing Premiere and reopening fixes it). When I'm in a project it's a bit of a gamble if Premiere pro will play the correct 00001.MTS audio for the project or if it will play the audio from different 00001.MTS

Based on what's said here there's no real fix other than just do things differently in the future to try and avoid this issue?

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Explorer ,
Mar 29, 2018 Mar 29, 2018

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I'm also occasionally getting this problem - where Premiere will link to the wrong file when the names are identical, but folders are different. It doesn't seem to bother it that the media start end or duration aren't the same!

I do try to rename clips according to date and time etc before bringing them into editing software, but I don't always remember to do it. Plus I only get this problem occasionally.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 29, 2018 Mar 29, 2018

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If you download CS6 you can edit vobs.

CS6 is less picky then CC.

You can even export them to dv avi to edit instead of using the mpeg files.

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Explorer ,
Apr 12, 2018 Apr 12, 2018

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Don't want to lose your post as I continue to read these entries because the same thing is happening to me.  If you've figured this issue and and it is not posted as I continue to read, perhaps you will share the resolution with me.

In the project pane, I delete references to files, delete the actual files on my hard drive, empty my trash, and then Premiere "finds" another file with the same name and relinks it thinking it is helping me.  Wrong.  Wish I could figure out how to turn this "helpful" tool off.

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New Here ,
May 23, 2018 May 23, 2018

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I had this problem today and spent 3 hours trying to figure it out and it's freekin nuts that I have to use this work around but I had to use Handbrake to convert the .vob files to .mp4 files and then they worked easily in premiere pro.    The conversion was fairly painless with 5 and 1/2 hours of footage converted in just under ten minutes.   This is clearly a bug that adobe needs to address immediately but I was able to do what I had to with a little bit of extra work.....baloney but hope it helps others in the same boat.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 31, 2018 Jul 31, 2018

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As mentioned by others here, this is not exclusive to VOB files. I have this issue with multi-camera/multi-card projects. I am importing the entire directory structure but when 00000.MTS is the common starting point for many cameras, it is likely we will have files with the same name. The video seems to convert to a sequence successfully, but somehow the audio track gets confused in PP. I understand because files can move that Adobe might link file names to help relocate files, but it should still understand that when they have not been moved or relocated that it should match to the original file and use cache files that somehow distinguish by more than file name.

If anyone figures this out, I'd love the answer. Otherwise I have to painstakingly rename each file manually.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 31, 2018 Jul 31, 2018

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"I am importing the entire directory structure "

Not sure what this means. Maybe I'm lucky, but this has never happened to me. Each SD card is copied in entirety to a unique folder on hard drive. Then in Premiere, importing is always done using Media Browser rather than File > Import. I think they is key to the issue perhaps.

Thanks

Jeff

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Advocate ,
Aug 01, 2018 Aug 01, 2018

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When I've been on long form with cameras that produce files of the same name (C0001.MP4 00000.MTS etc) then I've batch renamed those files before importing - generally appending the date in YYYYMMDD_ format, maybe with a unique identifier if that isn't enough.

Then there's not a reliance on the folder structure in relinking & it's clear from the clip name where the file should be.

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