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Premiere Pro CC Flickers after render--- client not happy

Explorer ,
Dec 12, 2014

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Hello I have been having a very annoying issue with Premiere pro CC 2014 (with the most recent update released in November, it also happened before the update). 

Certain portions of my video will flicker, but it only shows up after the render.  I can watch the video just fine in a sequence and it does not flicker.

I try re-rendering the project and the flicker will appear in a different portion of the video instead.  It is so random and I feel I have no control or ability to fix it

I have provided a video link to show the problem I am having.  This video is from different projects filmed in different lighting and scenarios, and different cameras. All of them have it.  The only thing they all have in common is that i used the RGB curves to bring up the blacks and adjust highlights.

Adobe Flicker on Vimeo

The footage was shot on the Panasonic GH3 and the Panasonic HMC150.  All filmed in 24ps.  I also am outputting the video in 24fps.  The examples in the video I have shown have all been saved in different formats such as h.264 for web, h.264 Blu-ray, and mpeg2-Bluray. It seems that the format does not make a difference it flickers either way.

It is also not lighting as it even happens outside in the sunlight, and if it were light flickering I would experience the issue on my camera while filming or at least see it during editing.  But it only appears after I render. 

I render using the graphics card Cuda engine 

Here are my computer specs

Windows 8

Intel I7 processor

Nvidia Geforce GTX 750 ti

8 GB ram

I have a similar issue with video flickering but it caused by applying an effect on an ajustment layer. If I apply the effect directly to each piece of video there is no flickering.

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Premiere Pro CC Flickers after render--- client not happy

Explorer ,
Dec 12, 2014

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Hello I have been having a very annoying issue with Premiere pro CC 2014 (with the most recent update released in November, it also happened before the update). 

Certain portions of my video will flicker, but it only shows up after the render.  I can watch the video just fine in a sequence and it does not flicker.

I try re-rendering the project and the flicker will appear in a different portion of the video instead.  It is so random and I feel I have no control or ability to fix it

I have provided a video link to show the problem I am having.  This video is from different projects filmed in different lighting and scenarios, and different cameras. All of them have it.  The only thing they all have in common is that i used the RGB curves to bring up the blacks and adjust highlights.

Adobe Flicker on Vimeo

The footage was shot on the Panasonic GH3 and the Panasonic HMC150.  All filmed in 24ps.  I also am outputting the video in 24fps.  The examples in the video I have shown have all been saved in different formats such as h.264 for web, h.264 Blu-ray, and mpeg2-Bluray. It seems that the format does not make a difference it flickers either way.

It is also not lighting as it even happens outside in the sunlight, and if it were light flickering I would experience the issue on my camera while filming or at least see it during editing.  But it only appears after I render. 

I render using the graphics card Cuda engine 

Here are my computer specs

Windows 8

Intel I7 processor

Nvidia Geforce GTX 750 ti

8 GB ram

I have a similar issue with video flickering but it caused by applying an effect on an ajustment layer. If I apply the effect directly to each piece of video there is no flickering.

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Dec 12, 2014

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Just in case this is a display card driver issue, can you try rendering a sample in software mode once? Definitely seeing the flicker on the Vimeo sample

Thanks

Jeff Pulera

Safe Harbor Computers

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Advisor ,
Dec 12, 2014

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You need to do a careful process of elimination by conducting an experiment.  That is, take a troubled sample of your edit into a new project and experiment with the following:

Render just the raw clip without any effects applied to your 24p setting -if it still flickers, that will rule out whatever FX you've already applied in the problem project.

Try rendering again with usual settings and this time turn "frame blending" on.

Try adjusting the Anti-flicker filter under the motion settings in the effects panel.

Try rendering out it to 29.97 from 29.97 sequence.

Apply the broadcast color filter, set to reduce luminance, and limit IRE to 100.

Turn off hardware acceleration and render in software.

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Dec 12, 2014 1
LEGEND ,
Dec 12, 2014

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What are your export settings?

Any third party FX applied to sequences?

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Explorer ,
Dec 12, 2014

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No just the RGB curves that is in Premiere Pro

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Explorer ,
Dec 12, 2014

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Okay so I tried rendering one of the small clips again, I made absolutely no changes and it rendered out just fine no more flicker.

This is fine for small clips (20 seconds)  but the issue is different for a larger video.

If I render a large video a second time the flicker will disappear from where it was originally, but then show up in a new spot that it was not in before!

It is a huge time waster to continually re-render all the time and hope it disappears. 

Safeharbor suggested to render software only, which I have done and still no different. 

I just recently got the new video card, in the video example I posted, some of the clips were rendered software only and others were with the video card.

My export settings are Adobes preset ones for youtube HD or for Bluray export, I don't mess around with the bit rate or anything else.

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Dec 12, 2014 0
LEGEND ,
Dec 12, 2014

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That is puzzling and that flicker is awful.

I have been exporting loads of H.264 ( basically Youtube presets) all week with none of that showing.

Wish I could advise.

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Advisor ,
Dec 12, 2014

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You say the flicker is random? That it only works on long clips, (short clips are not an issue).  That sounds like a hardware or some latency conflict outside the editor.  Run a latency checker such as DPC Latency Checker.  Latency issues will show up as abnormal spikes or hiccups.  If you have them, see if the periodicity matches the same as with the video (i.e. X cylces per second, etc).  Latency means conflicts either with poorly written drivers or resource conflicts (IRQ).

Are you using any third party capture cards?  If you have a raid card is it on the fastest lane?  Check for resource/IRQ conflicts, (http://www.helpwithpcs.com/upgrading/change-irq-settings.htm).  Open the device manager and change the view "resources by connection".  Twirl down the IRQ list to see what hardware components are sharing the same IRQ.  Specifically what your Raid (if you are using one) and the Graphics card are sharing with interrupts with.  Windows automatically assigns IRQs and sometimes you'll get a conflict where to heavy hitters have to share the same channel and conflict.  IRQs can be manually reassigned via the BIOS (but you better know what your doing).

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Explorer ,
Dec 12, 2014

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Wow okay I will give that a go. I would have never thought of that and I am not totally sure if I know how to do what you have described but I will try.

I do have my hard drives mirrored but not using a RAID.  I just use the windows 8 mirror drive option (which I am told is crap).  Both drives are the exact same brand name and size they are inside my tower connected through e-sata.  I purchase them together and then mirror them.

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Advisor ,
Dec 12, 2014

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Mirrored means that both drives are working together on the same files, but one is copying the other.  That's actually slower and not really the best option for editing.  Do you have your system on those drives, or is on a third drive, using a different buss?

Raid 0 (stripped volume) is much quicker and can be done via software in windows.  However, you'll lose all your data is one drive fails and should only be used for video.  Install your system onto a separate drive.

I use a RAID 10, which is both stripped and mirror.  It's four drives set up as two raid 0, where raid one copies the other.  Should one drive fail, I have a copy of the data on the other to recover from.  I have those on an LSI MegaRaid card, and with 6 GB data-rate, I have plenty of head-room for fast disk speeds.  (However, I do have two old Dells that still use a 2 drive RAID 0 via windows, and have not experienced any failures).  I tend to replace the drives after three-years of constant use to head off any failures.  I never fill them past the 50% mark, and always archive finished projects to an external drive.

When I built my latest machine, I ran into a hardware conflict with an AJA capture card.  I looked up the mobo spec and found both slots shared the same resources, so I move the card to another slot to correct it.  I also had issue with a sound card sharing IRQ with the USB ports.  Every time I plugged a drive into the USB port, I would experience audio glitches.  I solved that by disabling the card and using a USB Mixer that came with its own ASIO drivers.  In that case, I simply rolled with it (as disabling the USB was not an option for obvious reasons).  Think of your PC as a busy highway with lots of intersections and ramps, and the DATA as the vehicles.  You want to keep the fast devices in the fast lane and out of congested traffic.  Does that make sense?

If you do change your hard drive/raid configuration, copy your data to a storage drive first.

To recap:  At the very least, install your system onto a separate drive.  Use another drive just for video, and make sure that video drive is not sharing resources with slower devices.  If you want something faster, then use two drives for video in software RAID 0.  Still faster, use a dedicated RAID card to control them.

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Explorer ,
Dec 12, 2014

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Thanks for all your insight!

I have a separate drive for my operating system and just personal local files.

I then have 4 other hard drives, but 2 of them mirror each other.  I am a wedding videographer and we typically fill up 2tb over a summer wedding season.  I hold everyones footage for at least a year, so I end up getting new drives every 4-5 months, they don't really have a chance to get old. 

2 of my drives are in my tower.. but the other 2 are connected via an external docking station connected through a usb 3 connection.  I imagine that is not the best to have 2 drives running through 1 usb connection.  As you said it is like a highway and that sounds congested!

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Dec 12, 2014 0
LEGEND ,
Dec 12, 2014

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I can only say that Local internal drives properly configured have always worked for me.

I have tried the external docking station with my laptop on location recently.

The experience was not as smooth and efficient as my desktop system!

I even split it out to multiple USB 3 connections.

Nothing beats my internal SATA set up.

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Dec 12, 2014 0
Advisor ,
Dec 13, 2014

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+1 with shooternz.  USB is unable to run for long periods with issue.  If you require external drives due to lack of space in the tower or want something portable, I suggest you get an eSATA pci card use an external eSATA box.  I've been using ICY Docks (the bento EZ-Tray) for about 4 years now.  They are hot swappable and might be a good fit you.  This is how I cart projects from home to studio and in the field.  I use an eSATA PCMCIA card for the laptop.  One drive suites cuts only and light editing.  They also sell multi-drive bays that you use as a RAID, but I've done the same using two Docks and stripping via software -just don't remove the drives while active and label them as to which dock they belong.

Best that you get your system in order, take USB out of the equation before you revisit this issue.

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Dec 13, 2014 0
New Here ,
Jan 09, 2015

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Hi Matthew

I'm a total newbie to video shooting and editing, and having exactly the same problems as you. Most of the expert advice above is way over my head, so I was wondering if you managed to find a solution and if so, what it was?

It seems from posts on other forums this problem is widespread, and may have something to do with adding effects to the clips. I plan to conduct some experiments - render out without effects etc - to try to get to the bottom of it. But no-one I've encountered online has been able to resolve the issue.

I'm working from an internal hard drive with plenty of room, and loads of RAM on my machine. The problem only occurs with large files off my Panasonic Lumix GH4, with clips downscaled from 4K to 1080p. I'm not having any issues rendering clips shot on a GoPro 3+ , with effects added. Nor with clips off my iPhone - only the GH4.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

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Jan 09, 2015 0
Explorer ,
Feb 09, 2015

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Hey Dabram

The problem seems to be happening less for me now.. I don't have a clear solution for it. 

Now before I do a final render, I will pre render all the footage in the timeline.   For me the only time i have the footage flicker is when I add an effect, It never does it on just straight footage.  After the footage is pre-rendered I will then watch through to see if there is any flicker. If there is then I go to the effect and just make a tiny tiny adjustment to something.  That seems to get rid of the flicker.

I then render out the final video.  Watch again, if there is flicker.   Then I go back to that spot in the timeline and make a tiny tiny adjustment, and render it out again.

It is totally unacceptable that I have to do this, and is a big time waster when I have a schedule to meet.  I would appreciate if Adobe would fix this.

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Feb 09, 2015 0
New Here ,
Feb 09, 2015

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Hi Matthew

Since I made this post, I managed to talk to someone in Adobe tech support about this flickering problem, and, predictably, they suggested the root of the issue was lack of processing power in my computer (even though its specs fall well within the minimum cited fr Premiere Pro CC).

When I made further enquiries, my machine does indeed look well under spec for editing 4k video, and adding effects demands a lot more processing power. It's certainly very slow at every stage, from browsing media to playback and rendering, and can't draw on CPU Acceleration. And I don't think merely adding a bigger graphics card is the answer, as the processor needs to be beefier too.

There's no way of knowing without spending the money (a lot of it) to upgrade to a machine that's optimized for the job, but my guess is that Adobe are right. Why? Because the problems only occur when I'm using my Lumix GH4 camera, which shoots at 4k. Clips off other cameras render out cleanly with effects (albeit slowly).

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Feb 09, 2015 0
Explorer ,
Feb 09, 2015

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Hmmm okay, I am editing my GH3 footage which is not 4k.  But my computer is more than capable of handling 1080p footage.

I will have to keep searching i suppose

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Feb 09, 2015 0
New Here ,
Feb 10, 2015

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Interesting. So I can rule out 4K as the cause? Maybe not. Who knows. But yes, it's all very frustrating Adobe!.

Computer specialists I've consulted on this all say the same thing: to run the latest version of Premiere Pro CC smoothly, adding effects to clips, you need a top spec machine with lots of RAM (minimum 16GB), an Nvidia Geforce 970 card or comparable, and one of the most recent generations of processors, (to enable CPU acceleration).

The guy at Adobe as good as admitted this. Basically, the "minimum specifications" listed on their website are years out of date and wildly optimistic. Sure, if you just want to edit, and wait for ages for your clips to pre-render so they can be played back smoothly, then less powerful computers are fine. But once you start adding effects, the processing power required is immense - and significantly, this kind of work is being done by the processor not the graphics card.

I'm going to experiment with a high-spec machine and see if it resolves the problem.

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Feb 10, 2015 0